Can Old Brake Shoes outlive their effectiveness-even though there's plenty of "meat" on them?

watchfatha

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My 64 Imperial began to experience erratic braking-sometimes too sharp, sometimes not sharp enough. I started by examining the shoes and drums and found everything to be in spec, not out of round-hoses good, too. So, I replaced the master cylinder and bled the brakes, several times. I still have a bit of the problem and there's a screeching noise coming from the front brakes. They are NOT hot to the touch after driving, and there is no scoring or discoloration of the drums, so I know they are not heating up. But I wonder if the brake shoe material has lost its effectiveness because they are old, and because the car sat for about 10 years before I got it.

So, does anybody know: do shoes go bad?

Thanks
 
Brake linings that separate from their backing should be replaced, but age alone is not huge, condition and wear are more important.

Chrysler did not approve of riveted linings because they cause rotor and drum damage that would make machining parts impossible.

Contaminated linings also can cause noise concerns. If grease, brake fluid, or any substance that effects friction is on linings that warrants replacement.
 
Last edited:
O.K.
Advice from a Self Professed Expert (And Master of Nothing.)
Without Looking at the Vehicle, Here are My Suggestions.
1. Check That the Ends of the Brake Shoes are Chamfered.
2. Check to See that the Shoes and / or Drums Aren't Glaced. (A Good Massage with Coarse Sand Paper Should Show a Result if That's the Problem)
3. I'm Assuming There are No Detectable Fluid Leaks?
4. Final Suggestion, if You Do Suspect the Shoes, a New Set Really isn't a Lot of Money and maybe Think of the Semi Metallic Linings They Have a Bit More Bite
(For the Small Cost Involved If That Doesn't Work at Least You'll Have New Brakes!)
Also Check Where the Shoe Rides Against the Drum, The Squeal May be the Result of the Shoe Shifting Slightly and Rubbing.
A Number of Years ago I Bought a Couple of (Don't Know What to Call Them) Small Parts Kits for Drum Brakes?, from Rock Auto Dirt Cheap!
(Your Retaining Springs May Have Lost Their Tension over the Years.)
Having Said All That I'd Also Like to Say That We All Develop a Few Squeaks & Rattles in Our Latter Years and at the Cars Age I Think She's Entitled. LOL!
Kind Regards Tony.M
 
"Glazing" usually happens from heat, not inactivity, BUT what might be happening is surface rust on the inner area of the brake drum. I suspect that if the brakes might initially grab on the first few stops, it's that surface rust which is being worn off. After it's worn down or smoothed out, then things work smoothly again.

One "allegedly bad thing" about riveted brake linings is that in extreme situations, plus some lower-quality friction materials (in some cases), I found some pictures where the lining material had broken around the rivets and then disappeared, leaving one or more of the rivets dangling from the brake shoe. Whereas the bonded linings were solidly-glued to the brake shoe, to better dissipate the heat and such . . . or so it was claimed. Back then, GM used riveted linings exclusively at OEM, so if bonded linings were ultimately better, but a slight bit more expensive, then Chrysler went the additional "mile" with the bonded linings. Plus, almost all GM linings back then had a groove down the middle, decreasing total lining area, but the bonded linings usually did not. Several things at play here.

If a lining might get hard with age, the usual result is more brake pedal pressure needed to stop the car, not grabbing and such. Which is why I suspect the inner brake drum finish, especially in a more humid environment. The other thing is that if you have been driving a power disc brake car and then get into a power drum brake car, you have to be cautious the first few brake applications, even in the ddriveway, so you don't "eat steering wheel".

Just my observations and experiences,
CBODY67
 
More brake BS
I have a minor degree in automotive technology and i build cars that will go very fast for more than 15 seconds and can run 130+ so I might know something about brakes. The rivets vs bonding is bs, the groove in the middle is bs and most of all asbestos lining suck and should never ever be used. Yes it is very important for the shoes to match the drums so there is full contact. Other than that quit listening to the blathering - Use a semi metallic lining/carbon metallic lining. You old koots on here are still stuck in the 70s & full of hot air. Chrysler offered metallic linings as an option.....look in the books, it's in the galen white books and the mopar parts books. Chrysler made cop car brake pads for both slider and pin calipers, cop shocks and metallic linings. It's in the parts books which apparently no one refers too. Remember none of these guys like me....lol
 
As Rush Limbaugh would say:
"Wisdom guided by experience."
 
More brake BS
I have a minor degree in automotive technology and i build cars that will go very fast for more than 15 seconds and can run 130+ so I might know something about brakes. The rivets vs bonding is bs, the groove in the middle is bs and most of all asbestos lining suck and should never ever be used. Yes it is very important for the shoes to match the drums so there is full contact. Other than that quit listening to the blathering - Use a semi metallic lining/carbon metallic lining. You old koots on here are still stuck in the 70s & full of hot air. Chrysler offered metallic linings as an option.....look in the books, it's in the galen white books and the mopar parts books. Chrysler made cop car brake pads for both slider and pin calipers, cop shocks and metallic linings. It's in the parts books which apparently no one refers too. Remember none of these guys like me....lol
Well, to be fair, it's not a very likeable style of comment.
 
