Power steering pump pressure from '58 to '62 and later

[Chrome58]

Hello everyone,

During the course of my '58 Plymouth restoration, I replaced the original power steering box (Constant Control) with a remanufactured later model. I do not know exactly the year, but as the casting number begins with "21...", I'm guessing it might be from the early '60s.

Ever since the end of the restoration, I have had problems with the power steering : vibrations in the steering wheel, noises, and the sometimes fluid squishing out of the reservoir cap (from the safety hole). And the hose that feeds the power steering box is always vibrating (it's a NORS hose with the correct "large-then-narrow" profile).

I tried the usual suspects : belt tension, power steering box adjustment, ... but the problem is still there. So I'm beginning to wonder if the '58 power steering pump is correct for that later power steering box.

Was there any increase/decrease in the pressure needed by the power steering box (and delivered by the pump) during those years ?

Thank you.

 

[cbarge]

How long/how many miles you have been driving it like this?

When I put my car on the road,after being restored,it was the first time since 1974 it was driven and it took almost a week of driving for the pump to settle down with the same symptons you described. I had no problems since.

I did jack the front and turned the wheel lock to lock several times to get rid of the air in the system. It will puke out and burp and grunt.

I would first check out the valve on top of the steering box for any blockages or dirt.
hope this helps

 

[Chrome58]

How long/how many miles you have been driving it like this?

I made about a 1000 miles with it since the end of the restoration.

I would first check out the valve on top of the steering box for any blockages or dirt

Are you talking about the valve body that can be positioned up and down on the steering box ?

 

[cbarge]

With a thousand miles the issue should have worked itself out.
So yes the check valve at the box.

 

[Davea Lux]

Hello everyone,

During the course of my '58 Plymouth restoration, I replaced the original power steering box (Constant Control) with a remanufactured later model. I do not know exactly the year, but as the casting number begins with "21...", I'm guessing it might be from the early '60s.

Ever since the end of the restoration, I have had problems with the power steering : vibrations in the steering wheel, noises, and the sometimes fluid squishing out of the reservoir cap (from the safety hole). And the hose that feeds the power steering box is always vibrating (it's a NORS hose with the correct "large-then-narrow" profile).

I tried the usual suspects : belt tension, power steering box adjustment, ... but the problem is still there. So I'm beginning to wonder if the '58 power steering pump is correct for that later power steering box.

Was there any increase/decrease in the pressure needed by the power steering box (and delivered by the pump) during those years ?

Thank you.

The '58 pump should have a maximum pressure with the line blocked of about 750psi. Working pressures are quite a bit less. By the early sixties (1962), maximum pump pressures are higher in the 1100psi to 1200 psi depending on if the pump is a Federal or a Saginaw unit. I suspect that the later steering gear is probably not getting adequate pressure or fluid flow from the older pump. As noted, any air bubbles should have cleared themselves after 1k in mileage. Second issue, what are you running for power steering fluid?

Dave

 

[Chrome58]

The '58 pump should have a maximum pressure with the line blocked of about 750psi. By the early sixties (1962), maximum pump pressures are higher in the 1100psi to 1200 psi

Ah ha! ... That's what I suspected.
I will have to check the casting number and see what year the steering box is from.
And find a later power steering pump if that's indeed the case.

Second issue, what are you running for power steering fluid?

I'm using ATF fluid (Dexron III, I think). But I have bought last year a specific power steering fluid, but not used it yet.

 

[Chrome58]

So I did a little research using parts books and interchange manuals, to check what Davea Lux said.

The power steering box that came with my '58 has the casting number 1733596. The one I have bought remanufactured has the casting number 2127061 or maybe 2121061 (difficult to tell from under the car). Being casting numbers, it's not possible to find an exact application, but we can assume that the casting numbers are close to the parts numbers used in the year of their application. It's an assumption, but that's all we have.

