Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
How could you tell it's a "warranty block"? I see the blank pad, but how do you know the seller didn't simply machine it and clean off the VIN?
Warranty Block Question
- Thread starter Samplingman
- Start date
68PK21 440.6bbl
Old Man with a Hat
via Nick's Garage it should have one of these tags.
And a blank VIN pad.
And a blank VIN pad.
The short answer is you probably can't. This block shows a casting date that appears 7-22-70, right at the end of the production year. If this block had been installed as a production item in a vehicle, it should be stamped either with an "F" or "G" depending on when the 1970 production run ceased and the 1971 one started. Warranty blocks, and late production blocks produced at the end of a production cycle are not stamped until they are actually installed so that, for example, a 1970 block does not appear in a 1971 vehicle. Most dealers had the stamping kit to mark the warranty block with the correct details, but like everything else, a lot of them did not bother to do it. That is what I think happened here. If the pad had been machined off to hide an existing VIN number, the pad will show a reduction in height caused by the grinding process. You can check that against a block with a serial number to see if there is an obvious difference, but the factory machining process on the marking pads was not all that exact to begin with. Hope this helps.
Dave
That's a pre-1969 block. You can tell by the lack of the rib above the freeze plug. Pre-1969 blocks didn't have the VIN stamped on them.
Pic stolen from the intrawebs.
Note that the "Factory Built Short Engine" tag appeared on new replacement short blocks, it does not necessarily mean that the engine was covered under warranty.
Dave
Dave
Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
Thanks, the seller is looking for a small fortune in trade, so it's not something I'm going for. I don't see where there would have been an extra tag mounted on this one, so it made me suspicious.
Just for curiosities sake, what year is he claiming this engine is supposed to be? John makes a good point about the block ribs, yet it appears to have a 1970 casting date.
Dave
Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
But the cast in date is 1-22-70? I didn't think the pre-69 blocks even had the VIN pad.
Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
I'm trying to find the ad again, but it was short on description.
Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
Ok, here is the ad, he says it is a 7/70 casting date.
1970 440 Dodge Charger R/T Six Pack Motor Engine Mopar Challenger 1969
I have a Stock Bore 440 Six Pack Motor; I had it Hot Tanked, and Magna-Fluxed.
All the 440 Six Pack Internals, Heads, Harmonic Balancer, Oil Pump, Water Pump, Valve Covers, Timing Cover, Exhaust Manifold, Distributor, Accessory Brackets/Bolts, Pulleys, Steering Gearbox with Pitman Arm, Power Steering Pump are Included.
This is a Warranty Motor; and does not have a Vin Number Stamped on It.
7/70 casting date
Perfect Replacement for any 440 Car and Especially a 440 Six Pack.
Stock Bore and Perfect
No Broken Ears, No Cracks; No Rear Main Seal Issues.. NEVER BORED or Modified.
Looking to Trade for Tractor with a Snow Plow Attachment
1970 440 Dodge Charger R/T Six Pack Motor Engine Mopar Challenger 1969
I have a Stock Bore 440 Six Pack Motor; I had it Hot Tanked, and Magna-Fluxed.
All the 440 Six Pack Internals, Heads, Harmonic Balancer, Oil Pump, Water Pump, Valve Covers, Timing Cover, Exhaust Manifold, Distributor, Accessory Brackets/Bolts, Pulleys, Steering Gearbox with Pitman Arm, Power Steering Pump are Included.
This is a Warranty Motor; and does not have a Vin Number Stamped on It.
7/70 casting date
Perfect Replacement for any 440 Car and Especially a 440 Six Pack.
Stock Bore and Perfect
No Broken Ears, No Cracks; No Rear Main Seal Issues.. NEVER BORED or Modified.
Looking to Trade for Tractor with a Snow Plow Attachment
Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
I think the ribs are there, it's just a bad pic, and hard to tell.
I think you might be getting a snow job, which is why he needs the plow. Without the "V" stamped code on the block, it is just another 440 block.
Dave
The rib just isn't there.
I've never seen a post 69 block without it, and everything that I just looked at says the same. Does that mean it wasn't cast in 1970? I don't know. I've learned "never say never" with this stuff.
The fan clutch is the star of that ad though... That's $$$ for a good one.
I think that's a forged crank. It doesn't have the sharp edges of a cast crank, but the parting line isn't visible, so I can't tell for sure. "Six pack" rods are junk though.. Too heavy and I've seen a bunch of them break. They were used with later cast cranks too. Gotta have the right harmonic balancer and torque converter to make everything work.
One personal observation about warranty blocks... There seems to be a lot of them around. I'll bet more than back when they were new.
No price and I don't know what a "tractor with plow" that he would want would cost.
About halfway down is the explanation of the rib. Same pic I found.
440 Source.com Everything you've ever wanted to know about blocks and more....
440 Source.com Everything you've ever wanted to know about blocks and more....
Fury Pursuit
Senior Member
It’s not an HP block. Standard 440, so it’s not a “6 pack” motor. 4-20 Assembly date. With a .020 overbore “A”.
So since it has no VIN, but it does have an assembly date, we can assume it was a short block replacement. — 6BBL, Magnum, TNT, Super Commando,...not. If it had HP internals it should state so on the boss.
So since it has no VIN, but it does have an assembly date, we can assume it was a short block replacement. — 6BBL, Magnum, TNT, Super Commando,...not. If it had HP internals it should state so on the boss.
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Engine builders today are mostly discarding the factory 6 pack rods in favor of the more modern rods that are far stronger and lighter than the factory originals. Often, the complete rotating assembly is changed out as a whole and with today's metallurgy, these assemblies have a significantly lower throw weight which allows for higher engine RPMs and increased engine life. That means that there are original 6 pack lower end parts available for for all the scavengers and and parts flippers.
Dave
Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
So that’s what the “A” means? I have that on my ‘69 motor.
Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
LOL, I see a rib, it’s faint, but it I see it.
There were many of these codes that could be stamped on the ID plate, the FSM gives the full listing. Covered things like over bores, undersized bearings etc that were necessary to bring the engine to specs at the factory.
Dave
When people started pulling the cast crank 440 engines from the New Yorkers is when the market started getting flooded. I used to keep sets around for when someone just had to have "six pack" rods because they had an old article from Car Craft that said they were the hot ticket. It would take 3 engines to get 2 sets though. There was always one or two rods that parted ways. Surprisingly (at least in my experiences) they never seemed to do any damage to the block. I had one with a chipped pan rail, but that was it.
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