1971 440 T-code Engine repaint -- questions and opinions?

Trace 300 Hurst

Professional Tinkerer
FCBO Gold Member
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
1,987
Reaction score
2,410
Location
Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
I have a distinct engine color recollection, circa 1973. My pal had a minty 68 383 RRunner that I did the heads and a cam for. My parents had a 71 Grand Coupe with the 360. The RR engine was definitely turquoise, which to me looked "old" like earlier Mopar engines. My parent's 360 was a whole different color, clearly a blue with no hint of turquoise. That blue is the same as Michel's oil pan.
 

'69FuryIIIConvertible

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
4,083
Reaction score
4,987
Location
Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Silly question, but are you guys preheating the rattle cans to make sure that it's at proper temp before spraying? That can effect pigmentation.

Below are two engines painted with Duplicolor Chrysler Blue...

20180728_224542.jpg
FB_IMG_1473001960687.jpg
FB_IMG_1473001968351.jpg


A photo of a set of original paint valve covers (with the usual fade)
FB_IMG_1473008935730.jpg
 

'69FuryIIIConvertible

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
4,083
Reaction score
4,987
Location
Ajax, Ontario, Canada
For what it's worth, I painted my 318 with Mopar engine paint from the 70s and it's much darker then I expected, I'm going to leave it as is because I don't want to paint it again.

Here's some more examples

Duplicolor in natural light
FB_IMG_1588078579223.jpg


Mopar
FB_IMG_1588078712029.jpg


No flash
FB_IMG_1588078706229.jpg


With flash
FB_IMG_1588078673007.jpg
FB_IMG_1588078663350.jpg
 

Samplingman

Old Man with a Hat
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
5,569
Reaction score
5,995
Location
South Jersey
For what it's worth, I painted my 318 with Mopar engine paint from the 70s and it's much darker then I expected, I'm going to leave it as is because I don't want to paint it again.

Here's some more examples

Duplicolor in natural light
View attachment 372090

Mopar
View attachment 372091

No flash
View attachment 372092

With flash
View attachment 372093 View attachment 372094
I was hoping the Duplicolor would work, it's only $8 a can here, the Hirsch paint is $20.
 

Lilbluecoupe71

New Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
46
Reaction score
72
Location
Jersey
mopar offers this color, you can find it on jegs, or summit racing P4120752AB. ive used it before and it matches well. im currently putting together a 512ci. will post some pictures when I paint it.
 

saforwardlook

Old Man with a Hat
FCBO Gold Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
7,255
Reaction score
12,234
Location
California
Silly question, but are you guys preheating the rattle cans to make sure that it's at proper temp before spraying? That can effect pigmentation.

Below are two engines painted with Duplicolor Chrysler Blue...

View attachment 372085 View attachment 372086 View attachment 372087

A photo of a set of original paint valve covers (with the usual fade)
View attachment 372089

Actually your engines with the Duplicolor blue look exactly like my last 71 engine in one of my 300s that went overseas. I painted it last summer (no photo unfortunately) but since I live in California and the summers are hot, maybe that is why mine came out more like yours than what Ayilar showed in his comparison photos (water pump). Thanks for the helpful comments and photos.
 

'69FuryIIIConvertible

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
4,083
Reaction score
4,987
Location
Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Actually your engines with the Duplicolor blue look exactly like my last 71 engine in one of my 300s that went overseas. I painted it last summer (no photo unfortunately) but since I live in California and the summers are hot, maybe that is why mine came out more like yours than what Ayilar showed in his comparison photos (water pump). Thanks for the helpful comments and photos.
Could be a temperature related thing, I usually preheat my rattle cans by submerging the bottom 2/3rds in warm water for 5-7 minutes, then shake them well for another 2-3 minutes.

It helps to make sure everything is a liquid again, including the pigment sitting on the bottom of the can.

I've been able to use 40+ year old spray cans that way.

Nick
 

Dobalovr

Being on the Cbody diet SUCKS!
FCBO Gold Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
7,561
Location
Calgary Alberta
mopar offers this color, you can find it on jegs, or summit racing P4120752AB. ive used it before and it matches well. im currently putting together a 512ci. will post some pictures when I paint it.
This is what I used on my 70 $9 a can CDN at the Dealer
 

Samplingman

Old Man with a Hat
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
5,569
Reaction score
5,995
Location
South Jersey
Ok, here’s my take. I just picked up a can of the Dupli Color DE 1631 at the local NAPA for $8. I sprayed a small area on both covers. Top cover had been repainted sometime on the past, bottom is original on the TX9. The blue is a bit bolder and brighter than the repaint, certainly not as dark as the water pump in the post above. The original paint on the cover of the TX9 does have a hint of green but it is definitely not the earlier turquoise. I’ll most likely go with the Dupli Color on my build.
35E6AC2A-F16D-42E7-8354-7A9555598351.jpeg
 

ayilar

Old Man with a Hat
FCBO Gold Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
5,500
Reaction score
7,907
Location
USA
Thank you guys for all the photos. I now understand why @saforwardlook used the Duplicolor.

