FBO Ignition Box & Coil

[PontiacJim]

Decided to do an upgrade to the electronic ignition box (ECU). Did a little research on the different types, factory and aftermarket, and the improvements they offered.

The FBO brand ECU unit seemed to me to be a good choice due to options I was interested in having. I did do a lot of reading on the unit and it appears there is a mix of negative and positive results. Noticed the negative complaints were early on when the ECU was first introduced into the market. Seems it has been improved and upgraded as a result. With a 5-year warranty, how bad could it be?

I liked the RPM limiter as I think this is always a good thing IF you enjoy exercising your car/engine. You may not think about it, but you can over rev an engine if the tire breaks loose on wet roads, sand, ice/snow, or rocking the car to get it unstuck. Me, I like to be heavy on the pedal at stop lights, LOL, which is not much with the stock 360CI, but I am planning a future engine rebuild and higher HP upgrades that will indeed break loose the single traction rear-end. So the Rev Limiter is insurance.
REV Limiter starts at 0=5200 Each click is 200 RPM Increase Last click is numbered 9=7000 RPM


I purchased a "kit" that included the Pertronix coil (which I use on all my older HP cars as well as their electronic distributor conversions), and a means to eliminate the ballast resistor which we all keep a spare in our glove boxes. Extended use of a coil with a non-compatible Primary resistance may cause the box to fail or coil to fail. Must be used with Pertronix 40011 Coil.

Straight forward and simple plug-and-play installation. I think it took me about 1 hour total to swap it all out. Found a weak wire connector on one of my coil wires so I corrected that.

Does it work? I would say it does. The car starts better and it does idle smoother. Seems to run smoother in general. I cannot say if it would run better if I just added a new/better ECU or the hotter coil alone. Figured I could use the upgraded ECU (the one that was on there was an older replacement and the epoxy on the back side was melting away), the added benefits of a hotter coil to improve spark performance, the elimination of the ballast resistor (and the grief when they go bad), and the Rev limiter for added insurance in the future.

Here is the Kit I purchased: FBO Ignition Box / REV Limiter, with Coil You can also get these items elsewhere and check out the FBO website as they have them and other Mopar items as well: FBO Ignition Systems

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[CBODY67]

Just curious . . . what is the desired result? Rev limiter. 44KV output (on demand)? The stock coil is usually good for about 30-35KV, as I recall from prior times.

The "on demand" notation is because the system, any system, will only build the voltage it needs to fire the plug, which is variable. Low demands at low throttle opening, higher demands with load and increased cylinder pressure, for example. If it can't build the voltage, misfire results. No multi-strike capabilities?

I know that many have had issues with Chrysler ballast resistors, but I've never replaced one. Lucky? Be that as it may.

CBODY67

 

[FURYGT]

One reason resistors fail is not upgrading to a heavy duty ballast resistor after converting to electronic ignition.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

You realize that's your wiper low speed resistor right? You now have one speed wipers on two different switch settings.
Switch red wire to the other ballast resistor to get your full 12 volts. Good to know the coil still works and can be switched back with stock ecu on Sunday evening when that one craps out.
Don't take this the wrong way but this is more re-engineering of the wheel just to have it still be round.
Were you having a problem with the plugs fouling or a high speed miss. What was the ignition doing wrong.
I will agree that the stock Mopar ECU will pull back you total timing at high (above 6000 rpm), they make a chrome box for high rpm use. A stock coil will flame out at high rpm and high compression above 12:1 , also with a good dose of nitrous. Is any of this planned? If so cool, I'm watching.

 

[Big_John]

The ECU includes a jumper wire to plug into the factory plugs to eliminate the ballast resistor. You could also cut and splice the wires together, but my guess is most of us are not going to do that, right? Here is what I did. To make the car look a little more like original, I kept the ballast resistor. BUT, I removed the resistor element from the backside to "dummy" it up and left the brass tangs where the factory wiring plugs into. The ECU supplied a brass clip & jumper wire (see the photo of the product) which presses over the tangs on the ballast resistor. I had to slightly file/narrow down the tangs on the ballast resistor to slip the double-pronged brass clip that came with the ECU and then plugged up my factory wires to make it appear a little more original. The supplied jumper wire in my installation is red in color (a black jumper wire could be made up to blend in a bit more). In doing it this way, should I ever have any problems, I still have my extra ballast resistor in the glove box and the old ECU as well and can easily swap it back to factory in a pinch to get me home.

