New Member, New Polara

And finally is there anyway to tell if the AFB and manifold is original spec or not? QUOTE]





The intake manifold will have a number, 7 digit I think, cast into it. And check for a number stamped into the forward facing surface of the right front carb mount lug. OR, look for a triangular tag on one of the float bowl attaching screws. Post them and we can figure out if they are the correct ones.
 
Been gone a while, busy with work and buying more projects I don't need

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Can't really afford it, nowhere to put it, too many projects to deal with it, had to have it. Also technically it's a mopar so i guess it's not off topic. Now to learn to drive an unsynchronized transmission.

On topic however, i've had some time to think about what to do about Big Blue. The front stub is junk, but that's an easy fix. But the rear stub is not great.

I've realized how and why it failed. What's weird is that from the rear seat forward, the body is mint, no issues whatsoever. But from the rear seat backhead rearward, it's a disaster. This is really peculiar behavior, with every weld on every structural gusset failing.

My grandfather had a big motorhome style gravel skirt on the rear of the car for ages, with which he drove every crummy dirt backroad in BC, including Yellowknife in the dead of winter. I suspect what happened was that this caused a turbulant air to form in that big pocket, which swirled dust, dirt and all sorts of crud around, and it could only settle on top of those gussets, such as the open flange pocket that supports the leaf springs. It's also worth noting that that skirt was taken off the car in the 90's, so I suspect it had been driven around in this condition for at least 15 years. As stubborn a car as my grandfather, that's for sure.

I've been seriously studying the frame, and I've come to the conclusion that the gussets can be replaced, and that the primary rails themselves are still very solid. But that the spring hangers in the rear are beyond repair. The springs are all done, driveshaft needs repair/replacing, exhaust system is done etc. And the front stub needs replacing entirely.

Even before I saw the car again, I'd quietly decided that if I can save the car in it's original condition, I would. But if i had to throw out the majority, I wouldn't mind hopping it up some. But I'm in the position where basically the entirety of the structure and running gear needs to be replaced. I can easily repair the body and retain the driveline, but everything else is junk.

Prolink Rear Suspension for A, B, C, and E-Body Dodge, Plymouth, Mopars

And then i found this.

A 'bolt on' 4 link kit that bypasses the leaf springs and relegates all weight bearing to the main rails themselves.

e0356d2a1269a256a79f5a5ede0632ed.jpg


I've always loved trans am cars. Making the most unlikely cars into proper handling touring cars. I'd always toyed with the idea of building a car in that style, but modernized. Specifically including a 4 link setup.

I'm in the position where I don't have the tools/experience to fabricate or transplant a new rear frame. But I have a relatively cheap kit to transform the rear suspension into a serious 'modern' performer, which will be order of magnitude cheaper than having a shop replace the entirety of the rear of the car, merely to get back to stock functionality.

I'm left in this weird place where it actually makes more financial sense to turn the wagon into a proper fire breather than it is to merely repair what's there. So as much as it might gall purists, I think Big Blue's getting the full conversion treatment. It's all gotta go anyway, might as well make it something special.

My battleplan will be to save up the money I need, have a bodyshop sandblast the underside of the car, make new wheel wells and replace the 3rd row footwell, and paint/undercoat the bottom of the car. And i'll take it home and do the rest myself. I suspect all in, that'll be cheaper than having a shop merely sort out the rear alone, which still leaves the rest of the car to repair.

I'll leave the interior and exterior unaltered, as i want to preserve the character of the car. And as much as it hurts to rip up, it has to be done. And imagine having this big old innocuous 'dad car' that'll eat a ferrari for breakfast in the corners.

So there you go, Blue's fate has been decided. She'll live again, better than ever.

Most of her, anyway.
 
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Go for it man. If that's what's needed to save it, then that makes it all worth it. I inherited my C body from my grandpa as well (funny enough, I had to bring from the Island to the mainland, kinda an opposite journey of yours), you do what you have to do. Beside, a corner carving old man wagon with a four barrel 383 sounds like a dream come true. Hope it all goes well, and you're staying safe in these crazy times.
 
Go for it man. If that's what's needed to save it, then that makes it all worth it. I inherited my C body from my grandpa as well (funny enough, I had to bring from the Island to the mainland, kinda an opposite journey of yours), you do what you have to do. Beside, a corner carving old man wagon with a four barrel 383 sounds like a dream come true. Hope it all goes well, and you're staying safe in these crazy times.

I mean the sunshine coast is technically the mainland too so hey.

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Just for fun i doodled up a 3d model of the car to test out areo ideas on a slightly stylized model i had lying around already.

Probably won't do that but i like the degree of heresy it's got going on, though the slab side skirts suck. But the model's stylzied so that curve is way deeper than the real thing. When it's time to get serious we'll see if it's actually fast enough to justify active areo or not, and if so i'll make a more accurate model to experiment on.

