'68 Fury 318 stock radiator replacement with Cold Case

[Zaggart]

Hey All,

Looking to replace my radiator asap this spring and since I've never done one before I thought I'd ask in the hopes that someone may have a similar setup.
I currently have a Chrysler 2898 038 18398 (18x22, no a/c) which appears functionally identical to the Cold Case MOP751A. In chatting with the CC rep this morning he did mention it would be thicker than the stock one (which I hadn't considered for some reason) at 3". It appears the current rad is around 2" and the fixed-blade fan is 1" away now so this concerns me greatly. However, it also appears that with the brackets the original sticks out several inches from the frame, does anyone know if the CC rads fit more flush with the frame to accommodate the extra thickness? I don't have any fabrication options so this needs to be a drop-in replacement. I'm not knowledgeable enough to go messing around with different fan options either.

The goal is to improve cooling enough to attend maybe a parade or two without seeing uncomfortable needle creep while sitting. It has an electric fan as well now but that is marginal help at best.

Thanks!

 

[FURYGT]

Why not send your existing radiator out and have a 3 row core installed with the existing tanks and flush out the block and heater core. Another consideration might be to add a reproduction 2-piece metal shroud to your existing radiator. I can't help with cold case radiators but if you go that route and the fan to radiator clearance is to tight you can try to find a shorter fan spacer.

What temperature thermostat are you using?

 

[Big_John]

It looks like you have a pretty think spacer under that fan. To get more clearance, the easiest thing would be a thinner spacer.

I think that aftermarket electric fans are more trouble than they are worth... They block as much air as they pull in.

I would suggest sourcing a Mopar 18 1/2" diameter fan and clutch. My personal choice for a fan clutch is the heavy duty Hayden 2747. Check the length on that before you buy though.

EDIT: removed my remarks about flex fan.

 

[CBODY67]

I concur that the path of least resistance would be a shorter fan spacer. They are available aftermarket in many thicknesses.

One of the best deals used to be the Mopar Perf Fan Kit. This was an OEM-production grade fan clutch and a 5-blade production fan. But this was before electric fans and fwd were dominant, so not sure about that route, now. The referenced Hayden item and a matching fan should keep things cool, with either a re-done stock radiator or an aftermarket radiator.

Short of going to the Hayden website, you might find the specs for that item at www.rockauto.com, clicking on the "INFO" icon for that Hayden part number. Might get a fan from that source, to match it, too?

There might be some illustrations of the CC radiator specs and such on their website? If so, it should include the mounting diagrams, very possibly, which could answer your question as to the mounting issues.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Zaggart]

Thanks guys, I didn't even know that fan spacers are a thing. I'll check that out. I'm sure having it recored, etc. is probably the best way to go but that type of thing and/or swapping in a clutch fan is beyond me.

I could've sworn the existing fan is a fixed blade and not a flex, is there not a difference?

I of course will keep the old one so whomever gets it when I'm gone can return it to stock.

 

[Big_John]

Thanks guys, I didn't even know that fan spacers are a thing. I'll check that out. I'm sure having it recored, etc. is probably the best way to go but that type of thing and/or swapping in a clutch fan is beyond me.

I could've sworn the existing fan is a fixed blade and not a flex, is there not a difference?

I of course will keep the old one so whomever gets it when I'm gone can return it to stock.

Oops... I read it wrong. Saw "Fixed" and read "flex".

I edited my post so to reflect my dumb... Sorry.

 

[Zaggart]

Oops... I read it wrong. Saw "Fixed" and read "flex".

I edited my post so to reflect my dumb... Sorry.

Oh no worries. That's a huge relief, I've read the posts about sheet metal or limb loss with those too.

 

[FURYGT]

Ask around for a good radiator shop and bring them your radiator and tell them what you want.

 

[D Cluley]

Check with Lansing radiator. They are on Larch just south of Saginaw St. I got mine repaired there years ago.

 

[customsportsman]

Are you close to Mt. Clemens, MI? If so, look into Superior Radiator. They will hook you up with whatever you need.

 

[Zaggart]

Would having it worked over by a radiator shop provide a noticeable increase in cooling over a new aluminum one? There's nothing wrong with the stock one per se, just looking for the biggest (and easiest) improvement without a fan shroud.

And to answer an earlier question, I'm guessing it currently has a 180deg thermostat but haven't torn it apart yet. I have a new replacement for that as well.

