Cruise control unit repair diagnosis

73 T&C

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The FSM tells us that, beyond some minor adjustment as to engagement and electrical connections from and to the switch, the unit should be changed as a non serviceable unit. Wonderful!.... 20 or 30 or 40 years ago but not now.

Having a weak or inop unit on your car can be a pain. It was for me on my 73 Town & Country and my most recent car; a 78 NYB.

Both would work only with the aid of my right foot and both had trouble keeping the set speed. Both also had their diaphragms replaced or repaired to no avail. Both were replaced with operable units and are working fine now. So, taking the deadest unit I had in my collection, I decided to take it apart to see what else could be wrong...

DB9990E5-A1DF-46C0-9559-515554145BE1.jpeg

After removing the unit from the car and taking off the diaphragm cover and diaphragm, there is a round cover with three small screws that covers the guts.

The top winding element is the sensor/transducer for the position of the soft steel rod and magnet that run through it to the vacuum source valve (flap really) at the top. When you push the set button it energizes this coil and opens the vacuum source valve by pulling down the soft steel “L” shaped rod down at the set position establishing the mechanical “memory”.

That rod moving through the transducer is driven by a nineteenth century centrifugally driven governor powered by the transmission cable. This governor/actuator also allows the unit to be powered only beyond a certain point. Very clever switch indeed.

Below it is the vacuum control and dump valve that is electrically modulated by the above.

The rod that moves in and out is driven by the diaphragm position; modulating the vacuum source valve, regardless of position.

The rest is a collection of clockwork springs and counter springs that look and are delicate.

FCB3710F-6DE8-4C50-BE7B-B3B0D25E3A0A.jpeg

This diaphragm is pretty much shot after many heat cycles over the years.

6B288F1F-7FD5-4F20-B8C9-6F541805FAB7.jpeg

Not all the faults are obvious.

6C48EF8D-6E20-4BA7-B42C-00E24BC53682.jpeg

What becomes obvious is that vacuum control for a semi working unit may be the problem beyond the leaking diaphragm. You can see that I changed the manifold filter at some point in the past to keep dirt out of the mechanism.

84B6870F-B7B5-4B45-B093-D0D788C7846B.jpeg

The gear driven governor and actuator. Showing almost no wear and working perfectly.

38599D7C-DD76-4EA6-88C5-ACD24BB89F07.jpeg

Side view of the governor and drive assembly. The seal is necessary as this is part of the overall vacuum chamber. Any leaks along the edge would weaken the vacuum chambers ability to work the diaphragm in pulling the throttle cable.

5E6E7F6F-C109-4D50-AC5D-E0E04E1DE696.jpeg

A look down into the unit side of the drive reveals the switch connected indirectly to the driven governor/actuator which is in direct line with the rod moving through the transducer. Got it so far? Good!

Ok... you will notice you can see the vacuum control/dump valve and that it has a seal. Carefully pushing back on it allows the seal to be removed... it was my suspected source of an additional leak into the overall unit. It’s made of cork... go figure.

The vacuum control/dump valve is held down by the internal cover only.

I think I got this now.
 
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I will be watching this closely. I haven't checked mine out yet even though I have a complete system.
 
I am interested too - I repair and service the 58 - 66 mechanical Autopilot systems (I have an advert in the WPC News monthly), but haven't had cause to delve into the later vacuum units.
 
I did not realize they were still using a flyweight governor then. Makes sense, just never thought about it I guess.
 
I suspect that if you clean and lube the moving items, clean the terminals, and such, things should work well again. Of course, a new diaphragm is necessary, too. Might need to lube the throttle cable?

The earlier units had TWO Allen-head set screws on them. Calibration points for "cut-in" and "cut-out", I believe the FSM calls them. Later units, by the middle '70s, had only one set screw, for engagement accuracy.

The earlier Perfect Circle step-motor units were also used by GM as long as Chrysler used them, model year wise. One accessory kit I came across, for a '65 Impala, mounted the control unit on the core support, with a LONG linkage arm that went to the carb throttle level, at an angle. Quite unusual, compared to the way Chrysler did it. The "rod" must have been a separate item from the basic kit, though.

CBODY67
 
Oops... my nubile young bride distracted me before I updated the initial post. Lost all the valuable commentary. Go back please.
 
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I am interested too - I repair and service the 58 - 66 mechanical Autopilot systems (I have an advert in the WPC News monthly), but haven't had cause to delve into the later vacuum units.
Delve... delve!!!! Please. Our old units are dying and replacements that actually still work are very hard to find.
 
When you got a toy at Christmas, you took it apart, didn't you.
Yes I did......but only after they stopped working....

Mattel hotwheels Sizzlers were my favorite toy! I got a replacement set from my wife for Christmas about 10 years ago.

image.jpg


When I die, she’s going to have a lot of my toys to get rid of if I don’t start getting rid of some soon.

But not yet... waiting to play with the grand kids. God willing.
 
