1966 Sport Fury 440 'vert One of Two - Hemmings find of the day

[kmccabe56]

Kevin, ever hear of this guy named Galen Govier? Well he is well known for...

LMAO. Kevin: you kick ***. Thanks!

Posted via Topify on Android

Yes, I know Galen. He's been to see me and we played "Pick each other's brain", but he picked more of mine, than I did of his. He also had me review his Barracuda book. But unfortunately for all concerned, I think he was looking more for my blessing than my review of it. I pointed out a number of details that I questioned, but he'd already printed off a whack of copies, so he wasn't about to reprint them to fix what I'd found.

I know a number of people who get a look on their faces like they've just been fed a big spoonful of ka-ka when Galen's name is brought up. But I actually have a certain amount of respect for what he's done. I liken it to a bunch of blind men going out to "see" an elephant. Every one of them gets an idea of what the elephant looks like, but it's only after you've talked to all of them that you get a better picture of what the beast really looks like. He's essentially reverse decoded a lot of the information a Chrysler product vehicle has to tell someone about itself. Is his stuff 100% correct? Probably not, but neither is Chrysler's own stuff on their vehicles. I've been a student of Chrysler Corporation for a bit over 50years, and I can still go downstairs and open something up and say "Gee, I didn't know that!" I'm sure that within a 50 mile radius of where I live, there are literally thousands of guys who are more knowledgeable than I am on a particular tidbit of Chrysler information. I've just been fortunate enough to have been in the right place with the right people at the right time, probably more than most.

If you think that Galen passes himself off as "THE" expert on Chrysler products, then you're probably right to feel the way you do about him. Galen knows a lot, but so do I. Our circles of knowledge overlap to a certain degree, but one doesn't fit neatly over the other. I've had people say to me "I hear you're an expert on Chrysler products" and my stock answer is "An expert is only as good as his next question. So ask your question, and we'll find out." Some guys go away really impressed, others think I'm full of **** and others just go away disappointed. At the end of the day, I figure none of it really matters, one way or the other.

Galen makes his living investigating and researching Chrysler product vehicles. So who's the dummy here? He's getting paid for it, and I'm posting stuff on websites.

LOL !

 

[commando1]

So Galen picked YOUR brain. Seriously, no joke, that IS impressive.
Here's my impression of GG and I admit 100% is because of what I have heard and read. I never met the man and if I did I know he could literally blow me away with non-C body Mopar knowledge. Hell, thousands of people could. There's Scott Smith that I would trust more on Hemi B bodies. There's Jim Rhinehart that I would trust more on anything A bodies, there's you who I would believe if you told me it is snowing out and I know it's July... Well you get the idea. GG has a horrible reputation and that had to come from somewhere. I think most of his horrible reputation has come from idiots who name drop him when trying to sell their cars. When anybody reads in an ad "inspected by GG" you can literally hear all the groans and see eyes roll. While providing a valuable service, he has allowed his name to be whored out. And his horrid business practices are legendary. It's even worse now that he's hooked up with one of those sleazy Muscle Cars stealerships. I'd rather roll around in the sewage pond than allign myself with any of those dealers. Yes, it's absolutely obvious the man is tremendously knowledgeable. I would never bet against him. And I know he went through some personal tragedy several years ago. Would I utilize GG's services? Probably to make sure I was really getting the real deal on a 1 of 1 GTX or something. For the other 99.99% of the stuff? Nah....

Posted via Topify on Android

 

[kmccabe56]

So Galen picked YOUR brain. Seriously, no joke, that IS impressive.
Here's my impression of GG and I admit 100% is because of what I have heard and read. I never met the man and if I did I know he could literally blow me away with non-C body Mopar knowledge. Hell, thousands of people could. There's Scott Smith that I would trust more on Hemi B bodies. There's Jim Rhinehart that I would trust more on anything A bodies, there's you who I would believe if you told me it is snowing out and I know it's July... Well you get the idea. GG has a horrible reputation and that had to come from somewhere. I think most of his horrible reputation has come from idiots who name drop him when trying to sell their cars. When anybody reads in an ad "inspected by GG" you can literally hear all the groans and see eyes roll. While providing a valuable service, he has allowed his name to be whored out. And his horrid business practices are legendary. It's even worse now that he's hooked up with one of those sleazy Muscle Cars stealerships. I'd rather roll around in the sewage pond than allign myself with any of those dealers. Yes, it's absolutely obvious the man is tremendously knowledgeable. I would never bet against him. And I know he went through some personal tragedy several years ago. Would I utilize GG's services? Probably to make sure I was really getting the real deal on a 1 of 1 GTX or something. For the other 99.99% of the stuff? Nah....