Aside from doing this to the wrong resistor (wiper motor as mentioned above), "gutting" the resistor doesn't accomplish anything. You have run a jumper across the connections and that bypasses the resistor.

The ballast resistor you want to bypass is on the other side of the voltage regulator.

The wiper resistor is a different resistance value than your ignition ballast resistor, so your ignition ballast resistor isn't going to work for you as a replacement. The last time I saw a NOS one, it was around $50. It may be cheaper to buy a new wiper motor or maybe someone has a used one.

 

[CBODY67]

When the first electronic ignition kits came into the aftermarket, circa 1971 or so, there was a note that they'd retard the timing 1 degree/1000rpm. Some had that note, others didn't. This is compared to a point system. It's easy enough to tune for this with a few more degrees of base timing. But then, too, many drag racers wanted that retard on the top end as the engine would pull harder "down the track". Even in a high perf car, you'll not miss those few extra degrees of timing advance, typically. In bracket racing, you're running against you dial-in rather than "the other lane" per se. Big power is neat, but it's consistency that matters.

IF your engine specs need that extra power at that elevated 7K rpm level, then you need a better combination that makes more power (especially torque) at lower rpm than what you are considering. Aim for peak horsepower more like 6Krpm, where it's more useable in normal driving. Sacrificing low end power for that "top end rush" means that you'll generally be second to the finish line, by observation. Other variables can apply, too.

CBODY67

 

[PontiacJim]

OK, you got me, and that is why I am not an accomplished Mopar guy. Removed the embarrassing pics and text. Double checked in the Service Manual and sure enough, there it was in the drawing of the wiper motor. Still learning. I looked around and could not find any other ballast resistor that matched my spare or what I recall replacing in my youth other than the one atop of the wiper motor and this is why I assumed it was the correct one.

My manual shows the 4-prong dual ballast resistor as the one used for 1973, not the single type I thought I had and got as a back-up, so that helped to throw me off. Yep, guess I will look into sourcing a replacement resistor or another wiper motor as it seems to operate kinda slow even in the high speed mode and the wiper arms do not retract fully to the base of the windshield as they should when they snap back into position when you shut them off.

My reasoning for the ECU upgrade was to replace the one on the car which looked a little rough to begin with. Was not experiencing any problems per say, but it did have a slight rough spot/surge/skip that you could feel every once in a while and it was nothing to be concerned about because it could be just about anything to include the carb, crappy ethanol gas, one of the emission controls, or something in the ignition and I probably would go nuts trying to track it down - or it could be normal. Its got almost 59,000 on it now and I don't think I put 600 miles on it in the past year. Many serviceable parts have been replaced prior to me buying it and may have been done to make the car drivable and saleable as I think it has been parked for a while.

I read about the different Mopar ECU's and that the ECU essentially operated up to a specific RPM range. If I recall correctly, the factory box was good for around 5,000 RPM's The Orange box was good to 6,000 RPM's from what I read, but I also read about a lot of bad Chinese knock-offs. The thought of eliminating the "correct" ballast resistor was appealing because it was just one more thing that can go wrong on a trip or outing that I did not have to worry about. The FBO ECU seemed right, and the Pertornix coil was basically a requirement so as not to damage the ECU. I am no expert on ignitions or coil output. Again, I just assume change out/upgrade those items that can break down at some point in the life of the car seeing I don't plan on selling it.

I do plan on rebuilding/upgrading the engine for more HP sometime during the life of the car and look to set my RPM goals around 5,800 - 6,000 for a WOT blast. May do a 408 stroker build if money permits at the time of the rebuild, but will do better heads, pistons, rods, cam, carb, exhaust, etc. to get into the 300-325HP range with some good torque numbers. So again, the FBO seemed a good choice and I prefer some kind of RPM limiter just for added insurance.

The changes I did make did, in my opinion, helped in better starting, idling, and has seemingly smoothed out the engine. So that is my story, and I am sticking to it.

