Edelbrock 1406 vs 1906

Engine, Transmission & Driveline

  1. live4theking

    live4theking Old Man with a Hat

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    I know that there are a fair number of guys here that advocate switching to the Edelbrock 1406 as an improvement over the factory carburetors. The purposes of this thread isn't to debate that further.

    What I would like to know is has anyone ran a 1906 which is supposed to be an improved version of the 1406.

    What is your opinion of it?

    For those that may not be familiar with it.
     
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  2. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Old Man with a Hat

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    I just like the AVS for its secondary air valve, rather than what the normal Edelbrock AFB has back there. The annualar-discharge venturi on the AVS2 doesn't hurt, either.

    CBODY67
     
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  3. Turboomni

    Turboomni Old Man with a Hat

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    Although I have no first hand info personally ,I have done a good bit of research on the AVS2 carbs. Not here too much but especially FBBO as they are more performance oriented. There are many hard core drag racers that don't care about streetability and the guys that run exhaust manifolds with lots of power to purr like a kitten stock and everything in between. First off from what I have gathered from drag racers and real high peak HP guys they roll their eyes it seems at any Edelbrock over a Holley. And I think rightly so as I assume from reports for all out WOT power the Holley in capable tuner hands will make more power than a comparable Edelbrock. I think the Edelbrock most likely shines to many in the drivability in around town ,entering a highway at 3/4 throttle etc on engines that are not tuned and cammed for WOT. That said I run a 1406 on my present low compression 440. After reacquainting myself to points and vacuum advance and carbs again to tune in a badly setup engine when I got the car ,she runs great.
    I am building a 505 ci stroker for my 69 Fury III. I told my designer I want vacuum for power brakes ,not a big lopey idle ,bla,bla bla. Went out and did research that many found the 800 cfm AVS2 was very good. No reports of ultimate WOT power but the throttle response was excellent and even got a report on PM on FBBO that he was considering EFI but after installing his AVS2 ,he will save his money because he is very satisfied. I will be installing an 800 cfm AVS2 on my stroker. My builder is not in total agreement ,as is my designer of the build,,they want a Holley. Well ok I said and you can prove me wrong later and let me borrow a Holley of your choice.
    Engine is being assembled this next week and going in the car soon ,,I hope.
    If the 1906 is better from your research than the 1406 then I would go for it. Annular primary veturis is a big plus in my mind if you are in the market.
     
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  4. 1970FuryConv

    1970FuryConv Senior Member

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    I have 800 cfm AVS2 on my 440. I haven't finished tuning it, but like the adjustable air vacuum secondary and the annular boosters. I also like the adjustable electric choke.
     
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  5. JM_ART

    JM_ART Member

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    What I find a bit confusing is that Edelbrock say the Performer will run well on "gasohol", but then, in their "installation notes", say using it with E85 will ruin the carb and void the warranty. AVS2's "installation notes" are the same in this respect.
     
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  6. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Old Man with a Hat

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    What was originally termed "gasahol", in many cases, is what we now have with E10 ethanol'd fuels. E85 can be up to about 65% ethanol (by definition), from the gas pumps, unless you buy the real E85 race fuel in a drum. That's the difference. As the ethanol percentage increases, so does the need for larger jetting calibrations, which might well mean that current Edelbrocks are calibrated to allow for possibly up to E15 without needing any changes, but certainly E10 will work, as will E0. IF you open the carb for anything, it will possibly void ANY warranty the new carb might have.

    The Holleys have always had the "top performance" aura about them. Max horsepower is all that matters to many racers. Nothing wrong with that. I suspect that much of this might come from the extreme tuneability of the Holleys, via thair many "feeds"/"restrictions" in their metering calibrations, which can ALL be changed to address a particular issues in a particular rpm range/situation. Just check their multitude of other things, like accel pump shooters, too.

    Back in the later '60s, Holleys (especially, it seems, the OEM Chrysler Holleys) of needing an annual carb "kit" job. Whereas the Carters would last "forever" in comparison. The local Chrysler dealer did not like Holleys, as a result of the Holleys hurting the customer satisfaction of their service dept AND sales dept customers. The dealer would not order a car (i.e., Road Runner) that came with a Holley, but had little choice on the New Yorker 440s and such. The quality and type of the various metering block gaskets/seals was an observed issue, but I heard nothing about similar things from the Chevy or Ford people. Which always made me wonder, back then.

    In later times, the OEM-spec Holleys I've had on my cars have been plug 'n play, after installation/adaptations. No leaks, sharp throttle response, etc. Only thing was the placement of the accel pump diaphram at the bottom of the float bowl, where seeps could and did occur. NOT GOOD! One of the reasons I like the Street Demon, other than the fact it seems to be a ThermoQuad revisited in so many respects.

    Consider, too, that a "racer" will usually be doing something under the hood every so often to ensure everything is working as desired. So some durability issues with others are not an issue with them. Just part of the deal. Whereas a more normal customer MIGHT raise the hood once a month, if that often, which makes longer-term durability (i.e., no leaks/seeps) much more important. Nice off-idle throttle response always is important, as is part-throttle throttle response. Easier to tune the secondary air door on the AVS/AVS2 than to play with changing secondary springs in any Holley (which also requires purchasing the kit of various springs). Holley does have a more recent "kit" to make changing springs easier to do, though.