Posted via Topify on Android

Fame does carry a price, and I guess that's why I'm content to sit quietly in a corner and just enjoy what I've got. I don't have the time or the interest to follow what Galen's doing. I have a 50/50 chance of seeing him once a year at a local swap meet, IF, he comes into town for it and it's been so long since I've seen him, I could very likely walk by him and not even realize who it was.

My biggest issue that is rapidly approaching is what to do with what I've got. It'd be great to have somebody show up with a boatload of $$$ but that's unlikely unless they know what they're buying. I have had the opportunity to literally study at the feet of people who tracked, were responsible for, or created a lot of really neat material and information. I only know (slightly) one person whom I would consider to know more about my material than I do, and I suspect that he's at least in the same age bracket I am, or close to it. So he's not likely going to want to take custody of this material and I sure as hell bet he doesn't have the room for it. Hell, I don't have the room for it all, and I've got decades of storage bills to prove it. I tried donating some stuff to the local library years ago and that was a fiasco. I had to literally do everything but catalog it for them and put it on their shelves. There are more and more days where I think investing in one of those gizmos that makes yule logs is a really good idea.

 

[AAR65]

Mark Worman, now there is a walking encyclopedia of Mopar information.

Flame on...

 

[patrick66]

I got one of GG's very first decode sheets, this being my Coronet 500. I provided him with quite a few fender tags' worth of info from scrapped Mopars back in the mid-'80s. Galen is a pretty knowledgeable Mopar guy, but I know quite a few others that likely know a LOT more. GG just happens to sell his knowledge (most gleaned from Mopar records back in the '80s) to others...and that's fine. He does have a level of arrogance that really riles me, though. He did not gain his knowledge alone. He got a lot of it from others like myself and kmmcabe56, and many others. Yet, he'd have folks believe that he alone is the sole source of all things Mopar. That arrogance is just annoying.

To be quite honest, I'd put Mark Worman's knowledge up against Galen any day of the week.

 

[commando1]

Kinda scary knowing all this knowledge will disappear over time...
Famous people leave all their work to institutions for preservation and future research.
I can't imagine anyplace that wants to store, catalog, and preserve Mopar data.
And sadly enough, I'm sure there will be a Lindsay Lohan or Baby Boo Boo museum some day.

 

[mcmlvii]

My biggest issue that is rapidly approaching is what to do with what I've got.

I can understand your predicament. I have no idea what literature you might have in storage, and to most onlookers the literature would seem to be nothing more than yule log fodder (heaven forbid!!). But it's people like you (and Govier and Worman) that gives this hobby so much more depth. There are those out there that could care less about a car's pedigree, like the guy I bought my SF from. He said, "Yeah, some people like to see this CertiCard thingie under the hood. I really don't care myself. A car's just a car." But then there are those like myself that want to find out every little detail they can about their rolling piece of history, even if it's not a 1 of 1 GTX.

 

[kmccabe56]

I can understand your predicament. I have no idea what literature you might have in storage, and to most onlookers the literature would seem to be nothing more than yule log fodder (heaven forbid!!). But it's people like you (and Govier and Worman) that gives this hobby so much more depth. There are those out there that could care less about a car's pedigree, like the guy I bought my SF from. He said, "Yeah, some people like to see this CertiCard thingie under the hood. I really don't care myself. A car's just a car." But then there are those like myself that want to find out every little detail they can about their rolling piece of history, even if it's not a 1 of 1 GTX.

Ironically, sales literature is the thing most "restorers" (loosely applied term here) use as their documentation when doing a car. It's probably the most unreliable `factory' information. Off the top of my head, my three most favourite "oops" that made it to a literature rack are: The Minivan catalog that showed a left side sliding door, (long before there really were left side sliding doors) the Cordoba interior with both a column shift and a console and floor shift, and the two distinct printings of the 1970 Dodge Salesman's Data Book. While the first two are goofs by the people producing the literature, the data book reprint was due solely to the product planning people at Chrysler making wild shifts in standard and optional equipment details, restrictions and mandatory options.

