383 or 440 for my amateur vision

mikedrini

mikedrini

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Happy December,

Plenty of early snow up here. Stuck inside until the lakes freeze and I can go ice fishing and I find myself at a crossroads needing your sage-like opinions/constructive criticism/insults/butt-hurt comments.

My 64 New Yorker has a 383 that I just pulled. I would like to drop in a 440 and stroke it up. Understandably it will take money and time, but I wanted to hear what you guys thought. The typical first response when someone wants to customize their car is, "What do you want your car to be", except this is obviously a cruising car, not a dragster. That being said, I guess ultimately what I am asking is, if I am looking for more oomf, torque, horsepower out of my car, is it worth switching to the 440 or should I stroke out my 383?

I know it sounds crazy and stupid, but I have this custom vision of my black beauty with a 440 in it, B&M/TCI tranny, updated rear gear and a supercharger. What?? WHY??...Moron...After reviewing several threads, I know the drill, but can it be done?

I like the look of a roots style blower and wanted the professional's opinions. No I don't want to take it to the track, but I would like to get as much out of it as a street car as possible and have that "look". Be kind, leave a little meat on my bones so that my wife will recognize me.

Current Specs are pretty stock as far as I can tell, but I've had this vehicle for 6 years without knowing the history:
383 bored .30 over 8-20-69 2468130-7
Unsure about the Camshaft: has the numbers 454 10 and A25 on it?
Stock Torque Converter? Has 130 teeth, but no names or decals, sort of a light blue
Harmonic Balancer: MB-1604-2 7
Crankshaft says 55
Piston Rods: DF10 MS304 MS3049
Piston: 366NP
Cylinder Heads: 2406516-7
2780915-5
Differential: 2070742
Transmission: 727

Mike
 
What you want is what you want, go for it and good luck! If I'm not mistaken a 64 New Yorker had a 413 so the 383 isn't original anyway so have at it!
 
You are correct! I bought the car with a little over 50,000 miles on it with the current setup, so I'm not sure about the vehicle history at all. More perplexing was the non-matching heads 516 and a 915. Not really sure the difference between the two or if I should find a matching head for one of the others.
 
A lot of this depends on how much money you want to spend. Upgrading to a 440 and rebuilding it will be significantly cheaper than going full hog on a stroker for your 383. You need to have some serious thinking about how much to spend and what type of horsepower you want to get out of the finished product. There is no right or wrong answer here, you just want the car to make you happy when you are done modifying it.

Dave
 
Davea Lux said:
A lot of this depends on how much money you want to spend. Upgrading to a 440 and rebuilding it will be significantly cheaper than going full hog on a stroker for your 383. You need to have some serious thinking about how much to spend and what type of horsepower you want to get out of the finished product. There is no right or wrong answer here, you just want the car to make you happy when you are done modifying it.

Dave
Click to expand...

Hey Dave,

Much appreciated and I agree. I am paying as I go, so it's not out of the realm that I can throw money at it. I was looking at crates, but I would rather build it myself to be honest (machining aside).
 
www.cmengines.com

20181013_095944.jpg
 
In looking forward a bit, when looking for a 440 short block , anyone out there to be vouched for? I see Ebay, Craigslist and some guy named the Mopardude in Kansas. Didn't know if anyone had any recommendations.
 
mikedrini said:
In looking forward a bit, when looking for a 440 short block , anyone out there to be vouched for? I see Ebay, Craigslist and some guy named the Mopardude in Kansas. Didn't know if anyone had any recommendations.
Click to expand...
Best bet is to keep a search going on Craigslist for a used 440 block.
If it's in good shape (Spins freely, etc) and is complete, you might get one for around 750 bucks, +-.
Do NOT buy a built engine from a private party.
 
Well, I dunno if I'm a "sage" or not, but I have at least one question: you listed 2 different head numbers - does the motor in there now have 2 different heads?

I don't know what you plan on doing for headers, and this detail alone might set up your decision. The added ~1" width and ~1/2" height difference between the exhaust port flange locations can and will make you hate your car if you're not setup correctly.

There will be a learning curve getting a roots blown engine tuned right; if at some point you get it wrong and it blows up, you didn't go out of your way to find a 440. I know it's fun to say "440" to your friends, but especially if you're planning the boost route, I'd start with that 383. It automatically has a forged crank and the rotating assembly and pushrods are lighter. I have my money where my mouth is: I will never own or bother with a 10.72" deck block again...unless I win the lottery and obtain some kind of museum "440" car.

Just my $0.02...

