If the GTO wasn’t the first muscle car, then what was?

[rexus31]

Have you upgraded anything on it? I know you like them very pure.

Unfortunately, the original 389 Tri Power was long gone when I bought the car but it is a PHS Documented original Tri Power, 4 Speed car. It currently has a .030 over 400 with #64 455 HO Heads, a Crane Cam with 272/272 Duration and 454/454 Lift with 1.5" Rockers backed by the original Muncie 4 Speed with 3:55 gears. It's got a little more bump than stock, which I like in this car. If you dump the clutch and mat it, it will sit there in 1st smoking the tires and will lay a serious amount of rubber in 2nd and chirp 3rd. It can move pretty good; lots of torque.

 

[Fury440]

Interesting trip back in time. Back in the early 60's we had most every straight section of road marked off with 1/4 mile markers and impromptu drag races were the norm. Most were 350 Chevy 4spd vs auto. Then a few big gm and ford 400 plus size engines appeared and the races were mostly between those engine owners. Then a couple of Plymouths arrived, both had early hemi engines, one auto and the other 4spd. They beat everyone and interestingly the auto consistently beat the 4spd. The two owners were buddies and they would switch cars to see if the difference was the driver or the car, it was the car. Up to that point the Old's hydromatic was the drag king transmission. The new Mopar auto blew it away. By the end of the 60's the Mopar hemi auto was nearly impossible to beat and with the killer automatic anyone could go really fast.

I bought my 70 Fury with 440/auto at the same time as my brother-in-law bought a 70 GTO Judge 454/auto. We didn't race often but when we did the two cars were pretty equal. However one night I was challenged by a gm looking car that I didn't recognize. He didn't just blow me away, he nearly blew me right off the road! Caught up to him later and got my first real look at a 70 Old's 442 454 4spd. You definitely have to respect those 442's as being one of the first "full size" muscle cars.

 

[rexus31]

Interesting trip back in time. Back in the early 60's we had most every straight section of road marked off with 1/4 mile markers and impromptu drag races were the norm. Most were 350 Chevy 4spd vs auto. Then a few big gm and ford 400 plus size engines appeared and the races were mostly between those engine owners. Then a couple of Plymouths arrived, both had early hemi engines, one auto and the other 4spd. They beat everyone and interestingly the auto consistently beat the 4spd. The two owners were buddies and they would switch cars to see if the difference was the driver or the car, it was the car. Up to that point the Old's hydromatic was the drag king transmission. The new Mopar auto blew it away. By the end of the 60's the Mopar hemi auto was nearly impossible to beat and with the killer automatic anyone could go really fast.

I bought my 70 Fury with 440/auto at the same time as my brother-in-law bought a 70 GTO Judge 454/auto. We didn't race often but when we did the two cars were pretty equal. However one night I was challenged by a gm looking car that I didn't recognize. He didn't just blow me away, he nearly blew me right off the road! Caught up to him later and got my first real look at a 70 Old's 442 454 4spd. You definitely have to respect those 442's as being one of the first "full size" muscle cars.

C'mon, man! Chevy's had 454's. Buick, Olds and Pontiac's had 455's!

 

[rapidtrans]

I still go with the GTO as 1st Muscle Car. It was the 1st to offer the big engine in a smaller car line. Pony cars soon followed the same premise. Previously the biggest motor went into the biggest car. DeLorean got by the GM monitors by slipping the GTO package with the big engine in as an option. No special order required.

 

[Fury440]

C'mon, man! Chevy's had 454's. Buick, Olds and Pontiac's had 455's!

See how good your memory is after 75 years!

 

[cm23uoc]

The Buick Century already starting in 1936 is also considered a "muscle car" (I go with Will using the term a bit in dislike) in the stricter definition by combing the shorter Special Body with a Roadmaster engine.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

The Buick Century already starting in 1936 is also considered a "muscle car" (I go with Will using the term a bit in dislike) in the stricter definition by combing the shorter Special Body with a Roadmaster engine.