    Ultimate high-rpm power numbers are one thing. But in daily driving and even in racing, what happens at the lower rpms will influence how things progress toward those high-rpm power numbers. Something that a WOT dyno pull might not reveal. Which is why 2000rpm power/response/torque is important, too. AND can make street driving more enjoyable and easier to do, however often that might happen. By observation, a correctly-tuned Holley, Edelbrock/Carter, or others can work well, either way. Just depends upon how close the particualr carb is to where it needs to be for its application, to start with. That last bit of tuning can be the devlish details where many "trick of the week" changes are recommended, with varying degrees of success.

    Just some thoughts and observations,
    CBODY67
     
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  7. furious70

    furious70 Well-Known Member

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    I've not used the avs2, but have used the 1406's and never liked one. They should be the same as a Carter but there's something different and they just don't perform. They will reliably start idle and run but not perform. And with e10 they are hard to hot start, though I have the same problem with Carters.

    Off topic, I have none of these problems with holleys :D

    If I was buying an edelbrock I'd try the avs2
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  8. livininharrow

    livininharrow Senior Member

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    save the argument and have the engine dynod trying both carb combos. it would be nice to see the difference.
     
  9. carrman

    carrman Well-Known Member

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    I love my 800 AVS2. Worked great on my 451, works great on my 440.
     
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  10. Turboomni

    Turboomni Old Man with a Hat

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    That would be very interesting but not in the cards for me. I don't know even if there was a difference like 10 20 hp would I be able to tell the difference on the street? My thoughts are WOT is not my primary concern [although it should do it convincingly according to my buttometer] but drivability, sitting in traffic going to a car show ,tooling around parking lots ,going down main street slow. That kind of thing won't show very well on a dyno well I don't think. How is the throttle response and manners overall and are you happy with WOT performance?

    Is your 440 stock? For my present 440 I thought it to be too big being low compression and mild cam. That is why I stuck with the 1406. Glad you like your AVS2 though. I am looking forward to trying it on my new engine.
     
  11. furious70

    furious70 Well-Known Member

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    Vac secondary will 'never' be too big for an engine.
     
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  12. Turboomni

    Turboomni Old Man with a Hat

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    Not knocking Holley's by any means! Their track record and history speak for themselves. Interesting you didn't like the 1406. Mine came on my car when bought. I looked it up and saw "600 cfm" and freaked! Why such a puny carb on such a big engine. I did many searches here and asked questions here and was told to settle down, as it was just fine with my low compression 440. I did have to tinker with it a bit with metering rods and springs ,rebuild etc.
     
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  13. Turboomni

    Turboomni Old Man with a Hat

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    Ahh yes ,I see of course. Thanks
     
  14. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Old Man with a Hat

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    Yes, that is what all of the Holley books state. That with the vacuum secondary, the secondaries will open enough to fill any needs of the engine. Which makes the 3310 a good bit of overkill on many of the engines it came on from the factory.

    BUT that also opens up the question is "IS it openning enough and when?" Which is where the multitude of secondary springs comes into play. A stiffer spring will keep things closed longer as the weaker springs will let things open up quicker and more fully. Which is where an open element (unsilenced) air cleaner and a longer grade so you can use lower gears and listen to when the secondaries start to open. Or you can "jick" the deal with a screw in the slot attached to the secondary throttle shaft, on the linkage side of the carb, to over-ride the vacuum portion of things.

    When Ford used the original 1850 in 1958, they used the same carb on all of their engines that year. 352s to 430s. Same jetting and all. Which verifies the flexibility of the 600cfm sizing. Just as the '67 440/350 used a similar-sized Holley 4160 carb OEM.

    Some people seem to have better luck with Carter/Edelbrock carbs as others seem to have better luck with Holleys. "And the beat goes on . . ."

    Enjoy!
    CBODY67
     
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  15. live4theking

    live4theking Old Man with a Hat

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    @Turboomni Did you ever get your engine finished? Does it like the AVS2 carb?
     
  16. Turboomni

    Turboomni Old Man with a Hat

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    Slowly but surely it is going together. Certainly my stroker will be up and running by spring. As far as my engine builder's thoughts on the Edelbrock over the Holley he did agree that for tooling around in traffic and all part throttle manners the Edelbrock does shine. We did agree though as he wants me to try one of his Holley carbs of his choice to prove there is a difference. That sounds interesting. But with so much torque and extra HP is my buttometer gonna notice anything? I guess it would take going to Lebanon Dragway with both carbs to see I would think or maybe a dyno. I would only drag race it a few times a year for kicks. The plan for the car is going to be a Big Boned Gal Powerful street /highway cruiser with manners.
     
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  17. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Old Man with a Hat

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    In addition to GPS-tracked acceleration vs. distance phone apps, there are also some which will determine horsepower as the car is drag raced. Some, as I understand, are pretty inexpensive to download. Might also be used to check time/distance for simulated passing maneuvers (i.e., 40-70mph).

    Might consider getting the fuel/air mixture dialed-on on a chassis dyno at "road load" conditions. Cruise and 3/4WOT (enough throttle to get the power circuits to work), plus idle, with each carb. For the sake of research. Otherwise, which carb the engine appears to be happiest with.

    Just some thoughts,
    CBODY67
     
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  18. Turboomni

    Turboomni Old Man with a Hat

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    I was thinking about a wide band O2 sensors [one for each exhaust] so I can play around dialing the carb in. Many use one sensor on one bank which is a lot better than nothing. They are getting cheaper these days.
     
  19. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Old Man with a Hat

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    Two sensors, two gauges?
     
  20. Turboomni

    Turboomni Old Man with a Hat

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