Bad power brake booster?

Ask Stan ....... he's one of them
I can answer that too. Some were never car guys until they bought their first Vette and their first gold chain. They never busted their knuckles and got dirty.

When I bought my 91 C4, I joined the local club etc and soon found I did not fit in at all. I could actually turn a wrench and wasn't afraid to get me or my car dirty. Most of the Vette guys can't even imagine doing their own work. Some even look down at those that do. I have some stories....

Long story short.... they don't understand us and we don't understand them.

I still have my Corvette. 13 years now as a matter of fact. It's been a good car too. I never tried to fit in with anyone, I just liked the car. It is for sale now.. I've grown tired of it and Mrs. Big John has some severe back issues and can't get out of it very well any more.
 
Wow! It must of moved very slow with all of those cars...

For Real !! If an intersection had a stop sign, it may take 45 minutes to an hour to get through the intersection. Lots of over-heated cars and such. I can't imagine how long it would take if everyone followed the specified route. Some people went their own way, which was fine as long as you got your credentials stamped at the venues in the evening. We got lost in Hot Springs, AR for a while but finally found the right road to get on to go to Little Rock. But, even getting lost a few times, it was still great fun.
 
I learned that at the 90th Harley Homecoming in Milwaukee.
 
What Big_John and commando1 said. Tires stop the car. If all 4 tires skid at the same point, the brakes can't do any better than that, and functioning drums can skid the tires, and do it evenly. Of course, you want to brake until just before you skid, which nobody can judge so you skid-off-skid, i.e. pump the brakes in a panic stop, which is what anti-lock brakes do. Does anybody here really believe that drum brakes can't skid the tires? Even my Newport's massive 11"x3" front drums? Don't compare old specs for our cars that were measured with narrow bias-ply tires. The feds mandated front disks in 1973 because unskilled drivers would ride the brakes down long hills, experience fade, and run off the cliff. Disks cool off quicker. In the North Carolina mountains they can spot Florida drivers from miles away by the smell of burning brakes. Rear disks are mostly for marketing in today's cars.

Going back to the original question. Perhaps your master cylinder piston is bottoming out. If everything is factory, it shouldn't do that until the pedal is almost on the floor, but who knows what rebuilt parts have been swapped. You would have to take it off and push it in with a socket extension and measure, then compare to your pedal. Not simple. It is possible that you lost your booster. My 65 Newport became very hard to stop and I found the booster had a torn diaphragm, and a rear seal was leaking oil. If you press the pedal real hard with both feet, I would think that either the fronts or rears would skid. That should be true even if you lost one of the 2 systems in your car. In that case the imbalance warning light should light, but the switch is often rusted in place or the bulb could be out. People have also found rubber hoses failed internally and the rubber closing off as pressure builds. Bleed all the wheels until you get clear fluid. You need to do that every few years unless using DOT 5 like I do. I once couldn't get anything to flow from an 82 Aries caliper until the assistant used 2 feet and a bunch of rust gunk blew out. No more glycol fluid for me since then, even living now in bone-dry CA.
 
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My '69 Polara has factory power drum brakes. They work fine in normal driving but if I step on the pedal for a "panic" stop the pedal just gets rock hard and it doesn't slow down any quicker. Has anyone experienced this before? I have driven other cars with this problem and asking around some brake shops they say the usual crap like "duh what about new pads and rotors?" I know what worn brakes feel like, they are still linear and it shouldn't affect the pedal feel like that where you can't panic stop worth a damn.

Let me know how you make out with this. I am having the exact problem with my 67 Fury. I was thinking check valve for the vacuum line. Before anyone starts to tell me to change over to disc brakes. No, I am not doing that. The drums worked fine up until last week.
 
That is one hell of a great post!!!! That is why I love this site! I am smarter now then when I woke up! Excellent!!!!!!
What Big_John and commando1 said. Tires stop the car. If all 4 tires skid at the same point, the brakes can't do any better than that, and functioning drums can skid the tires, and do it evenly. Of course, you want to brake until just before you skid, which nobody can judge so you skid-off-skid, i.e. pump the brakes in a panic stop, which is what anti-lock brakes do. Does anybody here really believe that drum brakes can't skid the tires? Even my Newport's massive 11"x3" front drums? Don't compare old specs for our cars that were measured with narrow bias-ply tires. The feds mandated front disks in 1973 because unskilled drivers would ride the brakes down long hills, experience fade, and run off the cliff. Disks cool off quicker. In the North Carolina mountains they can spot Florida drivers from miles away by the smell of burning brakes. Rear disks are mostly for marketing in today's cars.

Going back to the original question. Perhaps your master cylinder piston is bottoming out. If everything is factory, it shouldn't do that until the pedal is almost on the floor, but who knows what rebuilt parts have been swapped. You would have to take it off and push it in with a socket extension and measure, then compare to your pedal. Not simple. It is possible that you lost your booster. My 65 Newport became very hard to stop and I found the booster had a torn diaphragm, and a rear seal was leaking oil. If you press the pedal real hard with both feet, I would think that either the fronts or rears would skid. That should be true even if you lost one of the 2 systems in your car. In that case the imbalance warning light should light, but the switch is often rusted in place or the bulb could be out. People have also found rubber hoses failed internally and the rubber closing off as pressure builds. Bleed all the wheels until you get clear fluid. You need to do that every few years unless using DOT 5 like I do. I once couldn't get anything to flow from an 82 Aries caliper until the assistant used 2 feet and a bunch of rust gunk blew out. No more glycol fluid for me since then, even living now in bone-dry CA.
 
