Engine block ID pad decode

[WissaMan]

Sorry to ask because I know there's lots of these threads all over the internet. But, honestly I've done a lot of searching and haven't come to a conclusive answer. I know this is a 73 because of the "J". But the trailing "T" I can't determine what it means. Some people say it means "truck" and others say it means Trenton assembly plant. The sites that have decode keys don't even list a T in their index of letters that would come after the 440.
For what it's worth, the fella I bought the car from said the P.O. put a "truck motor" in it which leads me to believe the T stands for truck, but that's just what the guy claimed so who knows if it's actually true.

While we're at it, here the stamp from the other 440 I have (enhanced for better readability). This one looks much more straight forward, but I'm a little confused by the "E2" on the lower line. Is that just part of the date code or does it mean it has a cast crank? I would think the E would be on the top line for it to mean it's a cast crank.

 

[CBODY67]

As I recall, by 1972 or so Dodge was winding-down its medium-duty truck business. As with the similar GM engines the "truck" motors weren't dressed as you might suspect, nothing like a 1/2 pickup truck motor. Much different water pumps and such. BTAIM

Seems like there are some stamping decodes in some of the FSMs, in the front "Info" section? What about the casting date in other places on the block, or even the casting numbers themselves? Any VIN stamps anywhere?

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[WissaMan]

This is the block casting # from the J440T

Here's from the J440

They seem to be the same except for the final digit. In the above, the 7th digit I assume is supposed to be a zero but it didn't come out right perhaps due to a slight defect in the mold.

That's all I got for now. Tomorrow I'll search around them more thoroughly for other casting #'s

 

[WissaMan]

I followed your advice and tracked down a 73 Dodge (cars) FSM. Here's what it says about the engine ID:

So it says the next one or two letters will designate model -- but I couldn't find anywhere in the manual where it says what those letters could be or what they would stand for. Here's a site where it lists just about every letter of the alphabet except for "T" :|

B/RB Mopar Blocks (stock) | www.darkside.ca

 

[69CoronetRT]

I followed your advice and tracked down a 73 Dodge (cars) FSM. Here's what it says about the engine ID:

View attachment 414446

So it says the next one or two letters will designate model -- but I couldn't find anywhere in the manual where it says what those letters could be or what they would stand for. Here's a site where it lists just about every letter of the alphabet except for "T" :|

B/RB Mopar Blocks (stock) | www.darkside.ca

That info apples to the engine ID number, not the info on the pads.

 

[69CoronetRT]

Sorry to ask because I know there's lots of these threads all over the internet. But, honestly I've done a lot of searching and haven't come to a conclusive answer. I know this is a 73 because of the "J". But the trailing "T" I can't determine what it means. Some people say it means "truck" and others say it means Trenton assembly plant. The sites that have decode keys don't even list a T in their index of letters that would come after the 440.
For what it's worth, the fella I bought the car from said the P.O. put a "truck motor" in it which leads me to believe the T stands for truck, but that's just what the guy claimed so who knows if it's actually true.

View attachment 414380

While we're at it, here the stamp from the other 440 I have (enhanced for better readability). This one looks much more straight forward, but I'm a little confused by the "E2" on the lower line. Is that just part of the date code or does it mean it has a cast crank? I would think the E would be on the top line for it to mean it's a cast crank.
View attachment 414393

View attachment 414391

Here's the info from 73 parts book. E = cast crank 2 = assembled second shift.

The "T", indicating Trenton Engine Plant, on the pad doen't appear until '74 and it follow the model year i.e 4T. (See below)

If the T follows the CID, that indicates a truck motor. You could confirm the origin of the assembly by looking at the VIN number stamped on the block to see if it follows the normal car VIN protocol.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

The 6. 12 E 2 is I'm going to guess a heavy duty engine or something with dual exhaust. I would bet if you look at the dampener it will have a external balance offset on it. Meaning it probably has 6 pack rods in it.
The engine with the T probably a trick engine. Assembled July 15 1972 for a 73 model

 

[WissaMan]

That info apples to the engine ID number, not the info on the pads.

