1971 440 T-code Engine repaint -- questions and opinions?

71Polara383

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The sun came back out and I did the test again in natural light.

Pic 1 is original next to Hirsch
Pic 2 is original next to VHT

In my opinion the Hirsch is too light and too pale. The VHT however is very very close.

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ayilar

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From all I've read, the paint on a '71 440 should be the same as on a '70 318. Here is the then-31k-original-miles engine from Poppy, my '70 Polara G-code vert, when she underwent a thorough cleaning uptwo years ago. When I bought her a week or so before the photo below was taken, Poppy's engine had never been opened up or repainted.

--> The areas that got hottest had clearly turned into turquoise, whereas the valve covers and engine bottom did not:

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Which is perfect for bumper jack parts!

I pulled Poppy's original jack today. The pics I took were inside under fluorescent lighting, but they are helpful -- note the different blues of the jack and the hook:

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saforwardlook

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And I am going to beat this horse one more time myself since I don't like a thread coming this far to end in uncertainty. I am currently in the process of painting an engine that will be going into one of my 1971 New Yorker coupes (this one a T code).

Since I have a 46K mile 1971 Imperial, I decided today to clean off a portion of the valve cover on the engine and compare it to the damper I have painted today with the Duplicolor DE 1631 to see just how well they match. My Imperial came from Ohio I believe it was and with its low miles, the engine probably saw no extremely hot conditions, so I was hoping for a valve cover color that would be pretty faithful to what it looked like when new. The valve cover did clean off nicely and seems to represent the original color well, as the paint on the cover still has gloss to it and is smooth. So I put the newly painted damper on top of the cover to see how well the original color matches with the Duplicolor brand when subjected to the same light.

I found that the Duplicolor brand was just a slight bit more blue than the original color on the original cover.

From Wyatt's comparison a couple posts above, it seems the VHT is slightly too light (not quite as blue as it ought to be).

The Hirsch brand seems to be a little more too light than the VHT.

For myself, I am going with the Duplicolor brand on my future engines but I can not criticize anyone that chooses the VHT brand instead and even the Hirsch isn't that bad.

Note that the entire engine when in the shade turns more blue yet like the original probably would too and even my engine shows lighter near the bottom of the timing cover which is in the light.

Also included last is a photo of the engine in the 1971 Imperial currently for sale on Ebay with 24K miles on it but since I don't own it, I can't comment further but it too looks much the same color on the valve cover as my 46K miles Imperial.


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Dobalovr

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Well might as well throw my hat in the ring...

Before and after using Mopar Performance P4120752AB

Sorry for the sideways picture
 

Slantsix

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One more twist, folks.

@71Polara383, with whom I have been performing this inquiry, sent me a photo of the Mopar Performance label. Basically, the car manufacturer's own label says that turquoise is in fact correct for all B/RB engines from 1962 to 1971 except HP engines and that the blue color (that would be correct on a 1969-72 small block engine) is correct on a B/RB starting in 1972 (whereas Hirsch says 1973-1983). That information is repeated at Mopar1.us.

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--> I found an interesting quote (see my highlight in bold) on the Aventura dealer's website: "Used on all “B/RB” big block engines during 1962-71 (with the exception of the 1969-71 high-performance 383/440 engines), was the medium blue-green color (Mopar P4120752). The turquoise color wasn’t very popular, and was often confused with another blue paint by Mopar that turned a little turquoise once the engine heated up." That information, with almost exactly similar wording, can be found in this 2018 Mopar Magazine article.

The funny thing is, it looks like Medina's engine (again, it is numbers-matching and was cast in mid-July 1970) is painted in a blue (cue the pan) that turned turquoise (cue the engine's top).

--> I also found the following quote at turbine car.com: "I have had much discussion about the years of 1970 and 1971 [regarding] the RB and B engines - two club publications say blue (Judged sheets etc.) and it appears that official Chrysler (below) says turquoise was correct. On those two years let your original color be the one to use."

It is interesting that the three above sources all say that turquoise was either correct (Chrysler Corp., Florida Chrysler dealer) or possible (Turbinecar) in 1970 and 1971, whereas Mymopar says that turquoise is correct through 1969 and blue is correct from 1970 onward.

To complicate things, Medina's own pan (which is original) suggests -- but is not definitive -- that the original paint was blue, whereas the top is a dead match for the VHT SP126 paint. :BangHead:
Except, -69 383 4bbl on c-body Chrysler is turquoise, not Hemi Orange. Or maybe Mopar never counted c-body 4bbl as HP engine :confused:
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ayilar

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Well, folks, here is the engine after repaint by @71Polara383. As noted earlier, I decided to go with the Bill Hirsch Chrysler Blue paint, two coats on top of Hirsch primer.

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ayilar

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I followed the Hirsch instructions. VHT has a similar recommendation. That’s good enough for me.

Wyatt tells me that the color looks darker with the primer than it does on the test piece he had painted without. That takes care of the « light color » issue AFAICT.
 

Ripinator

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saforwardlook

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saforwardlook

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I followed the Hirsch instructions. VHT has a similar recommendation. That’s good enough for me.

Wyatt tells me that the color looks darker with the primer than it does on the test piece he had painted without. That takes care of the « light color » issue AFAICT.

I believe your engine color will be just fine and none of the options is perfect. It just looks great overall and the work ahead will just make it dazzle. Just don't drive it too much, you know, like me, so it doesn't deteriorate in appearance too much. :rofl:
 

71Polara383

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Here is mine I painted with the VHT. This is my paint of choice. It took 2 cans to cover vs almost 3 cans of Hirsch used on Ayilars motor.

I will get them outside together in the sunlight for one last side by side comparison.

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saforwardlook

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I believe what might be misleading are different conditions of light but also it seems the original valve cover you are using for reference is more aged due to temperature, oil, gasoline fumes etc than an original one that has seen little aging at 24K pampered miles. None of the available paints is dead on but VHT just seems to be closer to the 69 and earlier blues to me than 70 and up - and with aging, may get even more of a green tint to it.

I do however, use VHT on my exhaust manifolds, as it is a high quality paint that lasts longer than any other brand I have tried to date:
VHT Exhaust Manifold Paint.jpg
 
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Big_John

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Here is mine I painted with the VHT. This is my paint of choice. It took 2 cans to cover vs almost 3 cans of Hirsch used on Ayilars motor.

I will get them outside together in the sunlight for one last side by side comparison.

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If you ever build the twin engine Polara wagon you've always talked about, those two engines aren't going to look good together.
 
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