Another area to watch for is the contact area where the shoes touch the backing plate. They can get rusty or grooves resulting in sticking shoes.
 
EVERYONE with Intelligence and Experience knows that the old Asbestos brake shoes and brake pads are 50 times more efficient and effective than this new Chineseum garbage of today....

Because of the E P A and the laws, Asbestos has been outlawed, and the brake world has been trying for 29 years , without success , to duplicate the far superior quality of N.O.S. Asbestos.....

And, cooling grooves , in the middle of the lining , are spectacular in their nature , in that they serve to cool brakes.... Anyone who would reject the notion that they don't have much value, is indeed delusional....
(Ask the NASCAR world at short tracks how important cooling brake systems are --- vital, of course...)
 
Yes, the "cop brake linings" in the 1970s came from a rebuilder in Amarillo, TX. There was a page in the parts book, not a part of the main listings OR in the "Police/Taxi" section, so it was sent out to dealers' parts departments separately. Ordered directly from them, not Chrysler Parts. Perhaps that particular rebuilder only served the Dallas Zone dealers? Not sure.

Regards,
CBODY67
 
Because of the E P A and the laws, Asbestos has been outlawed, and the brake world has been trying for 29 years , without success , to duplicate the far superior quality of N.O.S. Asbestos.....
careful with this. brakes and clutches are still made with asbestos. Asbestos Laws and Regulations | US EPA
Screenshot 2023-03-26 at 10-59-08 CFR-2019-title40-vol33-sec721-11095.pdf.png
 
just a couple other things...wheel cylinders can rust internally and seize up the pistons ...and not leak....so its possible that you're trying to stop the car with only one of the two pistons per cylinder moving which can do some weird stuff...and yes brake linings can absorb stuff and not work correctly... they have to slide smoothly and not grab...the car could have puked a wheel cylinder 20 years ago but the cheap owner didnt want to replace the "good" shoes and just cleaned them with up with gasoline or god knows what...if this was my car it would get shoes, wheel cylinders, rubber hoses and the drums cut...its just not worth taking chances with a brake system where you have no idea of its past history
 
All comments noted with sincere appreciation.

I am particularly intrigued by the suggestions that a wheel cylinder could be hanging up and / or the brake shoes are not riding smoothly against the backing plate, because either of those conditions might be consistent with the intermittent nature of the problem. I think I will be replacing all components (and hoses) in each front wheel, just to be on the safe side. And, at least the brake hose in the back.

FWIW, on my 66 I did allow a local brake and booster rebuilder talk me in to replacing my perfectly good linings with those made of asbestos (we are right next to Mexico and I'm sure that's where they came from) when he did the booster. Honestly, I don't notice any difference in stopping power or fade with asbestos vs the modern linings that were in there..
 
watchfatha,
I have a few sets of *** New Old Stock *** Asbestos *** Front 11 " x 3 " Brake Shoes --- NOT MANY Remaining--- and this could be The End -- unless I find more or more find me !!! --- as well as the 1963 - 1964 wheel cylinders, brake hoses, brake hardware, and a whole lot more......

I remember the name / handle " watchfatha " , so I believe I have serviced you in the past....,

P.M. me, as per forum rules, if interested..... Craig.... Mobile Parts......
 
Only a little -- 20 % maybe --- livininharrow.... thanks....

You can read, in general discussion, a long thread started by detmatt, about my trials and tribulations,
My destroyed body and rehabilitation and more.....

Craig.....
 
Well Craig, good to see you back on the forum! You blathering old coot! Too bad Mr. Minor degree didn't take a short course in manners 101 while he working on his BS. Cam (full of hot air) Shaft.
 
In addition to growing up in the Antique and Classic Automotive world, thanks to the fact that I grew up in my grandfather's auto parts store, and worked as a counterman and much more from the time I was 12 years old --- our store was the " Shrine " --- we were known for being T H E go to place for auto parts, and particularly old car parts ( because we had everything!!!! ),
I am IVY League Educated, and GOD has blessed me with unparalleled intelligence....

Master BS Left Coast is a legend in its own mind, for sure ( simply delusional or an outpatient, undoubtedly) ....
Get a laugh from its' comments, and just pray, once again, it just goes away ......

Yours, Craig......
 
On our old mopars we take a piece of sandpaper from a board sander and sand the glaze from the lining and also sand the drums inside some and blow off with air hose. It has worked good to help the smoothness of the stop and no noise
 
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