WTH!

[tbm3fan]

Yep, completely black inside and the connector broke into pieces. Now I have to think were I can find connectors that handle 8 gauge wire. In all the stores recently for fusibles I never saw anything larger than 10 gauge. Even on line 8 gauge is mainly limited to butt and ring terminals.

Just cleaned it up. Checked continuity from one end to the alternator and got a tone. Checked from the other end to #16 and got tone. Push the two ends back together and checked from alternator stud to #16 and got tone. As it sits that connection is complete but needs to be better for driving.

 

[Big_John]

The OEM has 12 gauge brown while the new replacement has a 12 gauge gray fusible.

Never saw one like that, but if it works, that's great.

Just ran across another melted connector internally. This one is literally glued together. Large black wire in and out so it doesn't look like a link. Rest of wire disappears into the loom. I'm thinking this wire is off the alternator and heading to the ammeter??? Think it is the R6D-8BX on page 8-129. Short stubs to work with here. Still trying to pry it apart but have just have to crush it.

I think that you are right on that circuit.

 

[tbm3fan]

Was unable to do a drop voltage check at #16. The rubber plug is soft and pliable, not to mention filled the entire hole, that I couldn't forcefully push anything into it to make a connection. Paper clip maybe went in 1/16" at most. I did pull my fuse box inside to find that all the connections behind were in perfectly clean shape. Also saw the slot #28 is empty on my car and #25 has a 10 gauge black wire in it. Easy on the inside since the slots were numbered.

Sadly I am out of time after today. Will have to hot wire the car to drive it to it's new location and maybe get back to it later in the second half of June.

 

[tbm3fan]

Was on the car early this morning while I wait for my brother to come over to see if I should junk a perfectly good car, other than the noise, which would be the Sable wagon.

I am confident that all issues in the engine compartment have been taken care of. I know I am getting 12.6V down to the bulkhead connector and into the other side.

What I noticed inside was a few things and one dramatic.

First, while in key "off" I turned the lights on and the needle for alternator did not even budge towards discharge. Pushed in the lighter and it worked. Tried the horns and they did not work.

Second, the first time in "acc" I checked the radio and it worked while the alternator needle did not move. The second time I was going through from "run" to "acc" to see about the horn which didn't work in "run", "on", or "off". However, when I went to "acc" to check the horn I saw peripherally the alternator needle JUMP all the way to the left for discharge. That sounds like a big time short. Quickly went to turn off the key and caught sight of a little whiff of smoke coming out of the turn signal opening in the column. It was there and then gone. This was the second time in two days that the alternator needle did that out of many tries turning to "acc". First notice of smoke. Obviously I'm not going into "acc" again. Although it sure looks like the alternator gauge works.

Going into the column that deep doesn't seem like an easy job for the ignition. What burns wires in the switch? What am I going to see? Is this even repairable or replaceable much less today?

 

[tbm3fan]

So investigating more about how the wiring runs it seems I have learned this. Power comes in via pin #16 to the Master Splice. From there two wires go to the fuse panel and pretty much power up all the circuits. I do have power to all the systems inside except the horn. I read that the horn was tied into the ignition switch itself though. Then two more special circuits split from the Master for headlights and ignition.

Duh, duh, duh!!! I have a relay in place for the headlights so they draw power directly from the battery terminal of the relay. That is why the amp gauge didn't respond and the radio doesn't draw enough to make it respond. Obviously there is power in the ignition wire since going into "ACC" makes things go funny or dangerous. Who has dived into the column of a later model Fusie to replace an ignition switch which might be where this is headed... I think?

 

[Big_John]

Ahh... You are letting the smoke out. This isn't good.

On the surface, it sounds like there's a short in the column somewhere. It's possible it's the ignition switch... You did mention that you thought there was a problem and that is why you using a remote starter.

The column isn't all that hard.. although the anti-theft wheel lock junk can get a little tough to get back together. More than one car is running around without that stuff being put back in. The FSM is really your friend here.

I am worried though that the problem isn't there, but that's the weak spot that's burning from the short.

 

[tbm3fan]

Well it is what I have so far. Have looked over all the wiring in the engine compartment. Found some typical hot spots and repaired them. Found some to be in unexpectedly pretty good shape such as the bulkhead connectors. All of those were cleaned and before putting together put some dielectric grease, not on the blades, but around the perimeter of the block to seal out moisture. Same on all fusible link connectors they are sealed from the elements unlike factory.

Inside section of the disconnect is very clean with no hotspots. Fuse box is very clean and all fuses still intact. All wiring under the dash seems in order with no burns other than the white connector from years before except battery power which is cleanly connected. Doesn't seem like many spots left to look at.