Aurora HO size electric cars, with their race track. Always sought to make them faster. I had on '63 Galaxie 500 convertible that was "oversteer happy". When beside a competitor in a turn, the rear end would swing wide enough to knock the other car out of its guide slot. Never did figure that one out OR why it was the only car that did that.

When I'd put some Silly Putty on the back of that car, for more traction, it'd wheel-stand and the contacts would stop contacting. Short wheel-stands, buy impressive for what they were.

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
I suspect that if you clean and lube the moving items, clean the terminals, and such, things should work well again. Of course, a new diaphragm is necessary, too. Might need to lube the throttle cable?

The earlier units had TWO Allen-head set screws on them. Calibration points for "cut-in" and "cut-out", I believe the FSM calls them. Later units, by the middle '70s, had only one set screw, for engagement accuracy.

The earlier Perfect Circle step-motor units were also used by GM as long as Chrysler used them, model year wise. One accessory kit I came across, for a '65 Impala, mounted the control unit on the core support, with a LONG linkage arm that went to the carb throttle level, at an angle. Quite unusual, compared to the way Chrysler did it. The "rod" must have been a separate item from the basic kit, though.

CBODY67

Everything you say....
...... And changing the seal for the vacuum control valve and seal it all up carefully.

Something else I noticed is that the diaphragm cover needs to be well seated prior to snugging it down... it wil bunch up if not done evenly; causing a leak.
 
The FSM tells us that, beyond some minor adjustment as to engagement and electrical connections from and to the switch, the unit should be changed as a non serviceable unit. Wonderful!.... 20 or 30 or 40 years ago but not now.

Having a weak or inop unit on your car can be a pain. It was for me on my 73 Town & Country and my most recent car; a 78 NYB.

Both would work only with the aid of my right foot and both had trouble keeping the set speed. Both also had their diaphragms replaced or repaired to no avail. Both were replaced with operable units and are working fine now. So, taking the deadest unit I had in my collection, I decided to take it apart to see what else could be wrong...

View attachment 229867
After removing the unit from the car and taking off the diaphragm cover and diaphragm, there is a round cover with three small screws that covers the guts.

The top winding element is the sensor/transducer for the position of the soft steel rod and magnet that run through it to the vacuum source valve (flap really) at the top. When you push the set button it energizes this coil and opens the vacuum source valve by pulling down the soft steel “L” shaped rod down at the set position establishing the mechanical “memory”.

That rod moving through the transducer is driven by a nineteenth century centrifugally driven governor powered by the transmission cable. This governor/actuator also allows the unit to be powered only beyond a certain point. Very clever switch indeed.

Below it is the vacuum control and dump valve that is electrically modulated by the above.

The rod that moves in and out is driven by the diaphragm position; modulating the vacuum source valve, regardless of position.

The rest is a collection of clockwork springs and counter springs that look and are delicate.

View attachment 229868
This diaphragm is pretty much shot after many heat cycles over the years.

View attachment 229869
Not all the faults are obvious.

View attachment 229870
What becomes obvious is that vacuum control for a semi working unit may be the problem beyond the leaking diaphragm. You can see that I changed the manifold filter at some point in the past to keep dirt out of the mechanism.

View attachment 229872
The gear driven governor and actuator. Showing almost no wear and working perfectly.

View attachment 229873
Side view of the governor and drive assembly. The seal is necessary as this is part of the overall vacuum chamber. Any leaks along the edge would weaken the vacuum chambers ability to work the diaphragm in pulling the throttle cable.

View attachment 229874
A look down into the unit side of the drive reveals the switch connected indirectly to the driven governor/actuator which is in direct line with the rod moving through the transducer. Got it so far? Good!

Ok... you will notice you can see the vacuum control/dump valve and that it has a seal. Carefully pushing back on it allows the seal to be removed... it was my suspected source of an additional leak into the overall unit. It’s made of cork... go figure.

The vacuum control/dump valve is held down by the internal cover only.

I think I got this now.
Sorta stumbled across this old thread so it's probably a long shot but the speed control servo in your pictures is identical to mine that I'm trying to revive. I've bench tested both coils separately so I know they're good but when I put them in the servo and test them with the wiring harness connected the vacuum dump valve doesn't close. Did you get yours to work and if so, is the single connector on the servo supposed to be 'hot' when speed control is set to "on"? Any help is appreciated.
 
"Non-serviceable units" usually means that the OEM desires the units back (as a warranty core, back then) so that they can test and determine what has failed. Possibly issuing a TSB/Recall Notice for the defective batch of parts.

BUT parts are usually available somewhere or the rebuilders would not be able to rebuild/fix them. Something usualy out of the realm of a dealership tech, by observation. Or something that a tech didn't need to be spending time doing as a new item (under a unit's new warrancy) would turn the job sooner and reliably, with a new OEM warranty to boot.

Just some observations,
CBODY67
 
On my car I've come across several "non-servicable parts" that with some time and effort I was able to service and make functional again. Hopefully this'll be the next :p

The pictures in this thread along with this other thread are very helpful. Will keep fidgeting with this until I find something I can't fix.
 
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