 

[Big_John]

Would having it worked over by a radiator shop provide a noticeable increase in cooling over a new aluminum one? There's nothing wrong with the stock one per se, just looking for the biggest (and easiest) improvement without a fan shroud.

And to answer an earlier question, I'm guessing it currently has a 180deg thermostat but haven't torn it apart yet. I have a new replacement for that as well.

You get into the debate of aluminum v. copper with that question.

The way I understand it, given everything equal, the copper radiator will be better. The aluminum radiators are better because they are bigger. Folks report better cooling because they are probably replacing something that is either marginal in size or in compromised condition.

So, nothing wrong at all with aluminum radiators... Honestly, I like the look of the OE radiator and most of the time, cooling issues can be something else all together. If I had a stock radiator in decent shape, I would look into getting it re-cored with a thicker core.

FWIW, I run a 160 degree T-Stat. I've found it does take a few degrees off the average temperature. People disagree with me on that, but the results are there. YMMV

 

[Zaggart]

You get into the debate of aluminum v. copper with that question.

The way I understand it, given everything equal, the copper radiator will be better. The aluminum radiators are better because they are bigger. Folks report better cooling because they are probably replacing something that is either marginal in size or in compromised condition.

So, nothing wrong at all with aluminum radiators... Honestly, I like the look of the OE radiator and most of the time, cooling issues can be something else all together. If I had a stock radiator in decent shape, I would look into getting it re-cored with a thicker core.

FWIW, I run a 160 degree T-Stat. I've found it does take a few degrees off the average temperature. People disagree with me on that, but the results are there. YMMV

Perfect, I'll go with that and take it over to Lansing Radiator in a few weeks when I get her out of storage to see what they can do. I'll keep the t-stat option in mind as even I can replace that easy enough if need be.

Thanks everyone!

 

[CBODY67]

Considering that the cars were designed around a copper core radiator, that is the performance benchmark we have to go on. Same with heater cores. Only evolving thing about them is that they are held together with lead solder . . . we all know that lead has always been a "bad thing", but worked well. But a strong benefit of lead soldered radiators is that they are rebuildable! Until the flanges on the tanks are thinned/reduced enough that sealing is compromised, at which time a new tank will be needed. Been there, done that.

As with anything else, there are people who knew how to do a good clean-up and re-assemble of the radiators, plus others who might not have been quite as diligent on doing a good job . . . even in America. But if everybody did a decent job of cleaning, then the other factor in longevity is the solder itself (obviously available in different cost/benefit levels?). Obviously, the local shops either did a mediocre job of cleaning and/or used "good enough" solder rather than OEM-grade, as their clean-up jobs only lasted about 2.5 years at best, compared to longer with a new radiator in a new car with good antifreeze in it.

When the radiator tank seam in my '70 Monaco (which I had bought a year or so prior) started to leak, I priced the re-do job. It was very near what I could get a new Modine OEM-replacement radiator for, at work. So I bought new and it lasted as well as one would in a new car. I was happy. The industry number for that car's radiator (26" w/ac and TF) is "332".

ALSO, in an older car, the OTHER part of the cooling system which is forgotten about is the engine block's coolant passages. We usually never worry about them unless a core plug starts to leak (from rust issues IN those passages, even with good coolant in them). But as messy as flushing out the block can be, we tend to forget about that, but the rear of the block is where the sediment settles out as that is the lowest part of the block itself.

Usually, though, re-doing the radiator can put things "back right enough" in many cases. But the cars are now well old enough that those block passages could well need to be flushed out and the core plugs replaced with good ones. Of course, an engine rebuild (with the block being cleaned out at that time), works too. So, you might get an IR heat gun, get the engine fully up to operating temperature from driving about 20 miles on the highway, and then use the heat gun to check the temps on the sides of the engine block and parts of the radiator for temp variations and such.

Sorry for the length, just some observations over time,
CBODY67

 

[Boydsdodge]

Another option is to find a rad, fan and shroud from a max cooling Fury of same year. Have the rad checked out and install the new cooling system while keeping it original looking.
Thats what I do for some of my clients.

 

[Zaggart]

So it appears that I somehow have a B-body rad (2898038) which adds to the Google-confusion for me. Am I reading this correctly from the service manual that automatic 318's without a/c did not come with shrouds? It's definitely no taxi.

 

[FURYGT]

That’s correct but a B & C body radiator shroud should fit the radiator that you have. I added one to my ‘68 Fury with a 22” radiator.