As for the switch if I remember correctly after a few months of getting the car it wouldn't start in start. Only crank and crank. Getting out the multimeter I saw no volts at the coil when in start but volts when in run. Put on remote starter, put ignition in run, and car started right up. Never got into loking further than that but that was in the early years of having a Mopar. I just didn't know what I was getting into electrically with a Mopar. Now I do. It's a learning curve. Imagine trying to sort this stuff out without the internet today and not knowing the gremlins that lurk below the surface like most Mopar owners didn't know. With the cars 45-50 years old!

Just ran the car once more to sit and watch. Started up fine with the jumper between batt relay and coil +. Ran it 20 minutes and saw temp gauge working. Also notice radio, which didn't work in "off" with no key, now works with no key but car running. Have to note for maybe two years when I took the car out for a drive and got on surface streets the car would shut off once every trip. No issues on freeway but once off and stopped at a light the car would die but then start right back up. Never on the same light going after a few minutes but coming back after 45 minutes.

 

[Big_John]

All of those were cleaned and before putting together put some dielectric grease, not on the blades, but around the perimeter of the block to seal out moisture.

At last! Someone else that understands dielectric grease! Thank you!

s for the switch if I remember correctly after a few months of getting the car it wouldn't start in start. Only crank and crank. Getting out the multimeter I saw no volts at the coil when in start but volts when in run. Put on remote starter, put ignition in run, and car started right up.

This is pointing towards a bad ignition switch being all your problem.

Also notice radio, which didn't work in "off" with no key, now works with no key but car running.

Again, that's a back feed from you putting power on the coil. The current flows back to the accessories from the coil, just like it would flow from the ignition switch to the coil.

I think that also tells you that the problem is at the ignition switch or in the feed to or from it.

 

[tbm3fan]

Now onto getting a new ignition switch. Mopar one or aftermarket? I'll need to locate the part number for a Mopar piece.

 

[rags]

not going to read back through the whole thread, but if his hot at all times (batt) leg in his fuse box has loss of power issues also, it's not going to be from a bad ign. switch. mentioned an ammeter by-pass? maybe it wasn't done well. no power loss at highway speeds could be from running on alt. as only power source. at lower speeds the alt. wouldn't always keep up with demand. interesting thread. ever consider using a basic test light for this type of diag? makes life alot easier.

 

[tbm3fan]

So I got the new ignition switch hooked up and there was good and bad. For the last three years I have been starting the car using a remote starter inside the car after placing ignition in "run". Some said it might be the ignition switch. Well, it isn't.

The car now starts in "run" using the remote starter because it still won't start in "start". In fact, as before, while there is 12v to the coil in "run" there is 0v to the coil in "start".

Back to the wiring diagrams to see if I can find there obviously different reason if I can.

 

[Big_John]

You need to follow the brown (ign2) wire down the column and out through the bulkhead disconnect and check for power at every connection. I believe there is the connector on the column, the bulkhead disconnect and then a connector under the hood.

I really apologize if I lead you into changing the ignition switch prematurely. Every issue that you described pointed to the switch being the culprit. In hindsight, I should have not assumed and had you check for power at these points before going through this.

 

[cantflip]

You need to follow the brown (ign2) wire down the column and out through the bulkhead disconnect and check for power at every connection. I believe there is the connector on the column, the bulkhead disconnect and then a connector under the hood.

I really apologize if I lead you into changing the ignition switch prematurely. Every issue that you described pointed to the switch being the culprit. In hindsight, I should have not assumed and had you check for power at these points before going through this.

It's really tough trying to figure out diagnostics via internet... you give very good advice Big_John.

 

[commando1]

It's really tough trying to figure out diagnostics via internet...

I've more or less given up trying to troubleshoot problems in the forum.
Best I stay out of it and let those with a ton of patience help the member out.
And Big John is one of the best at it.

 

[tbm3fan]

You need to follow the brown (ign2) wire down the column and out through the bulkhead disconnect and check for power at every connection. I believe there is the connector on the column, the bulkhead disconnect and then a connector under the hood.

I really apologize if I lead you into changing the ignition switch prematurely. Every issue that you described pointed to the switch being the culprit. In hindsight, I should have not assumed and had you check for power at these points before going through this.

Don't concern yourself with that. Remember the car wasn't responding to the ignition switch at all. Plus the switch, upon removal, was a little split and the springs inside a little askew. Now the switch responds in ACC and RUN. I'll be tracing the path of the brown wire later today.

 

[roadcuda]

i helped a fellow out with a 69 charger last year and he had the amp gauge feed wire come loose under the dash too.
So wiggle away!

I second this as something to check. I had a problem with the '64 Barracuda I had. There was little or no power going to the starter. after a lot of looking around I found the wires loose on the amp gauge. Tighten them up, problem solved.