Cross ram Linkage reproduction???

[robndi43]

It's been a while since I've been on the forums. Wife being sick takes precedence on my time.
I have scored a long ram sonic cross ram set up for the 413 at the Charlotte Auto Fair this weekend. I am wanting to install these on my '61 Newport that I'm slowly messing with. Is the throttle linkage available anywhere as a reproduction. I only got the two tubes themselves, and am going to start piecing together the rest of the parts to try and get it installed on my '59 Imperial 413 that I have salted away for my car.
I am going to need the balance tubes etc. if anyone know where I can find them. I am not in search of the special exhaust manifolds that are necessary to warm the carbs up with as I will engineer something else as I am going to run headers on the car. I have the AFB off of the '59 Imp motor and hope that I can use it as one of the two carbs. I'm going to start the learning process to see if that carb can be used as one of the two. I'll need to search out another one of those also. No rush on my part. Got more time than money to figure this all out. I've always admired that set up and wanted to have that on a car. It's on my bucket list anyway. I hope I can pull it off and make it happen.
Any education from the populace on here, I would be humbly grateful for.

Thanks to all.

 

[commando1]

Sounds like a good score.
Our man Jerry will tell you everything you need to know when he sees this in the morning.

 

[robndi43]

Sounds like a good score.
Our man Jerry will tell you everything you need to know when he sees this in the morning.

Thanks, Commando 1, for taking the time to answer. Any and all help, as always, is appreciated. Will be looking forward to his reply.
The day was almost over and a lot of vendors had already loaded up and left. Got them for a really good price. I was too excited on my 3 hour drive back to WV. Wondering what goes in the valley to cover up where the other style manifold usually sets.

 

[cantflip]

As 300F's are an all time favorite of mine, I can relate to your desire to build this setup... excellent bucket list.

Now when I hit the lottery...

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

Mornin' Rob and I'll start by welcoming you to FCBO. Most here call me Jer on this site but Stan (Commando1) preferz to keep it formal for reasonz known only to he, and He'z designated me the site expert on Cross Ramz again for reasonz known only to he so I'll give it my best shot. First I have very little good newz for you but I'll lay it out so you'll know what you're up against and what you need to know when you go shopping. If you look closely at the opposite end of the runners from where the carb's mount you'll see that theirs about a 6" gap between the inner runners with a half moon shaped hole cut in each side of it. If rams purchased didn't come with the balance plates they left the factory with and they were individually sawed after the 1/2" hole was bored in them and each ram of each set is different side to side set to set no matter who sawed them. Good news iz on that one that a place up near Seattle, Wa. called JCRestorations sellz the re-popz and they're on the web. Call Jeff Carter out there and order a set so you can custom fit them to your Rams. Make a point of asking Jeff what pieces that you need to fill your missing pieces, HE MIGHT SURPRISE YOU WITH HIS STASH. The list of your missing pieces are: "1"BELL CRANK(a "T" shaped Steal widget that goes down thru' the 2 holes that are bored thru' the 2 gussets that are cast into the passenger side ram) "2" A special 2 piece of adjustable linkage that is attached to the pivot throttle rod on the fire wall and attaches to the bottom of the bell crank. The Carburetors are special casting of AFB's #3505s For the short rams and I can't remember the #s on the long rams but Forwardlook Steve on this site will chime in I'm sure 'cuz he's the '60+ '61 expert but either set of AFBs will work and they are designed the same with receptacles for the fuel lines on the inboard side of both carbs facing each other. "3" 2 sets of linkage consisting of two pieces making them both adjustable between carburetors and bell crank. "4" The balance tube that connects the 2 rams one to the other and is a different diameter then the mating ends cast into the rams that connect it, and last #5 2 pieces of 6" long rubber hose that has been cast different diametersinto each half and of course 4 hose clamps 2 each of the appropriate diameter. If my brain iz working properly It'z telling me they were ALL 550 size carbs. FYI Rob, the Eddies that are copy's of the AVS's will work just fine but you'll have to plumb the furl line to the drives side out board to the fender side. I'm gonna rest my pecker fingerz and take ah nap now, Jer

 

[robndi43]

