+50 killed...+500 injured in Vegas

[sixpkrt]

Yep. It has happened again. So sad.

 

[live4theking]

There seems to be no end to the disrespect for human life.

 

[Fratzog]

Terrible and sad. It seems like a serious break down of security but a lot more needs to be investigated. Just curious if these kinds of events need a permit and if that includes some kind of security requirements.

 

[Davea Lux]

Terrible and sad. It seems like a serious break down of security but a lot more needs to be investigated. Just curious if these kinds of events need a permit and if that includes some kind of security requirements.

Yes on both counts. Events such as this require a security fence, permit and all carry in bags are checked. Unfortunately, when some POS loser decides to open fire from the 32nd floor of a nearby hotel, there is very little a security plan can do to stop it. He planned this attack well. He took an ax to chop out the sealed plexiglass window in his hotel room, he brought multiple firearms and thousands of rounds of ammo and requested a room overlooking the concert venue. He appears to have had a modified AK-47 that seams to have done most of the firing. Not clear whether it was full auto or whether a semi-auto model was modified.

What little we know about the shooter is that he was a 64 year old retired accountant who gambled heavily. My guess is that he pissed away all of his money and decided to go out in a "blase of infamy", in typical loser fashion.

The rest of us can now expect yet another assault or out second amendment rights.

Dave

 

[Fratzog]

Yes on both counts. Events such as this require a security fence, permit and all carry in bags are checked.

Dave

Thanks for the insight Dave. Not knowing the first thing about security shouldn't checking guests in rooms facing the venue be standard procedure? I can imagine a day when hotels will have baggage scanners like they have in airports.

The rest of us can now expect yet another assault or out second amendment rights.

This guy may have been a few bricks short of a load. It's been my view that with all rights come responsibilities. As an analogy here in Ontario if my doctor determined I had a medical condition that impaired my ability to operate a motor vehicle he would be legally obligated to inform the province and my licence to drive would be suspended. Not saying it would apply in this case but something like that doesn't seem to be an unreasonable restriction if applied to guns.

 

[Davea Lux]

Thanks for the insight Dave. Not knowing the first thing about security shouldn't checking guests in rooms facing the venue be standard procedure? I can imagine a day when hotels will have baggage scanners like they have in airports.

This guy may have been a few bricks short of a load. It's been my view that with all rights come responsibilities. As an analogy here in Ontario if my doctor determined I had a medical condition that impaired my ability to operate a motor vehicle he would be legally obligated to inform the province and my licence to drive would be suspended. Not saying it would apply in this case but something like that doesn't seem to be an unreasonable restriction if applied to guns.

The difference of course is that the privilege to drive under US law is revocable, the right to a firearm is a constitutionally mandated right established by rule of law under the US constitution. The exception being if one is judged by a court to be mentally defective and presenting a danger to one self or others. One also forfeits the right to keep and bear arms if one is convicted to certain felonies.

I would hope our society does not get to a police state situation where every one and everything is scanned at every opportunity.

Dave

 

[Davea Lux]

Thanks for the insight Dave. Not knowing the first thing about security shouldn't checking guests in rooms facing the venue be standard procedure? I can imagine a day when hotels will have baggage scanners like they have in airports.

This guy may have been a few bricks short of a load. It's been my view that with all rights come responsibilities. As an analogy here in Ontario if my doctor determined I had a medical condition that impaired my ability to operate a motor vehicle he would be legally obligated to inform the province and my licence to drive would be suspended. Not saying it would apply in this case but something like that doesn't seem to be an unreasonable restriction if applied to guns.

The history of the US second amendment is somewhat unique in the Western world. During the pre Revolutionary War period in American history, the British crown passed numerous regulations regarding colonial firearms. Chief among them was the that all colonial firearms were to be stored in Armories controlled by the crown. That lead to a predictable situation in which every time the "natives" got restless, access to firearms would be restricted. Individuals considered to be politically opposed to the crown were denied access to firearms altogether. That is why the language in the US Constitution specifically states "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

The writers of the US Constitution were both wise to what had happened under British rule and cynical about the government that they were creating. They had an inherent distrust of government so all citizens were to be given the right to oppose tyranny if that should occur at some future date. This aspect was one of the few things all of the writers of the US constitution held in common despite their many other disagreements.