 

[CBODY67]

Thanks for the reply and information. I'll admit I've been "out of the loop" a bit, but I don't recall any "up to" rpm limits for the Chrysler ECU. Same ECU for a 360-2bbl as a 426 Hemi? One has lower rpm capabilities than the other, and one will go over 5000rpm. Just haven't seen that information, not to say that somebody might not have said it, for one reason or another.

In the ECU, I'd look for increased "dwell" time and "multi-strike". Seems that Pertronix has both of those? Possibly MSD, too? An rpm limiter is fine, too.

I might inquire where these "cheap Chinese knock-off" ECUs are coming from. Certain brands "made in China" or from online sellers?

The ONE thing I do know about the Orange Box is that it takes more voltage into it for the plugs to fire. The battery can be hot enough to spin the motor nicely, but not start until a set of jumper cables are attached, from another vehicle's charging system. To me, THAT is a bad deal, even if it might be better for higher rpm activity. Also, that makes the stock ECU a much better deal, with possibly a hotter coil, lower-resistance plug wires, and better spark plugs (as some brands take less juice to work).

What CAN affect higher-rpm "triggering" is the type of pickup in the distributor, as some have moved away from things like Chrysler has used to other methods. But this might be splitting hairs as the Chrysler ignition system has been in MoparPeft since the earlier 1970s, when high rpm performance was as important then as it might be now. Be that as it may.

The wiper motor's "park" function is usually done by an extra switch in the motor, triggered when the switch is turned "Off". Separate from the normal "speed" switch. Make sure the motor is getting all the voltage it needs before replacing it.

I understand the orientation to "make things better" and also to have a platform from which future items could be added. I suspect you did your "due diligence" in your research prior to the purchase. Just that your destination might not have been the best one, possibly.

Just remember, don't go to the bottom of the catalog page to look for a camshaft to buy.

CBODY67

 

[70bigblockdodge]

but I also read about a lot of bad Chinese knock-offs

I can see that.

The FBO ECU seemed right, and the Pertornix coil was basically a requirement so as not to damage the ECU

Best to follow their recommendations. At least you know it will still run a lower voltage coil if need be to cobble something just to get home.

 

[PontiacJim]

Thanks for the reply and information. I'll admit I've been "out of the loop" a bit, but I don't recall any "up to" rpm limits for the Chrysler ECU. Same ECU for a 360-2bbl as a 426 Hemi? One has lower rpm capabilities than the other, and one will go over 5000rpm. Just haven't seen that information, not to say that somebody might not have said it, for one reason or another.

In the ECU, I'd look for increased "dwell" time and "multi-strike". Seems that Pertronix has both of those? Possibly MSD, too? An rpm limiter is fine, too.

I might inquire where these "cheap Chinese knock-off" ECUs are coming from. Certain brands "made in China" or from online sellers?

The ONE thing I do know about the Orange Box is that it takes more voltage into it for the plugs to fire. The battery can be hot enough to spin the motor nicely, but not start until a set of jumper cables are attached, from another vehicle's charging system. To me, THAT is a bad deal, even if it might be better for higher rpm activity. Also, that makes the stock ECU a much better deal, with possibly a hotter coil, lower-resistance plug wires, and better spark plugs (as some brands take less juice to work).

What CAN affect higher-rpm "triggering" is the type of pickup in the distributor, as some have moved away from things like Chrysler has used to other methods. But this might be splitting hairs as the Chrysler ignition system has been in MoparPeft since the earlier 1970s, when high rpm performance was as important then as it might be now. Be that as it may.

The wiper motor's "park" function is usually done by an extra switch in the motor, triggered when the switch is turned "Off". Separate from the normal "speed" switch. Make sure the motor is getting all the voltage it needs before replacing it.

I understand the orientation to "make things better" and also to have a platform from which future items could be added. I suspect you did your "due diligence" in your research prior to the purchase. Just that your destination might not have been the best one, possibly.

Just remember, don't go to the bottom of the catalog page to look for a camshaft to buy.

CBODY67

Thanks for the input. I pick up some of my info, as most do, on other forums and websites. I did a little research to get background info on selecting the best ECU for my needs. What I gathered was that the different ECU's, stock, Orange, Chrome, each had a specific use and it was due to the RPM limit the ECU/color supported. That is where I got the RPM recommended "limits" from. Do not recall if the poor quality ECU's were purchase specific from one source or from the "deal department" at Ebay. Just read about problems and also the GM HEI module conversion to eliminate the ballast resistor.