 

[Zaggart]

That’s correct but a B & C body radiator shroud should fit the radiator that you have. I added one to my ‘68 Fury with a 22” radiator.

Do you happen to have a part number for that by chance?

 

[fury fan]

How have you verified that the radiator is your problem? There are numerous other things that can cause an engine to start running hotter when in traffic.
Could be a fluid-flow problem, an airflow problem, or a heat-transfer problem in the engine (excessive crud buildup, improper anitifreeze mix, etc.).
If you have a laser temperature gun, you can take the temperature of each channel of your radiator and see if any are noticeably different than the others. (plugged passages would be cooler?)
If all are pretty even, and you don't see a lot of crud when looking down the radiator neck, your radiator may be OK.

My shade-tree method to test a radiator is to disconnect the lower hose, plug it with my hand, and fill the radiator up to the top.
Then remove my hand and make sure the radiator can flow the garden hose without ever coming out the radiator neck. (watch it for 5 min)
That might not suffice for hot climates, or larger engines, but seems OK for Indiana. Should be OK for a stock 318 in Michigan.

If everything is working kinda-OK, a very simple upgrade would be a higher-flow fan - unless my eyes are mistaken, you have a 4-blade?
As @Big_John said, a fan with clutch would be an upgrade.
Or even a fixed fan with more blades.

As a former engine-cooling fan engineer, without knowing the engineering specs of our cooling systems, I would say that you will get more airflow from a higher blade count fan, or a larger-dia fan, than you will from adding a shroud to the fan you have. A shroud's effectiveness is based on how far the fan is immersed into the shroud, and also the tip-clearance to the shroud. As the factory never used a shroud with the 4-blade, we don't know how well they'll work together.

Changing to a lower-temp thermostat might help in some cases. The thing to consider is that it does NOT lower the equilibrium operating temperature UNLESS the cooling system is capable to cool it to that temperature. If it can't, a lower-temp thermostat merely delays how long it takes to get to equilibrium.

 

[Zaggart]

How have you verified that the radiator is your problem? There are numerous other things that can cause an engine to start running hotter when in traffic.
Could be a fluid-flow problem, an airflow problem, or a heat-transfer problem in the engine (excessive crud buildup, improper anitifreeze mix, etc.).
If you have a laser temperature gun, you can take the temperature of each channel of your radiator and see if any are noticeably different than the others. (plugged passages would be cooler?)
If all are pretty even, and you don't see a lot of crud when looking down the radiator neck, your radiator may be OK.

My shade-tree method to test a radiator is to disconnect the lower hose, plug it with my hand, and fill the radiator up to the top.
Then remove my hand and make sure the radiator can flow the garden hose without ever coming out the radiator neck. (watch it for 5 min)
That might not suffice for hot climates, or larger engines, but seems OK for Indiana. Should be OK for a stock 318 in Michigan.

If everything is working kinda-OK, a very simple upgrade would be a higher-flow fan - unless my eyes are mistaken, you have a 4-blade?
As @Big_John said, a fan with clutch would be an upgrade.
Or even a fixed fan with more blades.

As a former engine-cooling fan engineer, without knowing the engineering specs of our cooling systems, I would say that you will get more airflow from a higher blade count fan, or a larger-dia fan, than you will from adding a shroud to the fan you have. A shroud's effectiveness is based on how far the fan is immersed into the shroud, and also the tip-clearance to the shroud. As the factory never used a shroud with the 4-blade, we don't know how well they'll work together.

Changing to a lower-temp thermostat might help in some cases. The thing to consider is that it does NOT lower the equilibrium operating temperature UNLESS the cooling system is capable to cool it to that temperature. If it can't, a lower-temp thermostat merely delays how long it takes to get to equilibrium.

You're correct, I haven't verified anything unfortunately. I think the problem is that I admittedly know diddly-squat about these details of older vehicles and of course Google doesn't have much info either. It feels like I'm teaching myself rocket science on an actual rocket with a braille manual. LOL

Laser temp gun? No idea what that is.

I think I'm going to just assume that cooling is otherwise as efficient as it can be with the current setup and start with a fixed fan having more blades. Do you happen to know who might sell a direct replacement for the 4 blade?

I *think* I also may have found a factory sized shroud so hopefully those two may be the simplest solution for now.

Thanks guys and sorry for all the questions. My win/loss repair ratio ain't that great at the moment but I just want to "do no harm" to my baby here.