As for Medina, I’ve decided to go with the Bill Hirsch Chrysler Blue paint. Bought those expensive $20 cans, might as well use them. I’ll post photos of the result next week once the paint has cured.
 

ayilar

Old Man with a Hat
FCBO Gold Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
5,500
Reaction score
7,907
Location
USA
One more twist, folks.

@71Polara383, with whom I have been performing this inquiry, sent me a photo of the Mopar Performance label. Basically, the car manufacturer's own label says that turquoise is in fact correct for all B/RB engines from 1962 to 1971 except HP engines and that the blue color (that would be correct on a 1969-72 small block engine) is correct on a B/RB starting in 1972 (whereas Hirsch says 1973-1983). That information is repeated at Mopar1.us.

Mopar label FB_IMG_1588306648735 copy.jpg


--> I found an interesting quote (see my highlight in bold) on the Aventura dealer's website: "Used on all “B/RB” big block engines during 1962-71 (with the exception of the 1969-71 high-performance 383/440 engines), was the medium blue-green color (Mopar P4120752). The turquoise color wasn’t very popular, and was often confused with another blue paint by Mopar that turned a little turquoise once the engine heated up." That information, with almost exactly similar wording, can be found in this 2018 Mopar Magazine article.

The funny thing is, it looks like Medina's engine (again, it is numbers-matching and was cast in mid-July 1970) is painted in a blue (cue the pan) that turned turquoise (cue the engine's top).

--> I also found the following quote at turbine car.com: "I have had much discussion about the years of 1970 and 1971 [regarding] the RB and B engines - two club publications say blue (Judged sheets etc.) and it appears that official Chrysler (below) says turquoise was correct. On those two years let your original color be the one to use."

It is interesting that the three above sources all say that turquoise was either correct (Chrysler Corp., Florida Chrysler dealer) or possible (Turbinecar) in 1970 and 1971, whereas Mymopar says that turquoise is correct through 1969 and blue is correct from 1970 onward.

To complicate things, Medina's own pan (which is original) suggests -- but is not definitive -- that the original paint was blue, whereas the top is a dead match for the VHT SP126 paint. :BangHead:
 
Last edited:

71Polara383

Kid with ballcap
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
3,292
Reaction score
7,701
Location
Rockford,IL
I've always been under the assumption it was as the Mopar chart has shown.

I have some original blue/turquoise 71 parts from the Brougham, I think today I'll compare it with what is on medinas block, and the intake I have painted as well.
 

Samplingman

Old Man with a Hat
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
5,569
Reaction score
5,995
Location
South Jersey
Citing various inaccuracies in the FSM as an example, “documentation” from Mopar can be wrong. I think the description above is a case in point, or at least up to interpretation. However, there is no way all B/RB motors from ‘62-‘71 were the same color.

Photos are tough to use as proof, since everyone’s device is different, but I’m going by what my eyes are seeing.

Untouched valve covers from a 1969 440:

1F5891D0-E626-4C39-B1B6-BFE9EE32B2CB.jpeg


Untouched valve covers from an early (oct 69) build 1970 440:

13A714B9-D424-40A3-9E27-0C2CF73CF313.jpeg


Untouched valve covers from a later (April 70) build 1970 440:

46D8D650-FA04-4487-80AD-EA6165EB29D9.jpeg


All of these have roughly the same mileage. My opinion, but ‘70 and up 440s should be blue.
 

saforwardlook

Old Man with a Hat
FCBO Gold Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
7,255
Reaction score
12,234
Location
California
All I can do is go by the 30+ mostly original cars I own and 1970 and up were definitely blue, not turquoise. I have never trusted the Mopar aftermarket department for anything accurate when it comes to some of their replacement parts either. I was working in Highland Park's engineering center starting in 1969 so I saw what was being produced.

The guys at mopar writing the labels on the replacement spray cans 5 decades later are referring to what to come to their conclusions? I would guess hearsay from some young B body "expert" or something.
 

71Polara383

Kid with ballcap
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
3,292
Reaction score
7,701
Location
Rockford,IL
This is an original valve cover from my 71 Polara Brougham. I am seeing the VHT being a closer match to this color.

Pic one is Hirsch
Pic two is VHT

Also there is some really clean paint on the bellhousing area of medinas block, matches the original valve cover perfect. (Pic three) Looks more blue green to me then just blue?

20200501_144449.jpg


20200501_144500.jpg


20200501_144948.jpg
 

3175375

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2018
Messages
2,505
Reaction score
4,400
Location
Centerville, South Dakota

saforwardlook

Old Man with a Hat
FCBO Gold Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
7,255
Reaction score
12,234
Location
California
Last edited:
Top