You beat me to it. The Buick Century - called Century because it could easily hit 100 miles per hour, which in 1938 was out of the reach of most cars except the super expensive cars like Duesenbergs etc...

Also before that, anything Stutz was faster than most things on the road.

 

[rapidtrans]

C'mon, man! Chevy's had 454's. Buick, Olds and Pontiac's had 455's!

I loved running a 340 Duster against those guys!

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Unfortunately, the original 389 Tri Power was long gone when I bought the car but it is a PHS Documented original Tri Power, 4 Speed car. It currently has a .030 over 400 with #64 455 HO Heads, a Crane Cam with 272/272 Duration and 454/454 Lift with 1.5" Rockers backed by the original Muncie 4 Speed with 3:55 gears. It's got a little more bump than stock, which I like in this car. If you dump the clutch and mat it, it will sit there in 1st smoking the tires and will lay a serious amount of rubber in 2nd and chirp 3rd. It can move pretty good; lots of torque.

I hope you upgraded the brakes.
A 4 speed mid-size car is one of life's best theropys, I can forget all about any troubles for a few miles in one, and that is after rowing a 15 spd all day.

 

[rexus31]

I hope you upgraded the brakes.

I did. Disks up front.

 

[MoPar Maniac]

You definitely have to respect those 442's as being one of the first "full size" muscle cars.

They were intermediates, not full size.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I gotta say the D500 Dodges qualify. Big engine in mid priced car, with no extra flash.

 

[Sixpactogo]

The definition of "Muscle Car" was classified as a high powered engine in a mid sized body. The GTO was the first car to be labeled as a Muscle car but there were plenty earlier cars that could be considered. I have a friend that mentioned the 50 Olds which was a fast car back then. I agree. For sure the 413 B bodies in 1962 fit in the category. Most of them were still cleaning the clocks of mid 60's GTO's. There is plenty of fodder out there for argument though. Plenty of high powered C body Mopars along with the full sized Ford and GM products but they need not apply since they don't fit in the class. Barnfind in post #16 nailed it.

 

[bluefury361]

The definition of "Muscle Car" was classified as a high powered engine in a mid sized body. .

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

I think the GTO did start a movement of sorts, as did the 64 ½ Mustang for pony cars. I had a professor in engineering school teaching kinematics & dynamics (that 's for you Stan, one of my last semesters of pre business school ) and he told me his brother had a 409 Impala that was the king of the hill until the GTO came out. He said the thing constantly fouled plugs, and the 389 would walk away from it.

The strongest horse in the 64 1/2 'Stang in standard form the 260 V8 with no up grades. "Til Shelby got hold of the '65 Stang when the 289 replaced it and the GT's were soon born.

 

[commando1]

The definition of "Muscle Car" was classified as a high powered engine in a mid sized body.

Show me where that's the official definition, please. It will be appreciated.

The GTO was the first car to be labeled as a Muscle car

And again....

 

[rexus31]

Show me where that's the official definition, please. It will be appreciated.

Definition of MUSCLE CAR

 

[Fratzog]

Definition of MUSCLE CAR

If that is the definition would this qualify?

 

[Carmine]

But I agree that the '64 GTO was the first musclecar. Now what?

 

[Carmine]

But I agree that the '64 GTO was the first musclecar. Now what?

It's just a BS marketing term. I accept the GTO because everything came together and mainstream with that car's success. To claim otherwise sounds like VW deadheads who try to claim the microbus was the first minivan... sure, if your definition was some ill-handling shop project that couldn't cruise on the highway and had zero impact on station wagon sales.

The GTO wasn't the first performance car, but was the first to package the whole image. That's what GM was good at... Chrysler by comparison was/is often lucky if it's product planning can avoid shooting itself in the foot. The 300 is an excellent example of this be it 1955 or 2015.