Pertronix Flame-Thrower Coil vs Ignition Ballast

[65SportFuryGuy]

The ignition system in my 65 Plymouth Sport Fury has a Ignition Ballast in the system running from the + side of Flame-Thrower coil to the Ignition Ballast. I have been told that the Ignition Ballast doesn't need to be connected to the Flame-Thrower Coil in the Pertronix I Ignition System because it hinders the performance of the coil. Is that right?

 

[GJS]

Thats right. You bypass the BR when using the Flame Thrower.

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

A ballast resistor is for limiting "current" to the coil primary windings. With a factory coil and no ballast resistor, the primary winding can get excessively hot to the point of coil failure. That is why the ballast is used, to prolong OEM coil life.

Many aftermarket coils are manufactured to run WITHOUT an external current limiting resistor (ballast). Some still require an external ballast resistor. You need to consult directly with Pertronix to determine whether a ballast resistor is required or not with your particular coil as I see they have at LEAST 5 different coils available.

 

[65SportFuryGuy]

Thank you gentlemen for your comments. I had already been thinking about doing that. I will contract Pertronix this afternoon and let you gentlemen know what they say.

 

[rapidtrans]

The instructions for my Pertronics and Flamethrower II stated to bypass the ballast resister.

 

[rexus31]

All you need to do is remove the guts from the ballast and solder in the same gauge wire as the harness. That way you retain the stock look, don’t have to run additional wires or cut the original wiring.

 

[Turboomni]

Just wondering for my own education. Wasn't the Ballast resistor used also to keep the points from burning and arcing at higher voltage too? Would it be correct to assume that the points were the problem first and then they designed a coil that would also work with this voltage?

 

[Davea Lux]

Just wondering for my own education. Wasn't the Ballast resistor used also to keep the points from burning and arcing at higher voltage too? Would it be correct to assume that the points were the problem first and then they designed a coil that would also work with this voltage?

The ballast resister was used both to keep the points from burning out and to limit heat build up in the coils. Ballast resisters began to appear with the introduction of 12v electrical systems. I suspect that it was more a practical decision to avoid having to re-design the coils for the higher input voltage. Most systems that used a ballast resister bypassed the resister to get higher voltage and more spark when the key was in the "start" position. When the key returned to the "on" position after engine start, the ballast resister was engaged and the voltage to the coil and points dropped.

Dave

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

Just wondering for my own education. Wasn't the Ballast resistor used also to keep the points from burning and arcing at higher voltage too? Would it be correct to assume that the points were the problem first and then they designed a coil that would also work with this voltage?

Yes, you are absolutely correct, they did prolong point life also. Points in the old ignition systems were the "switch" that turned the current on & off to the coil primary windings. Nowadays with the electronic ignition systems the orange box provides the switch (transistor switch) that replaces the points. I didn't mention points since most everyone now uses the transistorized ignition system.

And yes, the transistors can be damaged by too much current, just as the old type points could be. That's why there are 3 different control modules from Mopar Performance, orange, chrome, and gold. Each one has a transistor switch that is better than the previous one, handles more current and dissipates more heat. Also each progressively is able to switch on/off faster, hence they have a higher RPM capability.

 

[65SportFuryGuy]

Okay guys. Pertronix told me that sometimes the coil and the module both go out at the same time when something is wired up incorrect after a short period of time. I have checked the continuity on my wires and distributor cap and the coil wire. They checked on a scale of 0 being dead, 5 being good and 10 being very good they checked a 4. So I'm going a head a getting new wires and cap to be safe from Pertronix as well as new Flame-Thrower 40001 coil and a 1381A Ignitor module. Pertronix has also sent me a diagram showing the correct wiring. It shows the wire running from the Alternator Regulator to the positive side of the coil along with the red wire from the Module and the wire from the Ignition Ballast being removed. The Igniton Ballast remains for looks only and does nothing and stays wired to the IGN2 pin on the Ignition Switch. Well guys I'll let ya know how everything works out.

 

[Turboomni]

Looking forward to your report.

 

[65SportFuryGuy]

Well gentleman. As of my last post dated Dec 10, 2017 I have received my new wires and cap to be safe from Pertronix as well as a new Flame-Thrower 40001 coil and a 1381A Ignitor module. Pertronix has also verified the drawing that I made of how the wiring should be. They sent me that wiring diagram back showing the wiring diagram was correct.

Well last week I finally got the time to install everything and the wiring done correctly. And guess what it still will not fire. The engine will turn over and over but will not fire and start running. I have sat down and looked over my wiring diagram again and again. I don't know why I didn't notice this before.

