Fiat-Chrysler=PSA merger

That isn't per month.
Okay decided to look up the numbers of cars per month sales for Charger, Challenger, Fusion, Impala to give an insight into what we are dealing with.
2019 sales figures av per month to the end of June this year according to "carsalesbase.com"

Charger- 7500
Challenger- 4700
Impala- 4300 to be discontinued
Fusion - 16 000 to be discontinued

And lastly, RAM and Jeep numbers for what they sell by comparison
Jeep - 56 000
Ram - 65 000
 
Okay decided to look up the numbers of cars per month sales for Charger, Challenger, Fusion, Impala to give an insight into what we are dealing with.
2019 sales figures av per month to the end of June this year according to "carsalesbase.com"

Charger- 7500
Challenger- 4700
Impala- 4300 to be discontinued
Fusion - 16 000 to be discontinued

And lastly, RAM and Jeep numbers for what they sell by comparison
Jeep - 56 000
Ram - 65 000
Which Jeep ? Wrangler or Grand Cherokee
Yes the Dodge division is having a great 2019. True not many offerings. To put this in perspective the Camry & Maxima are down significantly in sales.
The merger with Fiat was bad but necessary (long story) the merger with Pugeot is bad & NOT necessary.
 
Interesting...

upload_2019-10-31_18-40-7.jpeg


upload_2019-10-31_18-42-36.jpeg
 
Which Jeep ? Wrangler or Grand Cherokee
Yes the Dodge division is having a great 2019. True not many offerings. To put this in perspective the Camry & Maxima are down significantly in sales.
The merger with Fiat was bad but necessary (long story) the merger with Pugeot is bad & NOT necessary.
Wrangler and Cherokee together.
But the figures are there for comparisons only, not a commentary on the merger.

As I get older I find myself getting less emotionally involved in what should or should not happen. So for me it's more of a case of, look at the cold numbers and consider how bean counters look at it. Its usually how it ends up anyway.
How much to create a whole new platform for the challenger and charger in the next couple of years? Will they get a good return on investment with low risk projections?
As stated, most medium car sales are falling across the board. I would suggest that will be a telling factor in the decision to renew it or not.
 
With no family members employed by an automaker anymore and myself retired I’m not too exited either way. As long as FCA stays in A.H. This merger shuts that down it’ll destroy this neighborhood. Volkswagen of America moving out was bad enough.
 
Wrangler and Cherokee together.
But the figures are there for comparisons only, not a commentary on the merger.

As I get older I find myself getting less emotionally involved in what should or should not happen. So for me it's more of a case of, look at the cold numbers and consider how bean counters look at it. Its usually how it ends up anyway.
How much to create a whole new platform for the challenger and charger in the next couple of years? Will they get a good return on investment with low risk projections?
As stated, most medium car sales are falling across the board. I would suggest that will be a telling factor in the decision to renew it or not.
Jeep sells a lot more vehicles than those two. There is a Grand Cherokee & a smaller Cherokee , Renegade & Compass. And just came out with the Gladiator pick up. Jeep has more models than Chrysler X 2
 
Wrangler and Cherokee together.
But the figures are there for comparisons only, not a commentary on the merger.

As I get older I find myself getting less emotionally involved in what should or should not happen. So for me it's more of a case of, look at the cold numbers and consider how bean counters look at it. Its usually how it ends up anyway.
How much to create a whole new platform for the challenger and charger in the next couple of years? Will they get a good return on investment with low risk projections?
As stated, most medium car sales are falling across the board. I would suggest that will be a telling factor in the decision to renew it or not.
No plans to renew the Challenger. Selling too good. Charger just a facelift only soon. Durango stays intact as well
 
Jeep sells a lot more vehicles than those two. There is a Grand Cherokee & a smaller Cherokee , Renegade & Compass. And just came out with the Gladiator pick up. Jeep has more models than Chrysler X 2
We just got a Cherokee and it's a pretty nice vehicle. Laura uses the power lift gate way more than she ever thought, and I have to admit it's very convenient. It has four wheel drive so she shouldn't get stuck, or have any issues. Maybe it's AWD as it chooses front or all wheel drive. Either way, she and I like it, and I hope to never spend that much on a car again! They are everywhere near me, I see about a dozen a day, anywhere I go.
 
