tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
Or since the female connectors are still on the main battery cable I could get some 14 gauge male bullet connectors to put on the fusible link and just plug it in. Might already have some.
WTH!
- Thread starter tbm3fan
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There's no reason you can't use a quality bullet connector there. Just be sure it fits very tightly.
But isn't that a female spade connector on your new cable?
But isn't that a female spade connector on your new cable?
tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
Not any more. Better two bullets rather than one bullet and one spade on either end.
See, I had that new cable for years and by having something happen and talking about it I can now use it. Before I thought there was something special about the OEM way I had and wondered how I could ever get the cable in and voila.
Hopefully the car starts...
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
No, I grabbed that from one of your posts.You Googled "old man in hat" didn't you...
Funny thing about it is that I have a hat like that.
tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
Things just got way more serious with only 3 weeks to go.
Link in, power at relay pole, but no power anywhere else in the car. No lights, no hazards, no radio, no power at fuse box. Doesn't matter if ignition is OFF, in ACC, in ON or at START. Fuse box and fuses fine. The only way I could turn the starter over was with a remote starter clipped in and that worked fine.
Link in, power at relay pole, but no power anywhere else in the car. No lights, no hazards, no radio, no power at fuse box. Doesn't matter if ignition is OFF, in ACC, in ON or at START. Fuse box and fuses fine. The only way I could turn the starter over was with a remote starter clipped in and that worked fine.
This makes me wonder if there's some problem that made your fusible link blow.
tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
Looking at the wiring diagram I see that A1B-10R comes off the same relay pole and travels to the bulkhead disconnect slot 28. That seems to be the only entry point for power directly into the car.
Bizarre as the car ran during transmission check. Then turned it off. Got out my portable tire compressor to fill tires. Power from cigarette lighter while all interior lights were on with an open door. Finished, packed up the compressor, and then went in to start the car. First time it turned over but I just knew it wouldn't start. Backed off for a second and then when tried again noticed no dash lights and that was it.
Oh, I have been using a remote starter from inside the car as I have found that the ignition switch won't supply a full volts at start. Was told that to R&R the switch was a real pain i the *** so the remote starter with the key at RUN. Wouldn't matter as you don't need any of that to simply turn on the lights.
There is also a 10 gauge wire with a 14 gauge fusible link going from the alternator output stud over to the relay pole. So no serious amps going in through the bulkhead connector.
Bizarre as the car ran during transmission check. Then turned it off. Got out my portable tire compressor to fill tires. Power from cigarette lighter while all interior lights were on with an open door. Finished, packed up the compressor, and then went in to start the car. First time it turned over but I just knew it wouldn't start. Backed off for a second and then when tried again noticed no dash lights and that was it.
Oh, I have been using a remote starter from inside the car as I have found that the ignition switch won't supply a full volts at start. Was told that to R&R the switch was a real pain i the *** so the remote starter with the key at RUN. Wouldn't matter as you don't need any of that to simply turn on the lights.
There is also a 10 gauge wire with a 14 gauge fusible link going from the alternator output stud over to the relay pole. So no serious amps going in through the bulkhead connector.
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tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
After another couple of hours I now know two major wires go through the bulkhead and up to the AMP gauge. Clearly I am going to pull the bulkhead connectors tomorrow to get a look at them. Clearly, I am going to completely bypass the AMP gauge as in the MAD description and then bring the wires out to connect to the relay as described.
Based on the diagram I saw it would seem the problem is with the 10 gauge wire from the alternator going into the disconnect. It is supposed to supply power to the ignition, lights and fuse box via the welded splice. If damage at the bulkhead then no power to go inside and get distributed by the welded splice. That is what I am thinking right now.
I do wonder if I can bypass the ignition switch and take power from the relay post directly to the + side of the coil? It happens to be a Pertronix II with 0.6 ohm coil for a direct 12V application. If the car could only move 20 feet into it's slot things would be so much easier. Right now besides blocking cars the left rear quarter is slightly out in the street. Probably try a jumper from relay to coil tomorrow and see what happens.
Based on the diagram I saw it would seem the problem is with the 10 gauge wire from the alternator going into the disconnect. It is supposed to supply power to the ignition, lights and fuse box via the welded splice. If damage at the bulkhead then no power to go inside and get distributed by the welded splice. That is what I am thinking right now.
I do wonder if I can bypass the ignition switch and take power from the relay post directly to the + side of the coil? It happens to be a Pertronix II with 0.6 ohm coil for a direct 12V application. If the car could only move 20 feet into it's slot things would be so much easier. Right now besides blocking cars the left rear quarter is slightly out in the street. Probably try a jumper from relay to coil tomorrow and see what happens.