Speaking of details of a particular car, my family bought a '66 Valiant V200 2dr sedan new, built in Windsor. Except for the Valiant lettering front and back, it's a '66 Dart. Went to visit a relative elsewhere in town and as we pulled up to the house, a neighbour who worked in the plant was out and came over. He stuck his head momentarily inside the passenger door and looked at the headliner. "Oh, that's so-and-so's work". This guy worked installing headliners and each of the guys in this area of the plant could tell their work from one another just by looking at how it was installed. When you don't live in the town where the car was built, it's tough to come up with tidbits like that.

 

[bajajoaquin]

Have you thought about trying to contact Google? They might be interested in digitizing it.

 

[kmccabe56]

Have you thought about trying to contact Google? They might be interested in digitizing it.

Not so much google, but I've had people say "What are you doing with all that paper? Scan it into your computer!". And my usual response is "Sure you c'mon over and bring 40 or 50 of your closest friends, all with high with high speed scanners, and I'll check back with you in a year. Between stuff being odd sizes, in 3ring binders and bound books, the vast majority is going to have to be hand fed or placed on a scanner, and if you've got a bunch of somebodies who've got the time to do that send them along.

 

[commando1]

Digitizing the data is 10% of the problem. Cataloging it so that someone doing research can actuality make use of it is 90%.
Data without anybody knowing where it is might as well be a tree that falls in the forest. Who knows and who cares...

Posted via Topify on Android

 

[bajajoaquin]

That's where Google would be perfect. They are going into major libraries and digitizing everything. They have the algorithms needed to index and search. I have no idea how you would get a hold of the right people, but they have stated that their ultimate goal is to digitize, index, and catalog all of human knowledge.

 

[kmccabe56]

Digitizing the data is 10% of the problem. Cataloging it so that someone doing research can actuality make use of it is 90%.
Data without anybody knowing where it is might as well be a tree that falls in the forest. Who knows and who cares...

Posted via Topify on Android

Not sure 90% is cataloging. My stuff is organized so that I know where a specific kind of document/book/etc is. The trick is in knowing what those documents/books can tell you. Years ago I was contacted by a fellow who was doing accident investigations. He was interested in the turning circle of a '75 D600 with a particular wheelbase and tires. I "knew" I had the answer to his question, but I spend hours and couldn't find it. In desperation I called a friend at the time who was the truck specialist at Ross Roy, and asked him. He laughed and said "You do have the answer for that, it's in the Truck Engineering Data Book". I thanked him, hung up the phone, went downstairs, opened up the book, found the answer and emailed the investigator back. Without knowing what sort of information a particular piece has, it's still a crapshoot. I've been lucky I guess. I haven't been caught out like that, since. Although I'm getting perilously close right now on a question on a '36 Chrysler.

 

[patrick66]

Years ago I was contacted by a fellow who was doing accident investigations. He was interested in the turning circle of a '75 D600 with a particular wheelbase and tires. I "knew" I had the answer to his question, but I spend hours and couldn't find it. In desperation I called a friend at the time who was the truck specialist at Ross Roy, and asked him. He laughed and said "You do have the answer for that, it's in the Truck Engineering Data Book". I thanked him, hung up the phone, went downstairs, opened up the book, found the answer and emailed the investigator back.

Damn, and I thought I was pretty good on a lot of Mopar trivia! It helps to have all those reference books, like you have. All I have are service manuals, parts books, and quite a bit of sales literature and magazine ads.

 

[commando1]

And guys blow their load because they found a build sheet........

 

[kmccabe56]

And guys blow their load because they found a build sheet........

Well, given how limited the year range is of Chrysler Historical, finding the build sheet for a car newer than they can research IS a big deal. (Dunno about blowin' a load though....) Compared to GM and Ford vehicles, the fender tag is very informative, but absolutely nothing beats the build sheet. What I find hilarious are the guys who call up thinking that Chrysler has f-ed up royally, when they find a build sheet for another car than their own.

Boys and girls, the build sheets are in the cars because the guys on the line can't be bothered to throw them in a garbage can. The car becomes the garbage can for these sheets.

Not exactly sure how far back this goes, but the guys at the parts counter can punch in the vin of a car from at least 1987 (maybe earlier) and get the complete list of equipment that was in the car when it was built. Maybe not all parts guys are charitable enough to do that, but the ability exists.