Challenger sales remain strong. Over 20 thousand units ahead of the Camaro & out sold the Mustang in the 3rd qtr. 15 thousand units behind the Mustang year to date. The Mustang & Camaro are declining every year. The Challenger has remained in the 50-55 thousand area for several years now. The Charger outsells the Challenger but largely from fleet sales & its competition the Ford Fusion & Chevy Impala have already bit the dust so the Charger should get a boost in sale from that. The 300 is the car that’s puzzling. It’s a strong car in its class yet sales are poor. It’s likely to get the ax.

Sales Q1-Q2 2019

Mustang 38,542 down 9.2% over last year/Q1-Q2 + 16,826 Q3
Challenger 28,668 down 23% over last year/Q1-Q2 + 18,031 Q3
Camaro 24,516 down 3.4% over last year/Q!-Q2 + 12,275 Q3

I don't know if I'd call 50,000 strong sales especially if some feel that 50,000 for the Camaro could cause it to be axed soon. Q3 2019 is the only quarter Challenger sales were up as seen above they were down for Q1 and Q2 compared to 2018.
 
Sales Q1-Q2 2019

Mustang 38,542 down 9.2% over last year/Q1-Q2 + 16,826 Q3
Challenger 28,668 down 23% over last year/Q1-Q2 + 18,031 Q3
Camaro 24,516 down 3.4% over last year/Q!-Q2 + 12,275 Q3

I don't know if I'd call 50,000 strong sales especially if some feel that 50,000 for the Camaro could cause it to be axed soon. Q3 2019 is the only quarter Challenger sales were up as seen above they were down for Q1 and Q2 compared to 2018.
Where are you finding Challenger sales down 23%. That’s not what FCA reported. They where bragging at the end of the 3rd qtr that they had beat the Mustang & said incentives likely so they could do it again in the 4th. They had a year end sales taget of over 55k which is right in line. I posted it when the news broke. Rams sales beat Silverado. The Camaro haven’t sold 50 in years. The current styling has not been well received
 
The scoreboard looks different when we examine 2019's year-to-date figures. The Mustang takes first place with 55,365 sales, followed by the Challenger at 46,699, and the Camaro at 36,791. While the Challenger's recent ascent is encouraging, it can't mask the fact that two-door models no longer enjoy a favorable tailwind, and the entire segment — not just the American entries — is declining. The aforementioned year-to-date figures are down by 10.1, 11, and 7.6 percent, respectively.
Source Autoblog

Down 11 % from a peak in 2018.
Still expecting 55k units for the year. That’s strong for a 11 year old car in this segment.
 
The numbers of units sold matter, but the profit on those u its will make the determination. This will likely be a company that won't feel the need or desire to have a whole series of loss leaders
 
I think I’m the only active, direct employee here; so I’ll add $.02 from the inside. It’s not what you’ll read in the print/radio/TV media. Their failing business models scarcely fund their local crime and mayhem coverage, let alone any deep-thought analysis. So modern business reporting is essentially paraphrasing press releases and has been since the days of the Daimler takeover.

In two sentences… Chrysler merging with another automaker, after being forced into a merger with FIAT, was as inevitable as death itself. The only variables now are quality of life and how long do we live? If you choose to read beyond that, it’s at your own risk.