Looking at it, for a really cohesive design i'd have to get another bumper and cut the bottom off and extend that planar section down more into the splitter, and sweep the chamfered corners down along to be paralell with the rocker.

I'm 100% going oval side pipes though. I'm all about that.

Come to think, I know some monacos had rear wheel skirts, but i've never seen a polara or a wagon with them. Is that something i can just slap on? I really like the "giant slab of death" look which skirts are a requirement for.
 
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I don't know if the rear wheel opening on Dodge Polara/Monaco wagons is the same as sedans/2 doors. They may not fit because in 64/66 Chrylers the skirts do NOT interchange - the Chrysler wagon's wheel opening is shorter, in part because the Chrysler wagon's overall wheelbase was shorter than the Chrysler sedans and 2 doors in those years.

The Dodge skirts were made in both factory and aftermarket versions, so perhaps there was an aftermarket wagon version if it turns out the size is different.
 
I have a couple sets of aftermarket (Foxcraft) skirts for 65/6 Polaras if you get there and want to play..........
 
Alright it's go time on Big Blue. Getting a pretty solid job now so I'll have the money to go hog wild on this thing pretty quick.

So I'm starting to make a parts list for the war wagon. My goal isn't some specific racing class or something, but I want to build a car that's outwardly a dull dad wagon but can hang with new sports cars like the F type, so some serious power is in the cards. And I'm thinking of a serious but mundane motor. Heads, cam, manifold, headers, strong valve train, maybe a 440 crank, stock pistons etc, and a balancing so i can really reach top end power with only 3 gears. No fantastic H beam rotating assembly, no nitro ready pistons, no one off cnc heads or whatever. Serious but off the shelf stuff.

Performer RPM 421 HP Top End Kit for 1968-79 Big-Block Chrysler 383 Engines

I was looking into head/cam combinations, and i keep seeing the "1968 up" tag. I know windsors and XK6's back to front but I'm still learning mopar, is this a piston to valve clearance issue or something, or was there some more serious change done to the motors i'm not aware of?

Also are there any solid/proven combinations I should look into? I'd like to make 400 at the wheel with strong midrange torque, with the figures raised appropriately with the bigger crank. Not a world ender, but still as much power as one could ever practically use in anger.
 
Alright it's go time on Big Blue. Getting a pretty solid job now so I'll have the money to go hog wild on this thing pretty quick.

So I'm starting to make a parts list for the war wagon. My goal isn't some specific racing class or something, but I want to build a car that's outwardly a dull dad wagon but can hang with new sports cars like the F type, so some serious power is in the cards. And I'm thinking of a serious but mundane motor. Heads, cam, manifold, headers, strong valve train, maybe a 440 crank, stock pistons etc, and a balancing so i can really reach top end power with only 3 gears. No fantastic H beam rotating assembly, no nitro ready pistons, no one off cnc heads or whatever. Serious but off the shelf stuff.




I was looking into head/cam combinations, and i keep seeing the "1968 up" tag. I know windsors and XK6's back to front but I'm still learning mopar, is this a piston to valve clearance issue or something, or was there some more serious change done to the motors i'm not aware of?

Also are there any solid/proven combinations I should look into? I'd like to make 400 at the wheel with strong midrange torque, with the figures raised appropriately with the bigger crank. Not a world ender, but still as much power as one could ever practically use in anger.

The pre '68 383 engines had closed chamber heads and the pistons have a different pin height. The push rods and lifters were also different but if you are rebuilding the engine and installing an after market cam, you will be replacing all that stuff anyway. At this point, it is not really practical to re-machine the 440 crank to fit into your 383 given the many aftermarket stroker kits available The after market rotating assemblies are a mated installation that will not usually require a lot of additional balancing. They have the added benefit of being high tensile steel that is pretty rugged.

You need to sit down with a competent engine builder and have him spec the engine to the horsepower and rpms that you want. Also keep in mind that building the engine for a performance upgrade will also usually require a heavier cooling system, a higher stall speed on the torque convertor, valve body modifications on the transmission and heavier clutch pates and bands in the transmission. For a pure performance build, you should consider starting with a 440 engine as you already will have the additional cubic inches needed for more horses.

Dave
 
The pre '68 383 engines had closed chamber heads and the pistons have a different pin height. The push rods and lifters were also different but if you are rebuilding the engine and installing an after market cam, you will be replacing all that stuff anyway. At this point, it is not really practical to re-machine the 440 crank to fit into your 383 given the many aftermarket stroker kits available The after market rotating assemblies are a mated installation that will not usually require a lot of additional balancing. They have the added benefit of being high tensile steel that is pretty rugged.

