Parking brake holding up hill only!?!

[Fast Eddie B]

I have a 60 Plymouth with the push button trans and parking brake on the rear of the transmission.

On very gentle inclines, it is holding pointing downhill, but no holding when pointing uphill. Brake has no effect. Pretty odd.

is it just a matter of needing to keep tightening it? I think I am running out of room on the threads.

 

[Davea Lux]

I have a 60 Plymouth with the push button trans and parking brake on the rear of the transmission.

On very gentle inclines, it is holding pointing downhill, but no holding when pointing uphill. Brake has no effect. Pretty odd.

is it just a matter of needing to keep tightening it? I think I am running out of room on the threads.

The lining on the shoes is probably worn out, time to replace it.

Dave

 

[69PHOENIX]

Considering that it is 60 Years Old it may need a Little Maintenance!
New Shoes? (They do wear out Eventually) Maybe there's a Little Oil Contamination inside the Drum.
I'd Dismantle & Check it out. Maybe after all these Years the Drum & Shoes are Glazed.
Down Hill the Drum is Going to be Dragging Onto the Shoes?
Uphill it is going to be Dragging Off the Shoes?
After 60 years Metal will Fatigue.
An Old Friend decided to Rebuild the Poly 318 in his 65 Fury, Had the Block Hot Tanked Etc. When it came time to Tighten down the Main Caps the Sections that held the Centre Main Bearing Threads Pulled away from the Block. First time I have ever seen this Happen, But?
I'm Not Entirely Sure of the Next Statement as I'm Relying on 50 YO Memories, But as I Remember there is a Weird "W" Shaped Tension Spring
Inside the Drum. If this has Broken that may be the Problem. (I Think it is there to Keep the Shoes Preloaded? against the Drum)
Now I'm sure there are Bigger & Better Experts in this Forum than Myself, (None better Looking of Course LOL) So see what they have to say before following My Advice.
Just Hope I may have been Helpful.
Kind Regards Tony.M
(Oh! and be Careful if you do Decide to Dismantle the H/Brake as Things have a Tendency to go "SPROING" when you're Pulling something apart for the First time. Memories of Searching through Long Grass for Valve Collets when Attempting to replace Valve Stem Seals.)

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Time for a look. I’ll put it on the lift. Further to 69phoenix, anyone pulled one of these apart and have any tips?

 

[413]

Definitely odd. Not right. It it self energizing in both directions.

I just had one apart. Kind of tricky at first but not bad. There are no hold downs like on a 1963 and newer drum brake so it’s harder to assemble in the car. So I put both the shoes and the brake shoe return spring together on the bench. Put in the brake shoe operating leave link with the wide end on the right and it is stamped “ UP” on the lever. Leave the adjuster out. Then install them on the car by spreading the shoes at the top. There are 2 brake anchor shoe guide plates at top, put one on each side of the shoes. Leave those on the anchor pin. Next make sure the adjuster turns easily, spread the shoes at the bottom and install the adjuster. Last install the brake support grease shield spring. Get the adjustment close by removing the drum to adjust it tighter. Then install the drum and adjust from the access hole. It’s a bit hard to access the adjuster this way so that’s why you get it close first.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

That’s awesome. Thanks a bunch. I notice an oil seal for the output shaft. Ill be leaving it in the car, do I need to drain the transmission fluid?

Also, any thing to look out for when removing it from the car?

 

[413]

No fluid will come out. The seal is sealing on the shaft. If it has trans fluid in there then the rear seal is bad. Which is really bad because it’s hard to change that seal on the cast iron TF.


If anybody has a 1962 727 with the parking brake on the back of the trans like this then the output seal seals to the drum. No fluid will come out removing the drum on that one either.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Duh. I was thinking that backing plate comes off but it doesn’t. My bad!

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I was going to try adjusting first. Any chance you know how the inspection plug comes off?

it’s all metal.

 

[413]

That is a balance weight. The inspection cover is on the other side. 7/16” socket takes it off.

I highly recommend you take the drum off an Look inside at the brake first. No telling what you’ll see in there. Worn out shoes, issuing parts or coated with oil. Make sure it’s good before trusting it.


There is very little room to adjust it. The shoes are 2” wide so it looks like about 3” between the brake and the crossmember. It’s tight and hard to see in there.

View attachment 450266

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Funny, I had the tranny completely rebuilt. I don’t recall ever discussing the brake. For all I know it is brand new and was never set right!

while I’m under there I plan to pull it off and inspect. I thought a borescope in th adjustment hole might give me a sense of new or no pretty quick. I can’t have 500 mi on the whole car.

 

[413]

It is odd it works one way and not the other. That’s sounding like a problem and not just adjustment.

I would want to see inside and make sure it is assembled correctly.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Both worked till I drove it a mile or so on. Neither way worked till I tightened the cable. I feel like I am near the end of the cable now with just a little bite forward. Since there is an internal adjustment, I’m thinking it may not have been set right since rebuild - me again - and that might do it. In any event, it is up on the lift now. Next in line!

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Looks like I got the optional dual return spring set up.

Lots of pad life. Though they look a little old. Lots of room on the adjuster. I’m thinking I will just adjust the pads out a little and she what happens. what’s there was working.

 

[413]

Your brake cannot work how it is. LOOK at your brake and compare it to my photos and the manual.
Whoever fubared that up gets and F for the semester!
Good thing you took it apart.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

The adjustment nut is missing in the photo. I had that out.

All I see is the return sling missing with two bootleg springs instead.

I’m thinking I’ll swap out the pads and find a new return spring and put it back together.

 

[savoy64]

the old E brakes on the axle worked better at stopping forward than reverse-----notice newer cars with rear drum brakes have the E brake cables pulling in opposite directions? it gives a reliable stop in both directions.......remember there is a reason the leading pad is not the same as the trailing shoe....

 

[Fast Eddie B]

This principly is a p brake vs an e brake. It would work in an e, but it is needed to p every time you shut off the car or the car rolls away. My 47 caddy hydromatic you can leave in reverse when the car is parked, but this car is freewheeling in any gear when off.

 

[413]

OK Good you have the adjuster. Why swap the pads, they look new? Yes get rid of the top spring, if the tension is too much the shoes won’t self energize. Look how the spring it pulled too far and the coils are separated. If it’s pulling too hard then the needed to add the hold down springs to keep the shoes down.

I’d scrap all those wrong springs and get the correct ones that go to it.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I can leave the pads but I am looking for the spring now.