Dave

 

[Fratzog]

I would hope our society does not get to a police state situation where every one and everything is scanned at every opportunity.

Dave

Sounds like we are on the same page. This guy's behaviour was deranged by any standard. There's no easy answer of how to stop a determined lunatic.

The difference of course is that the privilege to drive under US law is revocable,

I've always admired the 2nd Amendment and wished we had something similar here in Canada however calling the use of public roads a privilege may be stretching it.
Right to Drive

 

[Davea Lux]

The right or privilege to drive upon public highways is a can of worms in that the interpretation varies widely because of the difference between the Constitutions of the various US states and the established case law in those states. Here in Oregon where I live, the right to drive is a privilege under the case law that can be revoked with just cause that involves due process. Oregon does not recognize the concept that driving is a fundamental right as proposed by most civil libertarians. To the best of my knowledge there is no defining Federal case or decision on this matter that is specific to the right to drive.

Dave

 

[cantflip]

My condolences to those injured and those who lost a loved one.

One thought that really disturbs me, by the time the media is done with this... in the future, the folks who somehow see this as an act to follow will have a better blueprint to learn from.

I believe anyone with any firearms background would admit most prior shootings could have had bigger casualties. This one has reset the record and I expect there will eventually be worse.

 

[live4theking]

My condolences to those injured and those who lost a loved one.

One thought that really disturbs me, by the time the media is done with this... in the future, the folks who somehow see this as an act to follow will have a better blueprint to learn from.

I believe anyone with any firearms background would admit most prior shootings could have had bigger casualties. This one has reset the record and I expect there will eventually be worse.

Two points that are unfortunately probably more accurate then I would like to admit. In the same line of thinking I've always wondered why it is that when someone commits the perfect murder they have to make a hundred movies of it a show everyone how it was done.

 

[Carmine]

Everyone wants something to be done, which is quite rational, but the reality is there is little that can be done. Especially when a psychotic is able to do some determination and planning. People will want to blame the hotel, but the reality is he could have had similar shots from probably a dozen other locations. And if not a rifle, how about a truck? The Paris truck attack still holds the “record” at 84 innocents killed. As I figured would eventually happen, in this case you’re just got a plain old nutjob with no political or religious bent. One of those people who can live and die without much impact on the world… He probably thought about that before he hatched this plan, and changing that might well have been his only motivator.

I have these ideas that it must relate to the “boredom” of modern life, where so many people are desperate to experience a rush of adrenaline… After all, we don’t really need to hunt for our food at a supermarket. But then I always think back to being a little kid in the mid-80s and watching a re-telling of the University of Texas bell tower shootings (1966, 18 people died). It seems so quaint that 20-years after the fact, this was still considered such a novel and ghastly crime. 1966 wasn’t exactly caveman days either, so why were these (non-terrorist) mass-killings relatively rare?


The only common denominator I can think of is the 24-hour news cycle. Even our local news radio stations just threw themselves over to national feeds yesterday. While I have no desire to remain ignorant of current events, I do wonder what effect the wall-of-coverage has on the mind of a psychotic. That’s not a “solution”, but I suppose it’s where I might start investigating if it were my job. I’m also perturbed that there is so much effort to empathize with the degenerate scum who perpetrate these killings. I just once would like to hear someone say what a cowardly pussy this guy must have been to attack in such a way. I’m curious if anyone else feels this way, but in the times I’ve been really angry at someone, I’ve never had the urge to use a gun… Fists; yes. Gun, no. I’m not proud to admit I actually have swung at people… but I am relieved to say I would have felt like a huge puss to use a gun, so never crosses my mind. I figure it was something I was taught young, probably by my ever-influential grandfather. And oddly enough I’m very pro-2ndamendment because I believe there is a place for firearms, but outside of hunting and range practice it’s pretty damn rare.

I don’t know what the answer is. I can only say the empathy and 24-7 coverage of these cowards really bothers me.