I am as you figured, a "Pontiac" guy, but like all older cars and have owned many. My project car is my 1968 Lemans, body off the frame resto-mod with a pretty stout "old school" approach 455 .060" over - iron heads ported and smoothed out, 3 angle valve job, solid flat tappet cam, Edelbrock gear drive, forged rods/pistons, ARP studs throughout, Doug's headers, Pertronix Ignitor II distrib., MSD 6AL, etc. and going to have to cobble up my own tunnel ram for the dual Q-jets I will be using. Adding a small shot of nitrous. Backed by a TKO-600 trans, 12" cheater clutch, custom built Ford 9" with 3.89 gearing and traction lock. One piece tilt fiberglass nose minus the hood & fiberglass rear bumper. Still a couple years out to be finished.

I like BIG boaty cars, always have. Been looking for a long time for a car in my price range and one needing little work - I wanted a driver, not another project. The Fury popped up on Craig's list and I purchased it. It fit what I have been looking for, but I like a car with a little more power without going crazy 'cause I want to drive this one. Also want to keep the original driveline and not have to upgrade$$$$ with heavier trans/rear-end like my Lemans. I will also do some suspension upgrades as I like a big car that handles and "stiff" is OK with me.

The Fury is a "good weather" car and really don't ever use the wipers. I do want to get them working as they should, and since I screwed up the ballast resistor on it, may just hunt down a replacement.

Four years ago I built a 360 SixPack for my brother's car and spec'd out the drivetrain and installed it all. Took me a year for the build. All top quality parts and the car will smoke the tires through 1st gear and into 2nd without problem.

So at some point looking to build an engine similar minus the SixPack as that set-up is out of my price range. So I admit I don't have a lot of experience specific to Mopars, but have owned and worked on them in my younger years but nothing indepth. Always had GTO's back in the early 80's and have now gotten to the point in life I can afford to own, build, and tinker with these older cars again. What ever happen to those $300 dollar drive and go GTO's??? LOL I may be older, but I am still open to learning and that's why I am here.

 

[CBODY67]

Thanks for the info. Multi-carb induction was pretty neat, back then, but modern 4bbl intakes and a 4bbl will now make more power with less issues. I think one of the Edelbrock higher-rpm manifolds with a 700+cfm Street Demon or an EFI system would be more appropriate in more modern times. Others have their own prefs on carbs, though, which is fine.

A 408 Stroker would be neat, as all of the parts to do that are very available. If your car has the A-904 automatic, there are heavier-duty guts for it, too. Might need to deepen the rear axle ratio to 3.23 or 3.55, depending upon cam choice.

Helwig used to sell rear sway bar kits for the earlier C-body cars. One guy that used to come to our Mopar shows had a '66 Polara 2-dr ht. I looked under it at one of the later shows and saw a rear sway bar hanging under it. He used a 1st-gen Cordoba rear bar. He said he needed to heat it a little so it could line-up with the mounts, but that otherwise, it was a bolt-on fit. In the back of the Chrysler parts book, in the "Police/Taxi" section, it listed a rea sway bar for "LAPD" C-body cars, but I'd never heard or read of those anywhere else.

Not sure about the LA-block cars, but when a C-body B/RB car had factory a/c, it got the same front torsion bars as the "HD Suspension" option. Due to the architecture the front shocks have to deal with, they were only 1" piston diameter, but with "High-Control" valving. Rear shocks could be 1 3/8" piston bore, though, on the HD shocks. Monroe Super 500s were the aftermarket equivalent, back then. The OEMs had "MAECO" stamped on them, rather than a brand. Monroe Auto Equipment Company.

The balance of the HD Suspension was rear springs with more leaves. I don't recall any heavier front sway bars on C-body cars with B/RB engines. They were optional on the 318 cars, back then.

Not sure how much stuff is out there for a C-body Plymouth, in the way of suspension upgrades, other than urethane bushings and such, or the rear sway bar kit. There are probably some others and other threads in here on that subject.