You need to sit down with a competent engine builder and have him spec the engine to the horsepower and rpms that you want. Also keep in mind that building the engine for a performance upgrade will also usually require a heavier cooling system, a higher stall speed on the torque convertor, valve body modifications on the transmission and heavier clutch pates and bands in the transmission. For a pure performance build, you should consider starting with a 440 engine as you already will have the additional cubic inches needed for more horses.

Dave

Yeah for sure. I'm trying to keep it at least somewhat low buck/grassroots, as well as retain as much of the stock car as i can, so tracking down a new 440 is out of the question. Plus they're hard to come by around here and i'm at least pretending it's a street car. I'll do a bill of health on the trans to see what shape it's in when the motor comes out and yes, I was going to buy one of those direct fit cold case radiators if the stock one couldn't keep up. Probably going to be a mopar of Thesyus style build anyway.

That explains the date cutoff though if it comes with different valvetrain stuff though, thanks. Gonna seek out a local mopar guru, i could build a mean windsor with my eyes closed but i'm picking up the basics on the B team here.

Edit: well, speak of the devil, guess they do come up.

 
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Prolink Rear Suspension for A, B, C, and E-Body Dodge, Plymouth, Mopars

And then i found this.

A 'bolt on' 4 link kit that bypasses the leaf springs and relegates all weight bearing to the main rails themselves.

View attachment 417015

I've always loved trans am cars. Making the most unlikely cars into proper handling touring cars. I'd always toyed with the idea of building a car in that style, but modernized. Specifically including a 4 link setup.

I'm in the position where I don't have the tools/experience to fabricate or transplant a new rear frame. But I have a relatively cheap kit to transform the rear suspension into a serious 'modern' performer, which will be order of magnitude cheaper than having a shop replace the entirety of the rear of the car, merely to get back to stock functionality.

I'm left in this weird place where it actually makes more financial sense to turn the wagon into a proper fire breather than it is to merely repair what's there. So as much as it might gall purists, I think Big Blue's getting the full conversion treatment. It's all gotta go anyway, might as well make it something special.

My battleplan will be to save up the money I need, have a bodyshop sandblast the underside of the car, make new wheel wells and replace the 3rd row footwell, and paint/undercoat the bottom of the car. And i'll take it home and do the rest myself. I suspect all in, that'll be cheaper than having a shop merely sort out the rear alone, which still leaves the rest of the car to repair.

I'll leave the interior and exterior unaltered, as i want to preserve the character of the car. And as much as it hurts to rip up, it has to be done. And imagine having this big old innocuous 'dad car' that'll eat a ferrari for breakfast in the corners.

So there you go, Blue's fate has been decided. She'll live again, better than ever.

Most of her, anyway.[/QUOTE]

That Prolink setup is very impressive.
I always wonder a little bit though, with these suspension kits, and disk brake kits; we are very trusting and assume these are engineered properly and have good quality control in manufacturing. I am not aware there is a standard that these aftermarket parts have to conform to.
 
Prolink Rear Suspension for A, B, C, and E-Body Dodge, Plymouth, Mopars

That Prolink setup is very impressive.
I always wonder a little bit though, with these suspension kits, and disk brake kits; we are very trusting and assume these are engineered properly and have good quality control in manufacturing. I am not aware there is a standard that these aftermarket parts have to conform to.

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I trust it more than this. And the car was driven reguarly for at least 10 years like that.

Cut and weld until it is done.


Oh yeah, I'm hunting stub frames. And I'm unclear on if '69 stubs are ok for this car or not. I know '70 up they went with the soft mounted stubs that differed significantly, but I've seen evidence either way for the '69's. If anyone knows (or has one to sell me on this side of the universe) i'd appreciate that
 
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Prolink Rear Suspension for A, B, C, and E-Body Dodge, Plymouth, Mopars

And then i found this.

A 'bolt on' 4 link kit that bypasses the leaf springs and relegates all weight bearing to the main rails themselves.

View attachment 417015

I've always loved trans am cars. Making the most unlikely cars into proper handling touring cars. I'd always toyed with the idea of building a car in that style, but modernized. Specifically including a 4 link setup.

I'm in the position where I don't have the tools/experience to fabricate or transplant a new rear frame. But I have a relatively cheap kit to transform the rear suspension into a serious 'modern' performer, which will be order of magnitude cheaper than having a shop replace the entirety of the rear of the car, merely to get back to stock functionality.

I'm left in this weird place where it actually makes more financial sense to turn the wagon into a proper fire breather than it is to merely repair what's there. So as much as it might gall purists, I think Big Blue's getting the full conversion treatment. It's all gotta go anyway, might as well make it something special.

My battleplan will be to save up the money I need, have a bodyshop sandblast the underside of the car, make new wheel wells and replace the 3rd row footwell, and paint/undercoat the bottom of the car. And i'll take it home and do the rest myself. I suspect all in, that'll be cheaper than having a shop merely sort out the rear alone, which still leaves the rest of the car to repair.

