Edelbrock 1411 insulated spacer

Engine, Transmission & Driveline

  1. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I need an insulated spacer to keep the fuel from boiling in my carb. My local parts store only had the edelbrock 9266 insulator gasket for a square bore carb. Checked the edelbrock website and it does show that this is needed with a 1411. My question is this, is it ok to use the 9266 insulator gasket even though it is a divided gasket and the normal base gasket isn't? Should I still use a base gasket?

    Sorry, I am still new to all this...
     
  2. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    You do not need the base gasket with the 9266 insulator. The divided configuration is supposed to improve and balance inlet flow so that is acceptable option to use. Using the solid base gasket with this set up would run the risk of having pieces of the solid gasket tearing off and ingesting debris into the intake. Also note that you will need longer carb mounting studs with this setup. Are you mounting this onto a 4 hole stock manifold? If so this is the correct insulator. If you were mounting to a single plane manifold with the one big hole on the intake, you would want to use the 9265 insulator. If you are having fuel boiling issues, check your heat riser to be sure it is not stuck shut, that is a leading cause of fuel boiling in the carb. Also going to a 180 thermostat if you are currently running a 190 will also help.

    Dave
     
  3. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Im new to all this so bare with me... i do learn quickly. I assume the manifold is stock but have not pulled the carb to verify the 4holes. About to go do that now. I am not sure what a heat riser is but ill do some research and find out and check those. I also am not sure what thermostat I have. I planned on getting a replacement today but AutoZone did not have any in stock at all. I figured it would be a good idea to just replace it anyways with a lower temp version. Ill look for the 180* t-stat.
     
  4. 1978 NYB

    1978 NYB Warfighter FCBO Gold Member

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    Call the Eddie Tech line. They will help you with what you need and installation tips and video's.

    Screenshot_20190628-170403_Google.jpg
     
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  5. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I sent them a message and awaiting there reply. Im to unknowledgeable at this point to call and speak to someone. I would have all the terms wrong....

    I just pulled the carb and it does seem i have the stock manifold, as it has the 4 holes. the base gasket that was installed was just the large square one. Shouldn't if have the ones with the four holes to match? Why would the insulator gasket not need 4 holes as well instead of the 2 halves it does have?

    Also checked the heat riser, It just flips and flops with ease. Does not seem to have any springs or weights. It does move but what position should it be in without all the hardware?
     
  6. Welder guy

    Welder guy Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Post some pictures of what your doing. It helps us to see what your dealing with and what to do about it.
     
  7. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Here is the carb setup...

    IMG_4977.JPG
     
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  8. pomonamissel

    pomonamissel Senior Member

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    this combo still runs great , the heat crossover is blocked as well . electric choke made it nice . my 383 hp DSC07848.JPG has a bit of a cam in .
     
  9. The Goose

    The Goose Senior Member

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    You ever had that manifold off? If the crossover is filled with coke it can get super hot and stay hot. Might be worth pulling, cleaning it out and blocking it off. You might not need a spacer afterwards.
     
  10. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Senior Member

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    If the manifold has four distinct holes on the mounting plate, then it's best to have a OEM-style carb base gasket with 4 holes also. The holes might be a slight bit larger than the throttle bore diameters, but that's ok.

    The base gasket you're looking for might not only fit a Chrysler V-8 engine, either! Or specifically a Carter/Edelbrock carburetor. The gasket should be "thick" rather than "thin cardboard" and have metal bushings in EACH corner to prevent getting things torqued-down unevenly (and possibly cracking the carb's base). Sometimes, the bushings are hard plastic, which is fine, too. Other than Edelbrock specifically, you can find them in the Holley carb website, plus possibly at a NAPA parts store! One OEM application for the 4-hole OEM gasket was on middle '70s Chevy C-60 (medium duty) trucks. So, there are other sources rather than just Edelbrock, some of which might be closer to you.

    If the percolation just started with the warmer weather, then you might also make sure the fuel line between the carb and fuel pump are not touching any of the hot engine parts. For good measure.

    Also check the radiator core for any obstructions with an infrared heat gun. If the car's got a gunked-up radiator, it'll run hotter anyway. Making sure the radiator is clean (all the way to the bottom, not just what you see through the filler neck) AND the fan clutch is working, too, can help the situation a bit, possibly.

    You might find the 180 degree thermostat in the "performance parts" area of AutoZone, rather than in the regular parts counter area, by observation. 180 degrees is what we had on the earlier vehicles pre-emission controls. Same thermostat also fits other brands, too.

    Keep us posted on your progress.
    CBODY67
     
  11. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Still learning so I have a few more questions..... If the manifold has 4 holes, but it is dual plane, then that means that two holes feed one plane and the other two feed the other plane, correct? Then why does the manifold have two holes per plane? Why not just the one hole per plane and make it oblong?

    From my research it seems fuel can puddle on the flat areas in-between the holes if the correct spacer isn't used -4hole vs open. Edelbrock list their insulator gasket for the dual plane that has the two oblong holes. I feel the 4 holes would be best since the manifold has 4holes, but since its dual plane does it even matter? Is there much of a difference between this thicker .320" insulator gasket, or should I just get a carb spacer? If the spacer is make out of plastic or resin wouldn't it act just as the insulator? Or is a thicker 1" spacer asking for more issues?

    more research ahead.... and I'll check another store. Usually my AutoZone is on top of things but today was a total bust.
     