Mornin' Rob and I'll start by welcoming you to FCBO. Most here call me Jer on this site but Stan (Commando1) preferz to keep it formal for reasonz known only to he, and He'z designated me the site expert on Cross Ramz again for reasonz known only to he so I'll give it my best shot. First I have very little good newz for you but I'll lay it out so you'll know what you're up against and what you need to know when you go shopping. If you look closely at the opposite end of the runners from where the carb's mount you'll see that theirs about a 6" gap between the inner runners with a half moon shaped hole cut in each side of it. If rams purchased didn't come with the balance plates they left the factory with and they were individually sawed after the 1/2" hole was bored in them and each ram of each set is different side to side set to set no matter who sawed them. Good news iz on that one that a place up near Seattle, Wa. called JCRestorations sellz the re-popz and they're on the web. Call Jeff Carter out there and order a set so you can custom fit them to your Rams. Make a point of asking Jeff what pieces that you need to fill your missing pieces, HE MIGHT SURPRISE YOU WITH HIS STASH. The list of your missing pieces are: "1"BELL CRANK(a "T" shaped Steal widget that goes down thru' the 2 holes that are bored thru' the 2 gussets that are cast into the passenger side ram) "2" A special 2 piece of adjustable linkage that is attached to the pivot throttle rod on the fire wall and attaches to the bottom of the bell crank. The Carburetors are special casting of AFB's #3505s For the short rams and I can't remember the #s on the long rams but Forwardlook Steve on this site will chime in I'm sure 'cuz he's the '60+ '61 expert but either set of AFBs will work and they are designed the same with receptacles for the fuel lines on the inboard side of both carbs facing each other. "3" 2 sets of linkage consisting of two pieces making them both adjustable between carburetors and bell crank. "4" The balance tube that connects the 2 rams one to the other and is a different diameter then the mating ends cast into the rams that connect it, and last #5 2 pieces of 6" long rubber hose that has been cast different diametersinto each half and of course 4 hose clamps 2 each of the appropriate diameter. If my brain iz working properly It'z telling me they were ALL 550 size carbs. to the fender side. I'm gonna rest my pecker fingerz and take ah nap now, Jer

FYI Rob, the Eddies that are copy's of the AVS's will work just fine but you'll have to plumb the furl line to the drives side out board


Thank, Jer. Is there a site where I can get an exploded view of the setup so I can vizulize what I'm trying to accomplish? I'm not looking to be original, just a driver. I've seen these with Edelbrock carbs even. I'm a little slow, so are you telling me the carb I have off my 413 4 bbl can't work off this set up and I need special carbs to pull this off?

I didn't understand the following sentence at all?
FYI Rob, the Eddies that are copy's of the AVS's will work just fine but you'll have to plumb the furl line to the drives side out board

 

[robndi43]

FYI Rob, the Eddies that are copy's of the AVS's will work just fine but you'll have to plumb the furl line to the drives side out board


Thank, Jer. Is there a site where I can get an exploded view of the setup so I can vizulize what I'm trying to accomplish? I'm not looking to be original, just a driver. I've seen these with Edelbrock carbs even. I'm a little slow, so are you telling me the carb I have off my 413 4 bbl can't work off this set up and I need special carbs to pull this off?

I didn't understand the following sentence at all?
FYI Rob, the Eddies that are copy's of the AVS's will work just fine but you'll have to plumb the furl line to the drives side out board to the fender side. I'm gonna rest my pecker fingerz and take ah nap now, Jer

 

[fury fan]

Congratulations Robndi43 on scoring a pair of crossram castings. You have found the cheapest and easiest-to-find part of a crossram system. (pardon my sarcasm, but I have a pair of castings also so I'm in the same boat as you)

As you are not looking for accurate appearance (I'm not either) you probably have some options on some of the parts. (like aircleaners, balance tube, carbs, carb heating, linkage, and fuel liners)

One thing that you should give some thought to IMHO is some support at the carb ends. I could be wrong about this, but I believe the exh-heated tubes for them add some necessary support. But they will expand with heat, and some rams are water-heated, so I dunno for sure. I just see an awful lot of cantilevered weight being held by only 4 bolts into the head.

Review the chrysler300club.com website for some more info.

There are a few crossram articles in here - read them! Especially find the note about the special cam timing gear for crossram cars, cam timing is a fundamental part of the crossram's resonance effect.
TECH PAGE

Here are 2 links to look at, the round aircleaners may still be available. I have a set of his oval reproductions, and they seem decent, although the air cleaner sticker looks like a bad photoshop copy.
partsforsale
SourcesThe following list is an accumulation of ads and referrals from the past few years

 

[robndi43]

Congratulations Robndi43 on scoring a pair of crossram castings. You have found the cheapest and easiest-to-find part of a crossram system. (pardon my sarcasm, but I have a pair of castings also so I'm in the same boat as you)

As you are not looking for accurate appearance (I'm not either) you probably have some options on some of the parts. (like aircleaners, balance tube, carbs, carb heating, linkage, and fuel liners)

One thing that you should give some thought to IMHO is some support at the carb ends. I could be wrong about this, but I believe the exh-heated tubes for them add some necessary support. But they will expand with heat, and some rams are water-heated, so I dunno for sure. I just see an awful lot of cantilevered weight being held by only 4 bolts into the head.

Review the chrysler300club.com website for some more info.

There are a few crossram articles in here - read them! Especially find the note about the special cam timing gear for crossram cars, cam timing is a fundamental part of the crossram's resonance effect.
TECH PAGE

Here are 2 links to look at, the round aircleaners may still be available. I have a set of his oval reproductions, and they seem decent, although the air cleaner sticker looks like a bad photoshop copy.
partsforsale
SourcesThe following list is an accumulation of ads and referrals from the past few years

Thanks for the info. I've probably bitten off more than I can chew at this time. With wife being sick, the funds just aren't there like they used to be. Got excited when I saw the tubes and jumped in there and bought them. Should have walked away. Wish he hadn't of met me half way on my offer and his price.