This is from that same page of the FSM -- aren't they describing that pad that's near the water pump inlet?

The 6. 12 E 2 is I'm going to guess a heavy duty engine or something with dual exhaust. I would bet if you look at the dampener it will have a external balance offset on it. Meaning it probably has 6 pack rods in it.
The engine with the T probably a trick engine. Assembled July 15 1972 for a 73 model

From what I recall, the front dampener on the 6 12 E 2 block is larger, but that could also be because of a cast crank, which would agree with 69CoronetGT's pic from the 73 parts catalog.

Maybe if I could find a FSM from the 73 trucks that'd shed more light? Could it have come from a Winnebago maybe?

 

[CBODY67]

Might finding the VIN stamping clear things up, as to the origins and use? Didn't the VIN stamps start in about 1970 MY?

Just curious,
CBODY67

 

[WissaMan]

Yeah I'll take a more thorough look at them tomorrow, look for all the #'s I can find, take a close look at the harmonic balancer. It'd be great if there was something special about one of them but I kinda doubt it

 

[69CoronetRT]

Might finding the VIN stamping clear things up, as to the origins and use? Didn't the VIN stamps start in about 1970 MY?

Just curious,
CBODY67

Partial VINs on engines start in 68 Model year. Start dates of when VINs are stamped vary by plant.

Full VINs can be found from Aug 68 to mid Jan of 1969 for 69 MY cars.

Partial VINs go from Jan 69 forward.

 

[69CoronetRT]

This is from that same page of the FSM -- aren't they describing that pad that's near the water pump inlet?
View attachment 414489



From what I recall, the front dampener on the 6 12 E 2 block is larger, but that could also be because of a cast crank, which would agree with 69CoronetGT's pic from the 73 parts catalog.

Maybe if I could find a FSM from the 73 trucks that'd shed more light? Could it have come from a Winnebago maybe?

the pad location is different between a 400 and a 440. That description can’t apply to both. A pad ahead of #2 would be a 400.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

From what I recall, the front dampener on the 6 12 E 2 block is larger, but that could also be because of a cast crank, which would agree with 69CoronetGT's pic from the 73 parts catalog

It can be a cast crank with E. The dampener will have "for use with cast crank only" cast right in the dampener.

 

[WissaMan]

I pulled the oil pan off this engine

and here's what it looks like

From what I've read and seen on the interwebs, this looks like a cast crank to me. So it seems like that's what the E is indicating. I couldn't see a stamp on the dampener, probably because the pulleys are still on it. But it's fatter than the one on the other 73 440 so that points to a cast crank as well. Do you guys agree?

 

[70bigblockdodge]

That's a cast crank. Sharp defined edges on the casting and a very pronounced parting line(where the 2 sand cast halves meet).
Forged will have very soft edges on non machines parts, parting line will be faint/blurred.
Dampener is very thick, forged is 1" thick, very different.

 

[WissaMan]

Yes, the dampener on this engine is different (thicker) than the other 440. The one on the other 440 looks like this one below, so that one must be forged.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

It's definitely a cast crank from your pictures.

Sharp defined edges on as cast sections, forged will be all rounded off/smooth.
It is still a 500 hp capable crank.

 

[WissaMan]

Agreed, I'm sure it'll be fine for my purposes right now. I mainly needed to know so I could get the correct flywheel.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

B&M sells a external balance flex plate. It has a piece missing opposite where the weight would be added. All BB external balance cast cranks have same external balance 383, 400, 440.

 

[WissaMan]

This is going into a car w/ a 4-speed so I'll be ordering a flywheel that's balanced for a cask crank. I need a clutch kit and some other misc. parts too. I was planning to order from Brewer's Performance unless there's some other vendor I should consider in addition.