Enjoy and welcome to the Chrysler side of town!
CBODY67

 

[PontiacJim]

OK, a follow up to my screw-up. Not having a broad knowledge of Mopars, and only working on a few in my youth, I thought that the ballast resistor on the wiper motor was "the" ballast resistor that can go bad and you then get your ignition woes. FBO said to jump this with their supplied wire, but I decided to eliminate its use altogether and pulled out the resistor on the backside. So as noted, I modified the wrong ballast resistor to coincide with my FBO electronic box.

The 2-speed wiper motor apparently uses the ballast resistor at the motor to provide the 2-speeds off the switch while the 3-speed wiper motor uses the actual switch to provide the 3-speeds via the built in resistors. (Assuming this to be correct from what I read?)

Could not find anything in my Service manual other than the wiring diagram, a picture of the 1973 4-pronged ballast resistor and how the ignition system worked.I did some research and nothing concrete popped out as to what the actual OHM reading of the resistor was - seems this is a closely guarded Mopar secret hidden from all us GM guys. GM just made it so simple, you put in a new switch.

The 2-speed wiper motor uses the ballast resistor to provide the lower wiper speed when the wiper switch on the dash is turned to the first setting. It drops 12volts to something like 8.5volts from what I could gather. Put the wiper switch on high, and the full 12volts goes to the wiper motor and you have your fast high speed wipers.

So scouring the internet for just a new ballast resistor was futile -nothing popped up. Best bet is to simply purchase a used 2-speed wiper motor and snag the ballast resistor off it in hopes it is good.

Could find little on the actual Ohms the ballast resistor was either. Got all kinds of numbers like 1.3 Ohms, 1.1 Ohms, under 1.0 Ohms, .5 Ohms, and everything in between including some replies that were so technical in theory and testing that they were absurdly useless unless you were an electrical scientist with a PhD presenting a thesis on ballast resistors. I am just an average Joe - I just wanted to know what the GD Ohms should be on the resistor so I could source a replacement.

So I took a chance knowing the Ohms had to be less than the full 12volts and purchased an MSD Coil Ballast Resistor, 0.8 Ohm, Part No. 8214, $10.35, from Summit Racing. Installed it, and my wipers work as factory - low speed & high speed.

I also read that when the ballast resistor weakens or goes bad, your wipers will not retract fully down below the hood. My wipers would not fully retract when shut down and would lay on the lower edge of my windshield and not drop down out of sight. The new ballast resistor cured that problem. Now when I turn off the wipers, they fully retract to the correct position hidden below the hood.

The install was straight forward EXCEPT that I did have to drill a new mounting hole lower than the hole with the supplied bracket. Other than that, it bolted into place and the factory plugs pushed right on the ballast resistor prongs.

Took the old car out for a spin today and it ran like a charm.

 

[commando1]

I never gave the ballast on the wiper motor a second thought, if any. Good stuff. Thanks.

 

[BillGrissom]

Thanks for posting and links. Since it still requires a ballast, or a "ballasted coil", it is based on older electronics (aka 1980's). The GM 8-pin HEI module (1985-95 V-8) has dwell control to eliminate the ballast, so can use a better e-core coil. The A-body forum has much info and one member there sells kits for those afraid of junkyards. That is the best way for converting early cars w/ points. The FBO one requires no rewiring for 1971+ cars. But, the GM HEI has no rev limiter (unless you use w/ computer control like Holley Commander 950). MSD Ignitor III has rev limiter and is a good option for those w/ points distributors.

 

[PontiacJim]

"Since it still requires a ballast, or a "ballasted coil", it is based on older electronics (aka 1980's)."

NO, the FBO Ignition Module does not require a ballast. The FBO set-up eliminates the ballast resistor, but you must use the corresponding Pertronix coil.

"From their website: Remove the ballast resistor, solder and heat shrink the wires together. Or just use the simple Ballast Jumper included with every HRR688 Kit to bypass.

This is a Plug & Play unit, mounts in standard ECU holes and plugs into Mopar Harness.

Must be used with FBO HRR Coil (Pertronix 40011). Extended use of a coil with a non-compatible Primary resistance and designed to run a 12V system may cause the box or coil or both to fail.

DO NOT USE BLASTER, Accell or Mallory COILS!

Coils are Pertronix 40011 available at all FBO dealers or O'Rielly's Nationwide."

• 5 Year Warranty