Edit: BUT I could also again see the "bragging rights" aspect of saying "blown 440." I realize it's a cool right - do what you must!
 
mikedrini said:
Hey Dave,

Much appreciated and I agree. I am paying as I go, so it's not out of the realm that I can throw money at it. I was looking at crates, but I would rather build it myself to be honest (machining aside).
Click to expand...

Just some advice:
1. The stock convertor will need to be replaced with anything other than a mild cam
2. Transmission valve body and governor should be modified to match a higher stall speed convertor
3. Stock clutch packs and bands should be upgraded to match the first two above.

You need to figure out which gear ratio is now in the car and if that ratio will match your projected horsepower and stall speed for the convertor.

You can get 600hp out of a 383 stroker or a 440 with the right heads and cam. A 600 horse 440 will be less stressed than a 600hp 383 stroker, so that is a consideration if you are primarily going to use this as a street machine. I personally would not build a 600hp engine to run on the street, but we all have our own ideas.

Mopar got 390 hp out of the 6BBL engines which were mostly an upgraded Magnum or 440 high performance, or TNT engine. Those engines could pull something in the neighborhood of 500 horses with a good port job, headers and better camshaft. With today's high tensile rods and improved pistons and maybe an aftermarket crank in stock dimensions, the 500 horse number is readily achievable.

Do some homework and look at the various possibilities for your build, which ever way you decide to go.

Dave
 
AF. said:
Well, I dunno if I'm a "sage" or not, but I have at least one question: you listed 2 different head numbers - does the motor in there now have 2 different heads?

I don't know what you plan on doing for headers, and this detail alone might set up your decision. The added ~1" width and ~1/2" height difference between the exhaust port flange locations can and will make you hate your car if you're not setup correctly.

There will be a learning curve getting a roots blown engine tuned right; if at some point you get it wrong and it blows up, you didn't go out of your way to find a 440. I know it's fun to say "440" to your friends, but especially if you're planning the boost route, I'd start with that 383. It automatically has a forged crank and the rotating assembly and pushrods are lighter. I have my money where my mouth is: I will never own or bother with a 10.72" deck block again...unless I win the lottery and obtain some kind of museum "440" car.

Just my $0.02...

Edit: BUT I could also again see the "bragging rights" aspect of saying "blown 440." I realize it's a cool right - do what you must!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the words and yes, the car came with two different cylinder heads on it (one is a 516 and the other a 915). As far as the headers go, they would definitely have to either be custom fabricated or I could look into the shorty style. The 64 was right before the C body frame came out and there are no easily made/readily available full length headers for it.
 
Davea Lux said:
Just some advice:
1. The stock convertor will need to be replaced with anything other than a mild cam
2. Transmission valve body and governor should be modified to match a higher stall speed convertor
3. Stock clutch packs and bands should be upgraded to match the first two above.

You need to figure out which gear ratio is now in the car and if that ratio will match your projected horsepower and stall speed for the convertor.

You can get 600hp out of a 383 stroker or a 440 with the right heads and cam. A 600 horse 440 will be less stressed than a 600hp 383 stroker, so that is a consideration if you are primarily going to use this as a street machine. I personally would not build a 600hp engine to run on the street, but we all have our own ideas.

Mopar got 390 hp out of the 6BBL engines which were mostly an upgraded Magnum or 440 high performance, or TNT engine. Those engines could pull something in the neighborhood of 500 horses with a good port job, headers and better camshaft. With today's high tensile rods and improved pistons and maybe an aftermarket crank in stock dimensions, the 500 horse number is readily achievable.

Do some homework and look at the various possibilities for your build, which ever way you decide to go.

Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice Dave, I assure you it is much appreciated. My notebook for this build will be vast, so yours will be duly noted. Aside from reading through a couple of the buildup books out there for BB Mopars, I wanted to come here next. Your thought about the 440 being less stressed was exactly what I was thinking when I started this.
 
I disagree that a 440 is cheaper than a stroked 383. By the time you buy the engine and accessories, you’re looking at the difference in price between a regular piston kit and a stroker kit.

The real issue is the mismatched heads. That means you’re buying new heads and then will need to rebuild them. If you’re getting aftermarket heads then it’s a moot point.

But that’s all small potatoes compared to the conflict between the brief and your later comments. Is this a dream engine making big power with a blower, or a budget build?

Answer that before you start asking about more details.
 
mikedrini said:
Thanks for the advice Dave, I assure you it is much appreciated. My notebook for this build will be vast, so yours will be duly noted. Aside from reading through a couple of the buildup books out there for BB Mopars, I wanted to come here next. Your thought about the 440 being less stressed was exactly what I was thinking when I started this.
Click to expand...

If you decide to build a stroker 383, check out this site: www.musclemotorsracing.com

Dave
 
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