You have a lot of things going on. I wouldn't do any mods until you find the issue. Adding more wires without finding the issue may complicate the problem. If nothing else, it's just a bandaid.
The MAD mod is already done, except for bypassing the ammeter, and I don't think that's the problem.
First, let's get the car moved. Yes, a jumper to the coil and then use your remote starter to start and move the car.
IMHO, there's some gremlin in the electrical that got worse when the air compressor was used. You are having other issues, like the voltage problem at the ignition switch (which may not be the switch) and that tells me that the problem has been there for a while.
So... Let's start at the battery and work back... and, I'm sorry, but I don't remember what year Dodge you have.
Check voltage at the battery first. You may need to know this later. Since the engine turns over with the remote starter, chances are the battery cables are good and you've just replaced the + cable. Check the - cable anyway.
I'd double check the fusible link too. You might have burnt it out again.
I would start with the bulkhead disconnect. Make sure it's all clipped in and tight before you touch it. Look in the FSM and figure out which is the feed from the battery and disconnect it. Some guys are going to tell you to pack it with dielectric grease at this point, but since that is an insulating material, you don't want to introduce that into the mix.
Check the terminals for corrosion. I used red Deoxit to clean them. You might be able to get that at a well stocked electronics store.
From there, you are really going to need the FSM and start checking the wiring going to the ignition switch etc. When I know the year of the car, I'll try to follow along.
You may have to start figuring out what wire(s) or connection(s) are giving you trouble. Simple voltage checks may or may not tell you. Here's a video on voltage drop that may help if the problem doesn't easily present itself.
The MAD mod is already done, except for bypassing the ammeter, and I don't think that's the problem.
First, let's get the car moved. Yes, a jumper to the coil and then use your remote starter to start and move the car.
IMHO, there's some gremlin in the electrical that got worse when the air compressor was used. You are having other issues, like the voltage problem at the ignition switch (which may not be the switch) and that tells me that the problem has been there for a while.
So... Let's start at the battery and work back... and, I'm sorry, but I don't remember what year Dodge you have.
Check voltage at the battery first. You may need to know this later. Since the engine turns over with the remote starter, chances are the battery cables are good and you've just replaced the + cable. Check the - cable anyway.
I'd double check the fusible link too. You might have burnt it out again.
I would start with the bulkhead disconnect. Make sure it's all clipped in and tight before you touch it. Look in the FSM and figure out which is the feed from the battery and disconnect it. Some guys are going to tell you to pack it with dielectric grease at this point, but since that is an insulating material, you don't want to introduce that into the mix.
Check the terminals for corrosion. I used red Deoxit to clean them. You might be able to get that at a well stocked electronics store.
From there, you are really going to need the FSM and start checking the wiring going to the ignition switch etc. When I know the year of the car, I'll try to follow along.
You may have to start figuring out what wire(s) or connection(s) are giving you trouble. Simple voltage checks may or may not tell you. Here's a video on voltage drop that may help if the problem doesn't easily present itself.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
I'll start with the simple stuff first. Pulled all four external blocks to take a look. Blue corrosion on the blades but not one was burned. Used some 600 grit sandpaper and cleaned every single one of those blades. Sprayed Deoxit on them and then went to work on the female side of the plugs. Used small folded pieces of 600 grit and probed every slot. Sprayed Deoxit and pat dry. Pushed the blocks on and off a couple of times. Hook up the battery and check the "B" post on the relay and have 12V.
Now things get strange. I pull the block with the 28 slot that is suppose to contain a 10 gauge red wire. Mine contains a 10 gauge black wire. There is suppose to be power here going into the interior. Well there is no power. The next thing that hits me is the the "B" post is suppose to have two 10 gauge red wires on it. One from the battery and one to slot 28 as per the 1973 Polara manual schematic page 8-129. I don't have the second red wire to slot 28 listed as A1B-10R???
The "S" post, below, is suppose to have two wires also. S5-12BR from the alternator which I seem to have but with a yellow tracer. I do not have S5-18BK. The two spade connections below are present and accounted for.
Alright let's get the car moved back into place. I put a 12 gauge jumper wire from the "B" post to (+) coil. Definitely power as there is a little spark when clipping the jumper to "B" post. Go into car to place key in so I can place ignition in "ON" to unlock the steering wheel. Right away, before I do that, the "OIL" light is on. Only it. Move to "ON" and still the "OIL" warning light. What the heck let's go to run and bingo all power comes on. Interior lights, radio, and externals. up with that? I'm routing power, via jumper, to coil (+) and it is some how getting into the car? Or is some going in the original way via alternator to ammeter even though I have the bypass in place. I don't know but this is escalating beyond my pay grade for electrician work.