OK, are we just down to the extra-credit students now? It’s a pretty open secret that the Agnelli family; which is as tied into FIAT as the Ford family is to Ford, has wanted to cash-out of the automobile business for a long time. They’ve already spun-off Ferrari and Magneti Marelli. (As a historical tidbit, FIAT is not a surname, it’s an acronym… Rough translation, Factory-Italian-Automobiles-Turin.) Quite honestly, I don’t blame them. My long-long-range forecast for the auto industry isn’t promising as auto companies are between a rock and a hard place. The more they autotomize their products and remove drivers from the equation, the more they commoditize their products. Commodities have very low profit margins. Yet if they resist technology, they fall behind and in some cases, risk be legislated out of business. The efficient packaging of the CUV/SUV/Minivan is the step just before lopping off the engine compartment, moving electric motors to individual wheels and placing the batteries under the floor. To expect any other shape is to think we’ll all go back to watching TV in your choice of Colonial, Provincial or Danish Modern wooden cabinets.

Just prior to being offered Chrysler by the Obama administration, no one was interested in buying FIAT. At one point in the early 2000s, GM had negotiated a deal to purchase them. Amazingly for GM, they pulled back from this folly and wasted $5 billion to get out of the deal. This sudden cash windfall and the faddish success of the FIAT 500 retro-car in Europe made them appear to be geniuses to Washington D.C. legislators who think businesses exist as day-care centers to help get their even stupider kids out of the basement. (Looking at you, Hunter Biden.) The groundwork for most of what made Chrysler successful post-2011 was done under Cerberus ownership starting in 2008. Re-contented products, Pentastar V6, and a few other things. You don’t steer the Titanic around an iceberg on a dime; meaning what appeared in 2011 took years to develop. But politically, the loans required to re-furbish Daimler’s deferred-maintenance factories had to be connected to a cute 40 MPG car so the coastal greenies would agree. Enter Exor (FIAT’s parent company) and Sergio Marchionne.

When fuel prices and credit markets stabilized (as the market always does), Chrysler was well-positioned to be profitable. Thus the push for Exor to cash-out began with Sergio even threatening to force GM to buy the newly-created FCA by mobilizing activist shareholders. Less forceful overtures were made to anyone who would listen for about a decade, regardless of “synergy”. So it was inevitable, and obviously not driven only by Sergio.

As to the deal itself… Could be worse. Renault would have been worse. They’re tied up with their own merger-related problems while their former CEO rots in a Japanese jail cell. Some have said Carlos Ghosen was set-up to lesson French influence over their partner, Nissan. Sort of like having your cop brother-in-law charge you with “resisting and disorderly” just before you divorce his sister. Who wants to marry into that mess?

If Carlos Tavares of Peugeot is smart, he’ll do almost nothing but collaborate on the future-commodities end of the business… driver-assists (autonomous), battery technology, infotainment/connectivity, while keeping the brands and platforms separate. What’s profitable in the U.S. doesn’t sell in Europe and vis-versa.

Of course all of this is possible without a financial tie-up. It’s done all the time. GM is partners with Honda on autonomous vehicles. Ford just announced a partnership with VW. BMW is lending expertise to Toyota for a sports car. In fact, just type “[car company] partners with” and Google will happily finish your sentence. And then see how many are partnered with Google as well.

So will there be fewer auto companies going forward, and will more of them merge? Yes. But as I said, that’s because the automobile is fast becoming a “mobility device”. The ONLY and MOST important variable that I consider to be in play relates to the rationale for maintaining a domestic auto industry. Unless you’d like to go bankrupt in the same style as the Soviet Union… Trying to keep pace with military weaponry without a viable consumer manufacturing base. OR perhaps go back to buying and reverse engineering weaponry from Germany as we did as recently as the 1920s, you need peacetime employment for hundreds-of-thousands; perhaps even millions of engineering disciplines. That’s not a guy up in Michigan installing a bolt into a hole at Ford, nor is it a woman in Tennessee putting a nut on a stud at Nissan. It’s no coincidence that TACOM (U.S. Army Tank-automotive & Armaments Command) is located across the street from GM’s R&D headquarters. Automobile design and production involves more disciplines than I could even cover without further boring you, but some of the glittery-ones would be robotics, combustion science, aerodynamics, fluid dynamics, electronics, machine tooling, encrypted software and artificial intelligence. This is just an off-hand sample of the 15,000 people I share a building with every day… at the smallest D3 R&D center. Now let me tell you what “foreign nameplate” auto companies don’t do in the United States… Everything I just mentioned.