PS, I still went with discs up front for that warm and fuzzy feeling, I believe I am cooler now. The more we discuss the brakes, the more I have faith in the drums. I Probably should have stuck with the drums for what I do with my car, but like I said, warm and fuzzy.
 
If someone has the time, energy, and money, a disk brake conversion is worthwhile. It's the OMFG I'M GONNA DIE FROM DRUM BRAKES mentality that's unwarranted.

< Sent from my tablet >
 
Just updating to let you know I'm still here lol... Thanks for the great replies, I've received all the brake parts and started to put the front end back together until I had to move out of my apartment basically on my own :sleepy3: I am currently on vacation with family in Maine and will be in Philadelphia and D.C. over the next couple weeks but should be back home in Denver on July 12 and will get back to work on the Polara as soon as I can. It won't be a while until I can test the new brakes though since I'm also in the middle of tearing down/pulling the engine for an overhaul and repaint.
 
Hey.....all that work and no pictures????

C'mon Dusted......we're a visual crowd here. :poke:

Enjoy your trip and post some pictures when you get home.

:3gears:
 
Some car guys bought their first Vette and their first gold chain.

Stan, what did you do with your gold chains??? :poke:

t-pain-gold-grillz.jpg

t-pain-gold-grillz.jpg
 
Update. I checked the check valve by starting the car and pulling the valve and putting my hand over the outlet. No leakage. Reinstalled the valve into the booster and no leakage from the grommet. Pumped the brakes while running and can hear air leakage. One of the diaphragms is leaking internally. Rather then try to disassemble the booster and get parts (it is 46 years old) I ordered a reman from RockAuto. $192.66 shipped to Canada. I didn't bother with a new MC as the one on my car is obviously newer then stock. The top is held on by a typical wire instead of the stock bolt and bracket.
 
Sorry for the lack of pics I will try to remember when I get back to work on the car this time... When I work on cars I tend to get "in the zone" and forget about things like taking pictures, not to mention I hate dirtying up my smart phone with my grimy hands lol. What do you want to see pics of anyway? There isn't really much to see in regards to this brake stuff it's pretty straightforward and the car was decently taken care of so I didn't run into any "horror story" type stuff, just typical wear & tear from being driven over 40 years.
 
For others, somebody was recently quoted $125 at NAPA to have their booster sent in and rebuilt. I can't recall if here or on the A-body forum. The Midland-Ross booster on my 65 Newport failed. I took it apart and found a hole and hard rubber right at the vacuum port, so must have been attack by gas fumes. The rest of the diaphragm was soft. I even used an in-line filter for Mopars that is supposed to trap fumes. I had bought that booster from an auto parts in 1992. Perhaps the ethanol in gas today is a problem, or maybe they just last ~27 years. I found no place to buy internal parts. I later bought a new booster w/ MC for only $70 on rockauto, clearance. Before that, I had an M-R booster from a 73 Dart on. It looked almost identical, except the bolt pattern differed so I had to drill holes in the firewall plate.
 
Bill, what do you know about whether GM boosters perhaps interchanging.

< Sent from my tablet >
 
Judging from photos on ebay, GM boosters have a threaded rod instead of the ring end for the pedal that we need. I don't know if their rod can be pulled out of the booster like Mopar rods can, to swap. You can find GM style boosters for Mopar A-bodies on ebay, but different than C-bodies since A-bodies use stand-off brackets from the firewall with a lever system. They install an end on the GM threaded rod that is like our pedal rod end, but a smaller hole for the A-body lever. Maybe somebody makes an adapter to the pedal end we need. I would guess the mounting bolts would also be a different pattern, which you might fix by drilling new holes, if they don't interfere with something on the other side. GM boosters are cheap and available. Another thought is a hydro-booster which is small and runs off the power steering pump pressure. Some A-body guys have used them. A booster that works for a B or E body should be closer, since they have the adapter plate like C-bodies, and I guess the same pedal hole (A & C are same I recall).
 
I'd give my left nut to have a template of the holes and to be able to go into a parts store , be given free reign in that aisle uninterupted, and do a test fit on every cheap booster that's always on the shelf.
 
You could try this as well with the formal rear discs in a European shop; I wouldn't be surprised to find something fitting as well.
 
I had an original Studebaker Avanti. Studebaker. Keep that in mind.
Went to do the front disc brakes on it.
Obsolete Jaguar....
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:
 
The last Studebakers were like the last AMC Jeeps..... Made up of whatever was available. My last Jeep, a Grand Wagoneer, had Ford ignition, Chrysler auto trans with a NPG transfer case and Chevy brakes along with a mismatch of what was in the parts bin that day.
 
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