Has anyone used a Muscle Car Brakes drum kit on a C-body?

[TxDon]

I am considering a complete rebuild and upgrade of the drum brake system on my 66 Monaco wagon. My car has 11" by 3" front and 11" by 2 1/2" rear shoes which is the same setup as many B-body muscle cars so I am considering buying a full kit from Muscle Car Brakes which includes upgraded drums, shoes, ceramic linings, wheel cylinders, and upgraded hardware. It also includes a new master cylinder which will allow me to go to a dual master setup. These parts and kits get high ratings on FBBO, has anyone used their parts on a C-body? If so what was your experience, did it improve braking performance, were there any issues or problems?
Here is their website: Muscle Car Brakes

 

[Davea Lux]

The part numbers For 11" B-Body and C-Body drums from the '66 parts manual are different, I suspect using B-Body parts is not going to work. See attached. Click on mail 004, not the icon.

Dave

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

I would highly suggest going to a 69-73 disc brake setup. Easily available factory engineered parts and modern car braking. The biggest challenge will be finding the 65-68 disc booster, and there's lots out there to be found. One just has to know where to look.

 

[marko]

did you ask muscle car brakes about what you wanted to do ?
but i think i'd take advice from @Davea Lux and @Ross Wooldridge more than someone who is trying to sell you a brake kit.........

 

[CBODY67]

Just looked at their linked page. In the Stage III kit, the cryogenically-cooled drums are similar to what Delco (and possibly others) do to some of their disc brake rotors for additional surface hardness. Decreased "lot rot" rusting is one advantage that Delco lists, BUT I also highly suspect that extra hardness is to better deal with the higher abrasive action of the ceramic frictions on many newer vehicles. Possibly using ceramic frictions on non-treated drums could degrade them faster than even the prior metallic frictions?

To me, one of the easiset upgrades would be to find the backing plates for the factory 11x3 rear brakes, plus drums and associated hardware.

I suspect the C-body front drums are physically heavier/beefier than the similar B-body items, due to the amount of heat they would need to absorb?

The factory power brakes usually had NO problem locking all 4 wheels, when new, from my experiences. So there was plenty of braking power there, just not with the added fade resistance of disc brakes. But then, too, the amount of fade resistance tended to be variable with the brand and type of frictions, back then. Seems like there was a brake place in Amarillo, TX that did the police metallic brake shoes for Chrysler, back then?

Please keep us posted,
CBODY67

 

[TxDon]

Thanks for the responses. I did not really expect to find any users of this vendor here but wanted to try. I cross posted my thread on the FBBO forum and as expected found a lot more opinions but only one confirmed user so far. He has their stuff on a Hemi Super Bee and has driven it for 10 years and 70,000 miles that way. His experience supports MCB's claims and he says there are no modulation or lockup issues, just way better braking. I'm sure cost would keep most away from MCB but I would still like to hear from other users.

 

[TxDon]

I would highly suggest going to a 69-73 disc brake setup. Easily available factory engineered parts and modern car braking. The biggest challenge will be finding the 65-68 disc booster, and there's lots out there to be found. One just has to know where to look.

Thanks Ross but for now anyway I want to stay with drums if I can improve them. we shall see.

 

[TxDon]

The part numbers For 11" B-Body and C-Body drums from the '66 parts manual are different, I suspect using B-Body parts is not going to work. See attached. Click on mail 004, not the icon.

Dave

I also looked in my Hollander manual and you are correct. Wonder what the difference is...

 

[TxDon]

I did expand my online research of MCB and have found a number of satisfied users of their parts with other car makes. The company has been around for many years and was originally called Praise Dyno Brakes, all started by John Ambrose. Instead of using their special drums some have had their drums cryo-treated for the same result - never knew you could do that. Still researching this plus other drum options.

 

[TxDon]

Update, I have now heard from about 6 satisfied users on FBBO plus a few other Facebook comments. One was @MarPar who put their stuff on a 69 C body. All who have used them are big fans, say the performance is as promised including fade resistance. No one used the thermo cooled drums but just used stock type and no mention of the ceramic being a wear issue. Most felt they were well worth the cost. I am leaning more in their direction.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Don, please DO keep us posted if you purchase these ceramic 11x3" front shoes, presumably as part of the Stage III package MCB offers. I'm extremely curious about the quality of every component offered in these packages, as I intend to keep drum brakes exclusively for Mathilda and any other Golden Age of Detroit Iron Mopar we acquire. If they offer the comprehensive system implied by their web advertisement, this may be worthwhile. I don't like brake systems which rely on boosters; thus pure mechanical drum brakes.