Yes, they have facilities in the USA, but at best they are field offices with neither the headcount, capital equipment or scale to truly play a role if **** ever went down. The corresponding argument would be meeting a world history and 2nd amendment enthusiast, then asking if they’re OK with being limited to a .22 pistol because “it’s technically a firearm." Off-shore home offices have no intention of ever expanding to the levels seen in their homeland. I’d refer you back to an Automotive News article where the interviewed heads of R&D from foreign rivals said as much, despite the cost advantages of American professional/skilled labor. You may feel free to hang any label you wish; xenophobe, nativist, old fart, etc. upon me, but make sure you include “person who studies history and understands the mechanical development and production cycle”. That’s why you’ll never see me saying things like “It doesn’t matter anymore” or “I have no loyalty to American names”. In certain sectors, like consumer electronics, this may be true. It most certainly does not apply to the Auto Industry, even in the foreseeable future.

So let’s hope for the best!
 
Where are you finding Challenger sales down 23%. That’s not what FCA reported. They where bragging at the end of the 3rd qtr that they had beat the Mustang & said incentives likely so they could do it again in the 4th. They had a year end sales taget of over 55k which is right in line. I posted it when the news broke. Rams sales beat Silverado. The Camaro haven’t sold 50 in years. The current styling has not been well received

Searched google asking for sales of those three cars. All sites had the same numbers so I knew they were correct. Challenger was down 23% in Q1-Q2 2019 vs. Q1-Q2 2018. In Q3 2019 they were up vs. Q3 2018. Now when Q4 is eventually released we will no doubt see all three of them down 2019 over 2018. Things are not looking good for two performance cars in the long run. When I was 21 in 1974 we all wanted such a car but not today. What surprises me is Toyota bringing back the 2 dr. Celica now.
 
BMW is lending expertise to Toyota for a sports car
No, they just rebadged a Z4. You could literally turn your Toyota into a BMW in a few minutes at a local mall.
Pull up to a Z4 and switch the bumper covers, the tricky part would be getting to the engine cover with a locked hood.
Poor BMW owners just got corrupted with a appliance company.
It's a bad time to be in any large industry. IMO most company brass just want to shine up the stocks and accounting ledgers to be "successful". I think none of them have any vision for the companies they run. I used to think I was in a industry that could not be shipped overseas. Wrong, they have recruiting campaigns to bring overseas to here. I hope I'm around just long enough to see the next large corporate meltdown, and not have to live through the aftermath.
 
Last edited:
So will there be fewer auto companies going forward, and will more of them merge? Yes. But as I said, that’s because the automobile is fast becoming a “mobility device”. The ONLY and MOST important variable that I consider to be in play relates to the rationale for maintaining a domestic auto industry. Unless you’d like to go bankrupt in the same style as the Soviet Union… Trying to keep pace with military weaponry without a viable consumer manufacturing base. OR perhaps go back to buying and reverse engineering weaponry from Germany as we did as recently as the 1920s, you need peacetime employment for hundreds-of-thousands; perhaps even millions of engineering disciplines. That’s not a guy up in Michigan installing a bolt into a hole at Ford, nor is it a woman in Tennessee putting a nut on a stud at Nissan. It’s no coincidence that TACOM (U.S. Army Tank-automotive & Armaments Command) is located across the street from GM’s R&D headquarters. Automobile design and production involves more disciplines than I could even cover without further boring you, but some of the glittery-ones would be robotics, combustion science, aerodynamics, fluid dynamics, electronics, machine tooling, encrypted software and artificial intelligence. This is just an off-hand sample of the 15,000 people I share a building with every day… at the smallest D3 R&D center. Now let me tell you what “foreign nameplate” auto companies don’t do in the United States… Everything I just mentioned.
I agree 100%. This is why I have NEVER owned a foreign car and NEVER will.
 
Back
Top