The wiring diagram shows a wire running from the FIELD side of the Alternator to one side of the Alternator Regulator then a wire runs out from the other side of it to the IGN pin on the ignition switch. Now there is a wire that splices off that wire close to where the wire comes out of the Alternator Regulator. Now that wire goes to the + side of the coil.

Where before it went to the Ignition Ballast which is now completely out of the circuit. It's just there for looks but one side is still wired to the IGN2 pin on the ignition switch. According to Pertronix the Ignition Ballast still being wire to the switch doesn't affect anything.

You only have the Alternator, Alternator Regulator, coil and the ignition switch in this circuit.

I know that when you turn the switch over to start, the engine starts turning over, the Alternator generates power to the Alternator Regulator to the + side coil and the IGN2 pin on the ignition switch and the engine fires off and starts running.

What are the chances that it's the Alternator or the Alternator Regulator. How do I check them to see if they're good

 

[stubs300]

When I did mine, I just wired everything back up as stock and not had a problem. So many people have told me that I need to bypass the ballast, I say B.S! I've been running this way for over 15 years.
You don't mention if you've upgraded you Reg. or not. I hate those little black boxes, they are POS! Hope this helps? Good Luck
charging system overview

 

[65SportFuryGuy]

You ask if I had upgraded my Reg or not. I have not. Didn't know that I need to. I have attached a drawing that shows the old wiring which is the one on bottom and the new wiring on the top for your review. I looked at the charging system overview and found it very interesting. My system falls into Diagram # 1. But it doesn't show what I have. The bottom drawing matches what I have and it matches my wiring diagram. I have also discovered that the battery could be part or the problem having a low charge. Not being able to turn the engine over fast enough to generate the voltage to cause the coil to fire. So now I'm thinking Battery, Alternator and Regulator Regulator needs to be tested.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Alternator is not making power on starting circuit. You need to splice in power to regulator not the field wire. Get power from the wire that goes into the dead ended ballast resistor. This is why following Scott's advice about gutting the B.R. and not cutting the O.E. wires is better.

 

[65SportFuryGuy]

Check out the drawings I was posting as you were replying to my Thread. The top drawing is how Pertronix told me and verified my revised drawing on how to revise my wiring to get the best result with there conversation ignition system. I was partially wrong about the alternator. I know that it charges the battery which I really did know and powers the electrical system. And the alternator regulator or voltage regulator which ever one you want to call it operates by modulating the small field current to produce a constant voltage to the battery terminals. I'm thinking now that the battery could be the problem or the alternator is bad or both needs to be replaced.

 

[65SportFuryGuy]

Well this afternoon guys I checked the battery. I used a mulitmeter to check to see that if the battery was good or bad. The test meter gave me green and the battery tested good at 12.23 volts with no load on it. I guess I need to check the battery voltage with the lights and heater fan on before I make my discussion about buying a new battery. Then I moved on to testing the Alternator regulator. I removed the connectors from the IGN side and the FIELD side and checked between the 2 pins for continuity which would tell me that Alternator Regulator is good and got the buzzer telling me that it was good. Now how do I check the Alternator with my mulitmeter with it still on the car and not running.

 

[stubs300]

I think your going to have to remove it and have a parts store test it. I know of no other way? Good Luck

 

[78Brougham]

This post is more proof as to why I stick to the Mopar Electronic Ignition system developed in 1972 and made standard in 73'.

No offense...

 

[BillGrissom]

Pertronix makes several kits. Of the ones which fit inside your factory points distributor, the original Ignitor required keeping the ballast, Ignitor II & III should remove the ballast (to get full 12 V). Was there one termed "Ignitor I"? Reason is electronic advances. The original Mopar electronic ignition (~1971) used simple transistor control and didn't limit "dwell" (coil charging time). Similar to points, the coil and transistor would overheat at low rpm (as would points) without a ballast. Aftermarket kits (Ignitor, Crane Cams XR700) were similar. The first to limit dwell was the GM HEI module (~1980). Chrysler's equivalent was within the "spark computer", aka "lean burn" in some models. Ford's TFI is similar. Many A-body guys use the GM 8-pin HEI module & coil (85-95 V-8 trucks) to upgrade from points cheaply.

To bypass the ballast, I use a little male-male spade adapter to connect the 2 connectors. As mentioned, many hide in a factory ballast by soldering a 14 awg wire in place of the resistor. Often, engine bay wires are old and brittle and need total replacement, so now is the time.