 

[fury fan]

Thanks for the info. I've probably bitten off more than I can chew at this time. With wife being sick, the funds just aren't there like they used to be. Got excited when I saw the tubes and jumped in there and bought them. Should have walked away. Wish he hadn't of met me half way on my offer and his price.

Same shoes as me, I got mine at opening bid on ebay and then truly realized how much more was needed to use them.

Hope your wife gets better! Send me a PM about what's going on with her?

 

[Carlton Fan]

These Son-O-Rams are NOT Cross Rams. A Cross Ram (think Max Wedge) is an entirely different animal.

 

[fury fan]

Both are referred as crossrams, and the ones we're discussing in this thread were released first, so technically the maxwedge version is the one to confuse things.

The Sono style are the exact same things as used on the Chrysler 300 Letters, but were named differently when put on Plymouths.

They came in short and long versions, so sometimes referred to as shortrams or longrams, or just crossrams.

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

O.K. guyz, Here'z the low down. Dual quads on the Max Wedge carz were staggered front on the drivers side and back on the passenger side but NOT acrossed the engine like cross rams and that Intake Manifold(Which 1st came out predating the 426 Hemi by a couple yearz in '62) and haz alwayz in the speed cicrlez been referred to az the RAT ROASTER Intake. The Long Rams first came out in the 1960 300F and the 1961 300G and a few others and in the Dodge and Plymouth lines, ie Sonic Rams. In 1962 Mother Mopar went back to the dual quad "north+south" configuration and a few, 'bout 6-7 sets of the short rams that were water heated and all were used in flat out speed applications. Andy Granatelli had one of the '62s on the salt that year with the water heated short rams. The short Rams came standard on ALL of the 1963 300Js and only SOME of the 1964 production 300 Ks. The Long-Short thing iz somewhat of a misnomer in that ALL 4 YEARS OF INSTALLATION ON THOSE LETTER CARS "ALL" those rams were the same length EXTERNALLY. The difference was in the length of the inner passages of the runners. and you'd have to see both sets side by side to see the external difference in the Long Rams as apposed to the Short Rams. The differences in the length of the internal runners changed the torq range which made the F + G better off the line and the J + K better on the top end and all topped out at somewhere over 100+++, Nap time, Jer

 

[fury fan]

Agreed, all that and more is listed on the Tech link I posted above.

The maxwedge version has much shorter runners than the overhanging Chrysler pieces, and the ports are sized to maxwedge heads, Chrysler rams are sized to the standard port.

But wasn't the Rat Roaster an aftermarket version, that came with removable tops and different carb configurations?

 

[robndi43]

These Son-O-Rams are NOT Cross Rams. A Cross Ram (think Max Wedge) is an entirely different animal.

I've followed these cars my whole life and I, and everyone else I know that loves these cars, calls them crossrams. Be that as it may, for the purposes discussed in this thread, and the fact that the information being sought out, was mostly the information I was looking for. I was not looking for what exact name it is called, or an expert on nomenclature, but thanks for your input.

Would not a rose by any other name smell just as sweet?

 

[LocuMob]

These Son-O-Rams are NOT Cross Rams. A Cross Ram (think Max Wedge) is an entirely different animal.

Technically the name is not, but what would you call an intake that feeds a cylinder bank from the opposite side of the engine? It's a precursor to the later cross ram intakes, but uses the same principle. A "cross ram" intake just folds the runners in half, so to speak.

 

[commando1]

It doesn't mean a twit what it's called in the street. It's the nomenclature, backed with documentation, used officially by ChryCo.

 

[max1196]

Shure looks "cross" to me. Yes there are two versions of these, both 26 inches long each half, but the other version has a runner for the first 13 inches that is "siamesed". Look close at each runner of this one, they have individual runners for the full 26 inches. These were the high torque versions, the other style had more HP potential.

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

Agreed, all that and more is listed on the Tech link I posted above.

The maxwedge version has much shorter runners than the overhanging Chrysler pieces, and the ports are sized to maxwedge heads, Chrysler rams are sized to the standard port.

But wasn't the Rat Roaster an aftermarket version, that came with removable tops and different carb configurations?

You're right about the Rat Roaster being a two piece intake as opposed to the early street wedge one piece intake but I think the rat roaster became the generic term to identify that particular style dual quad intake.but I believe the dual quad set up was the same on both. But then how many sets of TRI-Y CAST IRON HEADERS have we seen lately or EVER seen? lol If the carz purchased came with 'um from the factory the 1320' racerz back then S*** caned 'um to shave weight. I personally can count on one hand and have fingerz left how many setz I've seen in the last 55 yearz, Jer

 

[LocuMob]

Edelbrock produced the Rat Roaster intake for the Hemi, and the name got used for other cross rams as well.