 

[1978 NYB]

Senseless waste of life.

I am a 2nd Amendment supporter and hate it when every time some lunatic does something stupid they want to take all the guns away. Does anyone really think that would of stopped this tragedy?

 

[GJS]

I too am at a loss on this one. Lots of people want to place restrictions on this that or the other .. especially when it comes to types of firearms. Seems to me that destroying all "assault rifles" or large cap magazines is tantamount to killing all Pitbulls. .. I've been thrown up against a fence by a guy with a hypodermic needle in a city where there were virtually no guns and heroin usage and HIV were skyrocketing .. so it goes that if you kill off the Pitbulls, some asshat will raise a blood thirsty Rat Terrier in a cage.

All I know is that I was licensed to carry in 2012. I purchased a Kimber Tactical Carry II that I actually never carried but took a lot of time to learn tactical shooting and sharpen my marksmanship. In 2014 I got a DUI and shortly after, reasoning that if I cant responsibly drink, I have no business owning a weapon, I sold the pistol. Some saw that as overkill on my part and perhaps it was but seriously, If I couldn't keep my **** in gear to drive, how could I trust myself with a machine DESIGNED to take lives?

There are a number of factors at work here, not the least of which is desensitization and misunderstanding (if not a complete rejection) of personal responsibility. How these oversights are taught or how these basic underpinnings of existence in a civilized world are fading from the fabric of our society breaks my heart.

 

[Big_John]

The whole thing has me questioning what really happened. This was methodically planned in advance and I look at the show as being something that might tend to attract a more politically conservative audience. The shooter doesn't have a background (aside from his father) that lends itself to this type of insanity nor does he have a background (that we know of) that shows he would be able to handle the weapons.

It all doesn't add up....

Usually I say that the shooters were loaners with chips on their shoulders looking to go down in history as "the guy that shot up the ______". Their name and face is all over the media along with their very own Wikipedia page after their death. Kind of a "I'll show them" and "Look at me" deal.

This smacks of more people involved and much more planning...

I see an assault on our 2A rights coming... Even though the full auto weapons used have been illegal for decades. Hillary already ignorantly mentioned silencers in her tweet on the subject, always one to grab on to a tragedy for some personal publicity.

 

[1978 NYB]

Hillary is irrelevant!

Even her own party doesn't want to hear her **** anymore! Time for her to fade off in to history!!!!

 

[Fratzog]

I believe there is a place for firearms, but outside of hunting and range practice it’s pretty damn rare.

It was always my understanding that the intention of your founding fathers was to ensure that never again could a government abuse it's citizens the way the king did prior to your revolution. It's unlikely they had range practice in mind when formulating the 2nd Amendment. At the risk of sounding conspiratorial the motivation of anti-gun lobbyists is to remove this potential threat to the elite. If I were a citizen of your fine country you can bet I'd be a member of a militia which would be my right.

 

[Carmine]

It was always my understanding that the intention of your founding fathers was to ensure that never again could a government abuse it's citizens the way the king did prior to your revolution. It's unlikely they had range practice in mind when formulating the 2nd Amendment. At the risk of sounding conspiratorial the motivation of anti-gun lobbyists is to remove this potential threat to the elite. If I were a citizen of your fine country you can bet I'd be a member of a militia which would be my right.

Perhaps my meaning didn't quite come across... I agree there is a place for firearms. Defense of family, property and person, as well as taking up arms against oppression. However, those occasions are pretty damn rare.

 

[bluefury361]

The NRA and the 80 something politicians in their pocket should be held partiality responsible for these events involving assault weapons. There is absolutely no need for anyone outside of the military to own one.
Say what you will, there is a need to amend the 2nd amendment to reflect this.

Our own very limited selection of emocons has a redneck looking character with a rifle sneaking up on something and firing, but nothing to express peace and love.....

 

[Jeff]

I can imagine a day when hotels will have baggage scanners like they have in airports.

I would hope our society does not get to a police state situation where every one and everything is scanned at every opportunity.

I agree with Dave. There is no way I am going to give up my right to freely move about without going through scanners just so *** hats like this shooter can have assault rifles.