If we look at the part number of the power steering assembly (chuck) over the years (chart below), we see that the power steering I had with the car was probably correct for a '58 application, and we see 2 different applications that might fit the remanufactured one : '59-'64 Imperial, or '62-'64 Plymouth/Dodge, the latter being the closest one in part number to the casting number. I'll assume it's that one.

The interchange manual is of course confirming this, as it lists two separate interchange possibilities : '58-'61 Plymouth and '62-'64 Plymouth.
However, it's different groups for the power steering pumps : '58-early '60, then late '60-'64.

Moving on to the service manuals, the '58 Plymouth one list the maximum pressure of the power steering pump at 750-900 psi.

And that's were I'm stuck. I have not found a '62-'64 Plymouth/Dodge service manual, so I cannot check what's the pump pressure for the latter power steering. I was able to look at a '63 Chrysler/Imperial service manual, and found that the pump pressure was 1150-1300 psi for the 2122032 power steering. Which might be close to the specifications on the 2127010. Or not.

If someone here has access to a '62-'64 Plymouth/Dodge service manual, please let me know.
Thanks.

 

[Davea Lux]

So I did a little research using parts books and interchange manuals, to check what Davea Lux said.

The power steering box that came with my '58 has the casting number 1733596. The one I have bought remanufactured has the casting number 2127061 or maybe 2121061 (difficult to tell from under the car). Being casting numbers, it's not possible to find an exact application, but we can assume that the casting numbers are close to the parts numbers used in the year of their application. It's an assumption, but that's all we have.

If we look at the part number of the power steering assembly (chuck) over the years (chart below), we see that the power steering I had with the car was probably correct for a '58 application, and we see 2 different applications that might fit the remanufactured one : '59-'64 Imperial, or '62-'64 Plymouth/Dodge, the latter being the closest one in part number to the casting number. I'll assume it's that one.

View attachment 351715

The interchange manual is of course confirming this, as it lists two separate interchange possibilities : '58-'61 Plymouth and '62-'64 Plymouth.
However, it's different groups for the power steering pumps : '58-early '60, then late '60-'64.

Moving on to the service manuals, the '58 Plymouth one list the maximum pressure of the power steering pump at 750-900 psi.

And that's were I'm stuck. I have not found a '62-'64 Plymouth/Dodge service manual, so I cannot check what's the pump pressure for the latter power steering. I was able to look at a '63 Chrysler/Imperial service manual, and found that the pump pressure was 1150-1300 psi for the 2122032 power steering. Which might be close to the specifications on the 2127010. Or not.

If someone here has access to a '62-'64 Plymouth/Dodge service manual, please let me know.
Thanks.

www.mymopar.com has them for free download. Tools/Reference section from the home page.

Dave

 

[Chrome58]

www.mymopar.com has them for free download. Tools/Reference section from the home page.

I've already looked there before.
Unfortunately, they are missing the '60-'64 Plymouth and the '61-'64 Dodge ...

 

[Polara_500]

How about this one?
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/mtsc/159.pdf

I didn't read it, just the headings but looks promising.

 

[Polara_500]

And another, again, just a quick scan of topics so no surety.
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/mtsc/225.pdf

 

[Chrome58]

Thank you, plenty of useful information there !
Alas, not the one I'm searching for.

The 159 is from February 1961, so it's before the models of '62-'64.
The 225 is from August 1966 and covers a lot of models, but does not give precise pressure information.

I've looked at other Master Technician booklets, but to no avail.

EDIT : Interesting stuff here also : Power Steering Pumps. Especially this : "Both styles of pumps regulate pressure with shims and a pressure relief spring. You can alter the pressures by altering the number of shims in the flow control valves. The Federal pump must be dis-assembled and the valve is on the back of the pump body itself."

 

[Davea Lux]

I've already looked there before.
Unfortunately, they are missing the '60-'64 Plymouth and the '61-'64 Dodge ...

They have the Chrysler ones and they use the same pumps.

Dave