Subframe tightening?

For ‘68 there are no bushings, washers or spacers between the stub frame (or whatever you want to call it)and the unibody. Support the car as if it was on the ground. Wheels or suspension loaded. Check the torque of the nuts and bolts. 75 foot-pounds. If they are tight you may have other issues. If they are loose then the torque wrench will do its magic.

Pictures from a ‘68 Polara. Should be the same as yours.

If the nut on the bolt going through the floor is loose you will need to peel back your carpet to hold it.

These are at the end of your stub on left and right sides.
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These are the pair that go up to the firewall/ cowl area. L and R sides.
View attachment 220654

Also check your transmission cross member bolts as they add side to side rigidity.
View attachment 220655
Ok, I’m not going crazy... as clarified by your pics of your painfully clean stub frame and floors.

I’ve only pulled two stub frames in my life: one was a 69 Sport Fury and the other a 72 New Yorker. I have however looked at a good many and my 67 and 68 Monacos were just like yours... I was sure a 68 Fury would be the same with regards to the isolators.

I’m still very confused as to what would make a front end droop the way the OP describes but I guess I’ll just stay tuned.
 
Loose, missing bolts on the Stub frame, compromised (rusted) Unibody structure, or compromised (rusted, improperly modified) stub frame are the three options.

Start with the easy things like loose or missing hardware. The stub frame and unibody properly connected should form a very ridged structure.
 
imagine driving your c car with no nose it. hit a speed bump with the front wheels at 20 mph. IF the sub frame buckles where will it occur? just ahead of cowl attaching points. that's what unit body is all about. all the body and frame components have to be present, sound, and attached correctly to make the overall structure of the vehicle rigid.
 
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I have dealt with a lot of C bodies from all over the country, and I have yet to find one that has a bad stubframe that droops in the front so much that it would alarm me, even a few with pretty rusty stubframes.

I still maintain that what AF. is seeing is an optical illusion (I guess no one understood my previous comment). When you lower the stubframe onto the jackstands (i.e. after it first touches), many people might think that when lowering the jack further the front end should not seem to sag any (or only slightly) further. But that is not the case. The front end will appear to be sagging because as you stand at the front of the car and lower the jack, you do not see that the rear end is coming up as the weight is lifted off the leaf springs and the weight of the engine rotates the whole car around the jack stands a little, so that the front end seems to sag. It is not sagging, it is rotating down. If AF. is a relative newbie, he might not realize that.

I do not subscribe looking for the worst possible solution before eliminating the easy answers.
 
Wondering if there might be some hidden rust in the innards of the cowl area? From accumulated leaves or dirt that didn't get flushed out or similar? Which might compromise the strength of the cowl area of the body? Just a thought.

When I was driving our '66 Newport all of the time, I never saw the front sheet metal shake or move. ONE stiff "piece" of the total car.

By contrast, when my '77 Camaro was new, once I got into a wash-board section of road, at an "uncomfortable" speed for the car on it (like 35mph) and as the front suspension did its thing, the front sheet metal also went up and down. I thought I'd broken something! It visibly moved. This was new to me, at that time. The people I asked about it in the GM Dallas Parts Warehouse referred me to another guy I finally got to talk to. "Normal". I thought . . . GM doesn't know hot to build a decent Unibody car, compared to Chrysler.

What was happening was that the insulators on the sub-frame rails were allowing the sub-frame to move a bit. Even just a littke, amplified over 4 feet gets to be very visible when it happens. ONE reason for the bolt-on braces from the fender to the core support area, it seems. When the '79 Firebirds came out, the WS-6 option cars, they included some small braces that went from the lower control arm mount area to a place on the sub-frame rearward of them. The turbo cars had a different one to clear the turbo outlet pipe. All bolt-on deals. I added those to my Camaro and it made the front end stiffer, still. An improvement.

When we got the '72 Newport, I liked the quieter ride and suspension isolation, which came at "a price" in potential sheet metal movement on rough roads, by observation. My '70 Monaco, with the shorter fenders than the Chrysler, doesn't seem to have any deflection issues.

Do NOT take anything for granted! Re-check the torque on ALL body bolts that hold sheet metal items to the front "frame" area of the car. Period. Do this with the car on a dead level paved area. A drive-on alignment rack would be best, I suspect, as it's got to be calibrated "level". Jossle the suspension a few times for everything to reach it's normal level and stress. Then start at the front and move rearward, or vice versa, and tighten EVERY bolt/nut you can get a socket/wrench on. I did this on the '72 Newport, at the recommendation of a Popular Science magazine artlcle on squeaks and rattles, after the first oil change (3000 miles). I came in one weekend from college and did this one Saturday morning. The build torque on many of the fasteners could be "firmed up" with another 1/4 turn, but usually less. When done, I was surprised how more solid everything was! Almost to the level of the '66 Newport I'd done the same thing to over the years (after I got my first Craftsman socket set one Christmas).c

Now, additionally, almost all metal structures have some panel mounting deflection built into them, as a matter of course. IF it doesn't bend a bit, it breaks over time. As in "stress cracks". "Solid" is not really solid, but sometimes more than others.

In a vehicle body structure, body-on-frame or UniBody, there are places that are designed to flex a bit as other places are not designed to flex. First deflection area is the suspension, then the body mounts. Putting urethane in the place of rubber in some suspension locations, pushed the former deflection in that area farther down the line ultimately into areas where flex is not desired OR designed to be. Especially on the vehicles designed before 1990 (or thereabouts), for example. "Designed" not "built", that is.

To me, on a street-driven vehicle, especially one that can see some "dirt road" action, polyurethane bushings might be fine for the upper control arm rubber, but not the lower control arm rubber. On a sub-frame car, polyurethane on the lower body mount insulator, but not the matching top half of the insulator unit. Take some deflection "out", but still allow for decent sound insulation characteristics. Race-only non-street vehicles can probably use polyurethane where ever it can be, by comparison.

Think about it this way, on engines which use a solid metal motor mount on the side of the block, torque reaction can cause the side of the block to crack and break. Whereas the OEM rubber (restrained with a cable, if needed) will not cause any issues in this area. One reason that the "motor plate" or "elephant ear" mounts work best in race cars where deflection is not desired.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 
This is a great discussion, thanks for all the replies. saforwardlook - that makes sense....the back of the car rotating up as the load changes from the jack (under the cross member) to the jackstands. I never really thought to check just how much the rear is coming up. I will check this.

However, I still think something is amiss. It just seems like way more "droop" using the same jacking method than when I first got the car (20 years ago...ugg). As mentioned, I did (successfully? haha) launch the car over a median once. I'm sure it didn't do the car any favors. I'll pull the car apart completely before I get serious about installing the cage, midplate, etc (which will set everything in stone). In the famous words of our old toolmaker: "we shall see."
 
I’m changing my sub frame on my 70 dodge Monaco….torsion ride frame or isolated frame..what is the best way to change the frame considering I don’t have a hoist ?
Thanks. Dennis
 
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