Of course, the car started in the "ON" position without a problem using the remote starter. Got it into position, got out, and pulled the jumper from "B" post to stop the engine.
Now things get strange. I pull the block with the 28 slot that is suppose to contain a 10 gauge red wire. Mine contains a 10 gauge black wire. There is suppose to be power here going into the interior. Well there is no power. The next thing that hits me is the the "B" post is suppose to have two 10 gauge red wires on it. One from the battery and one to slot 28 as per the 1973 Polara manual schematic page 8-129. I don't have the second red wire to slot 28 listed as A1B-10R???
The "S" post, below, is suppose to have two wires also. S5-12BR from the alternator which I seem to have but with a yellow tracer. I do not have S5-18BK. The two spade connections below are present and accounted for.
Alright let's get the car moved back into place. I put a 12 gauge jumper wire from the "B" post to (+) coil. Definitely power as there is a little spark when clipping the jumper to "B" post. Go into car to place key in so I can place ignition in "ON" to unlock the steering wheel. Right away, before I do that, the "OIL" light is on. Only it. Move to "ON" and still the "OIL" warning light. What the heck let's go to run and bingo all power comes on. Interior lights, radio, and externals. up with that? I'm routing power, via jumper, to coil (+) and it is some how getting into the car? Or is some going in the original way via alternator to ammeter even though I have the bypass in place. I don't know but this is escalating beyond my pay grade for electrician work.
Of course, the car started in the "ON" position without a problem using the remote starter. Got it into position, got out, and pulled the jumper from "B" post to stop the engine.
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Yep, that blue corrosion is the enemy.
It's a little too late for me to look at my 73 FSM, but I'll look at it first thing tomorrow.
Yep, that would be right. The best way I could explain it is with a real simple drawing. What you have done is jumpered the break in the circuit and now the whole circuit is "live" again.
OK... Something hit me and I had to look.... With the 65 amp alternator, I see a DBL fusible link going into the 28 slot. Page 8-148, figure 17. If that's what you have, I'll bet that's fried too.
The S5-18BK is a wire that runs to a distributor solenoid that is noted "400 engine". Nothing you need here.
I've seen some minor glitches in wiring diagram. As long as S5-12BR is a #12 wire and it goes to the starter, you're fine.
I'm glad you got her moved... I've been checking on this one, but didn't have anything very useful to add... Big_John is an excellent resource, so unless I had something I felt was overwhelmingly important, I didn't want to muddy the waters for you.
The positive I see in all of this hassle is you are cleaning and inspecting connections that needed it. If you follow up the repair, when finished, with a few voltage drop tests... you can be reassured that you got all of your corrosion problems under control.
tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
Too bad I don't have much time left to deal with it. Maybe half a day at most after which I'll have to drive the car with the bypass I used to move it out of the way. I wish the schematic and what I see on my car matched. Manual says red to relay and then red to #28. I have red to relay and black to #28. Where did black come from or did it change somewhere is that large group of factory taped wires below the relay? This clearly seems to be in this area where the problem is as there should be power at connector #28 but there isn't.
On the other hand when I route power directly from the relay post to coil (+) it seems power also flows down the brown wire, at the coil, and into the cars ignition switch at "run" giving me full electrical power. So there is some sort of break between the relay post and #28. The schematic below is a cross between it and the one in my manual. Both show two wires off top post while I have one on the relay. My manual show two off the smaller post below, while this one shows one and my car does have one.
I think that black wire is the dark blue wire with fusible link that is part of the 65 amp alternator package as I stated above. I could be wrong.... and/or it's just that red wire has been replaced with a black wire.
I'd do a simple continuity test on that wire first and if it shows continuity, you can do a voltage drop test on that wire.
tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
This is interesting as I did it tonight. There is continuity between the red ring terminal at the relay and the battery terminal as expected. There is no continuity between the red ring terminal and #28. However, there is continuity between #28 and the 10 gauge brown wire on the smaller stud. There is also continuity between #16 and the ring terminal of the brown wire.
Pictures below. The larger stud has the red wire, the fusible link bypass, a direct wire to power the relay for headlights, and black wire (blue) for the remote starter. All were pulled off before the test. Smaller stud shows a black wire (blue) for the remote starter and the 10-12 gauge brown wire per the manual. The wire off the alternator looks 8 gauge black. Another picture shows that large wrapped junction in the wire loom. What is hiding in there? Last the manual show three connectors at the bulkhead and my picture shows four.
That diagram for the 65 amp alternator doesn't match what I see. I have no terminal blocks which shows up between the battery and relay. This diagram also shows no fusible link in the line at all. In fact none of these diagrams make sense of what I see on my car.
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The brown wire goes to the starter. 8-129, fig 14. The FSM I have shows this should be brown.
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