Find out WHO makes their drums, shoes, wheel and master cylinders for their system. A grand isn't too bad IFF the components all be well made.

 

[TxDon]

Here is a semi-update on my brake situation. I called John Ambrose at MCB the second week of October but the company was closed down due to a death in his family. He called me back the following week and we talked at length. Their Matrix Ceramic lining material is a proprietary blend of Kevlar, Aramid and ceramic that they originally developed more than 40 years ago for military use, then expanded for automotive applications. This lining has up to 38% higher coefficient of friction and much greater fade resistance than stock replacement linings, wears much longer and does not create accelerated drum wear. They make the shoes here using new steel shoes from Canada. All of their hydraulic parts and hardware are American made. They do not stock drums for C-body cars so that is not an option but he said good stock drums will work fine as long as they are trued. They also do not stock C-body brake hoses so their full stage 3 kit was not in the cards.

After thinking about it a few days I decided to go ahead with it and placed an online order on 10-21 for their front and rear "Brake in a Box" kits which include the shoes, hardware package, and new wheel cylinders. I then called John back to add a dual pot master cylinder to the order and he told me all of their outstanding orders have been delayed due to Covid related problems getting the Canadian shoes. So I am on hold for now, I will update further later.

 

[Gerald Morris]

You might do well to get some good NOS asbestos shoes that fit your current drums until this operation gets rolling again; God willing they do. Pls let me know if you
EVER want to sell that station wagon! I have a young wife, two precious daughters aged 5 and 2 yrs, and they are why I drive and maintain a Mopar C body vehicle! We're ALWAYS looking for a good station wagon of the proper vintage, with 1966 being THE optimal year. Thus you see my interest in your welfare isn't 100% altruistic. I want your ride to be i the best condition possible in case you ever sell it to us! I can always hope and dream, eh?

 

[CBODY67]

I'm curious just how much the added CoF will actually decrease stopping distances from 60mph or even 30mph? Just an idle thought . . . I remember the old Performance Friction carbon metallic brake pads from the '90s were supposed to stop a then-new Chevy pickup a significant number of feet shorter than the OEM brakes. Of course, "ANY" number of feet shorter can save lives.

Better brakes, better-stopping tires = "Seat belts REQUIRED"?

CBODY67

 

[TxDon]

I'm curious just how much the added CoF will actually decrease stopping distances from 60mph or even 30mph? Just an idle thought . . . I remember the old Performance Friction carbon metallic brake pads from the '90s were supposed to stop a then-new Chevy pickup a significant number of feet shorter than the OEM brakes. Of course, "ANY" number of feet shorter can save lives.

Better brakes, better-stopping tires = "Seat belts REQUIRED"?

CBODY67

We will see. The use of larger wheel and master cylinders is also part of the package. I already have the seat belts!

 

[TxDon]

This topic came up in another thread so I wanted to update - I still have not received the parts from MCB. I e-mailed them yesterday and John Ambrose called me right back. They still cannot get the brake shoe metal from their supplier in Canada and this has affected hundreds of outstanding orders, sounds like they are effectively shut down. I told him to keep me posted, I wasn't doing the job right away but as we get closer to spring I may have to rethink. I would really like to try their system but may not be able to. I will update when things change.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Rick Ehrenberg has some decent metallo-graphite shoes for the rear. I went with those, and will likely order new drums from Dynamic Friction in a few weeks. Mathilda ALREADY stops on a dime, thanks to some Good Old Boys who sold me a couple sets of NOS asbestos shoes for the front, which I installed with new Dynamic Friction drums. The drums are nicely balanced and painted but I had them re-rounded after shipping as they're still soft iron. You should do well if you equip your ride as I have. Do you have a dual pot master cylinder?

 

[TxDon]

Rick Ehrenberg has some decent metallo-graphite shoes for the rear. I went with those, and will likely order new drums from Dynamic Friction in a few weeks. Mathilda ALREADY stops on a dime, thanks to some Good Old Boys who sold me a couple sets of NOS asbestos shoes for the front, which I installed with new Dynamic Friction drums. The drums are nicely balanced and painted but I had them re-rounded after shipping as they're still soft iron. You should do well if you equip your ride as I have. Do you have a dual pot master cylinder?

Thanks for the info. I currently have the single pot master but conversion will be part of the project.

 

[Gerald Morris]

For a WAGON you probably want the 11"x3" shoes and drums up front. That actually makes things a bit easier 4 U....

 

[TxDon]

For a WAGON you probably want the 11"x3" shoes and drums up front. That actually makes things a bit easier 4 U....

That is what I have.