I'll leave the interior and exterior unaltered, as i want to preserve the character of the car. And as much as it hurts to rip up, it has to be done. And imagine having this big old innocuous 'dad car' that'll eat a ferrari for breakfast in the corners.

So there you go, Blue's fate has been decided. She'll live again, better than ever.

Most of her, anyway.


"RaceCarInABoxKits" are often more "Visual Horsepower" than honest improvement. Not interested enough to go look at it... but the 2 things that may actually create improvement is adjustability, and you having the ability to do so... and reducing unsprung weight. Add on items that mimic the stuff the factory may have done, like sway bars, can have instant rewards... but get everything all stiffened up with urethane bushings and you may find the ride is gone, and without making a 5000# car into a racer either.
View attachment 499701

I trust it more than this. And the car was driven reguarly for at least 10 years like that.

Cut and weld until it is done.


Oh yeah, I'm hunting stub frames. And I'm unclear on if '69 stubs are ok for this car or not. I know '70 up they went with the soft mounted stubs that differed significantly, but I've seen evidence either way for the '69's. If anyone knows (or has one to sell me on this side of the universe) i'd appreciate that
Easy answer... the stub with the bushings is spaced for the bushings... the parts that shouldn't have bushings are spaced for metal to metal assembly... so the later stub may almost work, but you'll be shimming the hell out of every mounting point to get it to all bolt together and align the front clip.

I promise there is a more complicated answer from someone who's tried it.
 
"RaceCarInABoxKits" are often more "Visual Horsepower" than honest improvement. Not interested enough to go look at it... but the 2 things that may actually create improvement is adjustability, and you having the ability to do so... and reducing unsprung weight. Add on items that mimic the stuff the factory may have done, like sway bars, can have instant rewards... but get everything all stiffened up with urethane bushings and you may find the ride is gone, and without making a 5000# car into a racer either.

Even if the 4-link/bypass coils conversion had no functional benefits over the leafs (which would take some doing), it still makes more sense than taking it back to stock. I understand the work it takes to make something actually improved, it's not just throwing parts at it and calling it a day. Perhaps this is just my avenue to getting a muscle car that's way out of my price range. Read into it what you will but I got enough luxury cars to last a lifetime, I just want to build a party wagon.

And if it's as easy as spotting the soft mount vs hard mount stubs, that makes life easy.
 


Started the ressurection. Dropped the exhaust and moved it to the welder stall to start stripping it and repairing the rear. But boy is she crusty.

Also had a welder friend who spent many years professionally building/altering semi truck frames come look at it, he gave me some advice and how to repair what. It's simultaneously better and worse than I'd expected, but compared to my truck build, it's not much. Might even have it on the road before summer if i can get a front stub for it in time.
 
Quick question: Tearing the interior out to assess the rear and start repairing it. Not sure how the third row bench unbolts. It's fastened to tapped plates welded to the floor but the bolts are directly under the seat cushion, and to move the cushion is to unbolt it. I feel dumb for not figuring out, but how do I get these bolts out? Trying to be as gentle as possible with this thing.
 
Man if it's on hinges, it did not want to move. I guess I' m too worried about damaging it, i'll go take the caveman approach then.
 
Turns out it was seized because the right side hinge went through the floor and was wedged up in there. Go figure. The backrest weighs like 100 pounds too, I bet this thing sheds 500 pounds with the interior out of it.

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Yeah there's some work to be done.

By the by, what's the point of those body plugs? Such an increase in tooling complexity and I just dont understand what they're for.
 
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Guess what, it's happening.

Wildcat finally got back to me and parted out a '66 plymouth, I hopped in my 48 ford and blasted down and back in a single 22 hour shot to grab it.

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750 miles later, i'm home. Hopefully this spring, Big Blue will live again.

Beautiful drive too. the return as the sun went down was gorgeous, oregon valleys lit up with a warm glow, mist slotting between hills and across arid farmland. Truck was amazing, bombed down at 85mph no problem. 60 was the happy spot coming back with 1200 pounds of junk in the back. Wonderful time.

Though the novelty wore off at 2am getting grilled by the customs Stasi for an hour over what the hell was in back of my big stupid hot rod.

Oh well, did the damn thing.
 
For sure, but it's really just to correct the ride height from the tired springs. I wasn't intending on making use of the towing package anytime soon.

The only alternative is spending a pile to re-arch the springs, or fiddle with caster plates to correct the pinion angle while still losing all that travel. Obviously lift blocks aren't an option due to the 'flipped' perches.

I haven't seriously investigated cost but i doubt re-arching will cost less than some bargain bin air shocks.
My parents had a new 69 Chrysler Town and Country back in the day. The rear end sagged almost from new. 15 year old me convinced my dad to install airshocks, it helped the level and the ride, and the car went to the junkyard at 120K miles with the shocks still on it....
Mark
 
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