  12. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Senior Member

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    The number of holes per side can vary on a dual plane intake. Some years, 4 holes, other years, the oblong holes you mention. All depends upon what the factory engineers were trying to make happen.

    With the fast-moving air through the carb, with a VACUUM in the intake manifold during part-throttle operation, NO puddles anywhere. IF, during WOT operation, some puddles might happen in the plenum area, then as soon as the throttle is closed and intake manifold vacuum happens again, those puddles vaporize (which might cause a temporary over-rich situation (a few seconds at best?).

    One of the things the number of holes might reference is "plenum volume", TOTAL volume below the carb itself. The 4 holes can decrease it, as the oblong holes might add to it, effectively. This can also relate to velocity of the air/fuel mixture in the area between the carb base and the intake runners, too. Some might desire more velocity up to a certain rpm, as the larger total volume can aid top end power (which ONLY happens at those elevated rpm levels). On the street, throttle response matters more than 5000rpm horsepower.

    The problem with carb spacers is that they decrease hood clearance between the air cleaner and the underside of the hood (and hood insulator). Use the OEM-style carb gasket and see how things go BEFORE you start looking for anything else.

    When these cars were NEW, and gasoline was "real", "hot soak percolation" was a problem then, too. NOT specific just to the current lower Reid Vapor Pressure fuels with ethanol (which might make it worse). In other words, you could well be chasing "a fix" which didn't exist then and probably doesn't exist now. I will also say that it seemed that Chrysler products seems to have more of these "harder starting when hot" issues than Ford or many GM products did, back then. GM tried some fixes with heat deflectors under the carb, but it all relates to underhood head accumulation more than anything else. Just a part of the breed, from my observations of growing up with our '66 Newport. And later with my '70 Monaco 383 4bbl.

    As for your "floppy" heat riser valve, there should be a thermostatic spring on the back side of it, which is obviously missing. Better to have it "easy to move" than otherwise! The valve itself is offset on the shaft, so any gas flow over it will keep it open. With the pressure pulses, it might bang a bit, though.

    Just some thoughts,
    CBODY67
     
  13. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Strange noise from car....

    Would my "floppy" heat riser cause the issue in the thread above?.....

    Also I thought I would add that my fan does not have a surround. I am sure this complicates things but how much heat is it adding to the engine area?
     
  14. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    You have a stock mopar manifold, the casting numbers are clearly visible. The two hole carb spacer was developed for dual plane manifolds, but I doubt it will hurt anything to use it. There used to be a 4 hole spacer years ago, but I think it was discontinued. Willis is correct, these cars had hard start issues back when they were new. On the race engines and some high performance manifolds like the Eddy T-6 and T-7, the heat riser passage was deleted to control heat and due to the fact that aluminum does not play well with exhaust gasses. There was also an after market intake gasket the blocked off the heat riser ports to disable it. Worked well with a warm climate and a manual or electric choke. As you have an electric choke, this might also be an option for your application. Pretty sure that eddy still makes that manifold gasket. With today's moonshine blend fuel, carbon build up in the heat riser ports is common and this in turn leads to heating problems for the carb.

    Dave
     
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  15. pomonamissel

    pomonamissel Senior Member

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    yep to ethanol boil off at low engine operating heats , about 180 deg it starts . on my 383 you could watch the change in rpm and see vapor exiting the bowl vents . and after you shut in off even worth was the venting of the fuel . this stacked gasket then alum plate as a sandwich did help keep the carb body from soaking up the engine heat . as for on the run . it took blocking off the heat transfer with the intake to cool it down . fuel mileage really did not change , todays fuel is not any good heated . the answer is cool fuel , heat it in the cylinder when its compressed then fired off with the spark plug . my 2 cents
     
  16. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    The heat riser can indeed flop around and rattle although you would usually hear that noise from the engine compartment and front foot well. Most non A/C cars did not have a fan shroud. If you car is A/C equipped and it still works, you need the shroud. Most A/C cars also had a clutch fan, another item if it is defective that can cause excessive heating of the engine. The non A/C cars typically had a rigid fan mount.

    Dave
     
  17. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    You make a good point on the alcohol in the fuel, and I am sad to say i didn't think about it. I have a company that sells distillation equipment to licensed distilleries, so I am familiar with the temps of alcohol vaporizing. What other steps can I take to keep the fuel cool.... As of now there is a steel line coming from the fuel pump up to the top of the engine. It then coverts to a rubber hose and fuel filter to the carb.
     
  18. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    My car is non AC.
     
  19. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Being sure that the fuel line is not in close contact with and metal parts is about all that you can do. The higher octane gasoline blends have a slightly higher boil point although I don't know if they would make enough difference to help you. You might also try a tank of Real Gas if it is available in your area as that blend has no ethanol.

    Dave
     
  20. pomonamissel

    pomonamissel Senior Member

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    fuel lines should be lifted out of the heat as far as reasonable . no hose , the hose does not do well on top of engines . DSC03378.JPG DSC07848.JPG DSC08619.JPG