Minivan Madness

[bigmoparjeff]

I've fallen way behind on my Minivan Madness updates. I'm back home for a little while, so it's time to get things up to date.


These strut assemblies are just plain nasty.

My normal procedure for doing struts is to paint a line down one side to make it easy to get it all back together in the right orientation. Wasn't so easy this time since I would be blasting and painting the springs. The 2000 minivan service manual was no help, since it gave conflicting instructions on how to clock the springs. Said it was critical to have them clocked correctly. Between the two vans, each of the four springs was clocked differently, telling me that the factory didn't pay any attention to spring position. Just for the hell of it, I checked a 1998 manual, and it had much better instructions, so I followed that.

Decent strut compressor, but not as good as the Branick or larger, bench-mounted OTC.

The springs and upper seats were the only items to be re-used.

Didn't take a picture, but even the rebound bumpers were shot. Bought Sachs bumper and bellows kits from Rock Auto and they were very similar to the factory parts. The other brand kits weren't even close.

Made a special tool to tighten the upper nut. Checked ebay and only one seller had the official tool for way more money than I was willing to spend. Considering how popular these vans were I would have expected OTC or Lisle to make one, but they don't.

Slight improvement over what came off the van.

Front end back together. Rotors look painted, but it's actually some kind of plating.

Jeff

 

[65sporty]

Looks good

 

[garyh]

Good for another 200 k miles !

 

[bigmoparjeff]

For today's episode, we move to the back of the van.

Another common problem with these is the leaf spring bushing sleeves can rust pretty bad, in fact they can expand enough to snap off the end of the leaf spring. I don't want that to happen, so it's time for new bushings. As you can see by the cut-off mounting bolt, it was seized in the center of the bushing.

My first attempt at removal was a failure. There's just so much rubber in the bushing that it'll need to be on fire all day to burn it out.

Ended up drilling a bunch of holes through the rubber until the center fell out, then chiseling out the rest with the air hammer.

The rear shackles came apart much easier.

Leaf spring mounting brackets were rotting away quite badly. Replacements weren't available, so these got blasted and painted to at least stop any further deterioration.

Replacement front bushings are available aftermarket, but I scored some NOS ones on ebay for a reasonable price. The rear shackles got Chinese bushings because OEM are a ridiculous $14 each and there are 8 of them.

New bushing installed with a healthy dose of anti-seize to slow down the rusting process.

Jeff

 

[bigmoparjeff]

Spare tire winch was rusty and broken, so ebay to the rescue again with a nice unit from Florida. One thing seller didn't specify was there's a difference between winches for space saver spares and full size spare. My yellowish original is for a full size, where the black replacement is for a compact. Now I have to add a compact spare to the shopping list.

I had a fresh quart of Rustoleum Professional gloss gray paint laying around that I had bought for a different project but didn't use. Decided to slap it on the bottom of the van to pretty it up. I didn't really do any prep, so it may end up peeling off after a while, so time will tell on that.

New stainless brake lines are in. New Dorman parking brake cable in picture was crap and got replaced with a genuine Mopar cable later on.

The Inline Tube lines fit pretty well. As expected, they needed some minor tweaking, but they all went where they needed to go. As I suspected, the line set is for rear drum with ABS, not rear disc.

If I had opened the package sooner, I would have painted the ugly brown spring a different color.

Before:

After:

The original brake lines had stainless flex hoses in four spots to isolate noise from the subframe to the body, but the replacement lines are solid. I don't expect the change to be all that noticeable. The factory lines with the flex hoses are no longer available from Chrysler, and they were well over $100 per line.

I also learned that on these aftermarket lines, you really have to crank down tight on the fittings to keep them from leaking.

Jeff

 

[bigmoparjeff]

I bought a cheap aftermarket pump on closeout from Rock Auto that claimed to be OE quality, but after seeing it in person I decided to invest in a better pump. This genuine Mopar pump is available on ebay for less than many of the pumps that Rock Auto sells. It's made by Walbro, just like the original. I'll put the cheap closeout pump in the Town & Country instead.

The green pumps are E-85 compatible, which I don't need, plus they're twice the price.

New straps from Rock Auto, 14 bucks.

Jeff

 

[bigmoparjeff]

As far as the radiator "module" was concerned, I originally only planned to replace the noisy cooling fans. A little later I figured that it would be wise to replace the original 20 year old radiator. Once I pulled the unit out of where it had been stored for a few months, it was clear that more items would also need replacing.

Aluminum cooling fins are turning to dust on the condensers and trans cooler. Wherever it's set down it leaves a big pile of dust on the ground. Looks like it's time to hit the internet again.

Wood chuck destroyed the wiring for the electric fans. I grabbed a good harness on one of my junkyard trips.

Auxiliary condenser from Chrysler is almost $300 so I gambled on an aftermarket one. Not surprising, it's a cheap piece of junk. The condensers are run in series, so all your refrigerant has to go through both. Aftermarket is tiny compared to the original. The aux condenser wasn't nearly as corroded as the main condenser and trans cooler, so I decided to try to save it. It was a major pain in the ***, but I restored the original one. It took a lot of work to remove the peeling paint from between the fins. I used paint stripper on it first, then glass beaded it. Finished up with a coat of black brake caliper paint.

Here's the completed assembly. A huge surprise was that the Spectra Premium radiator was made in Canada, though as expected, the fan assembly is from China.

I found a killer deal on a brand new genuine Mopar main condenser on ebay for $55, and a reasonable deal on a Mopar trans cooler.

I evacuated the A/C system for almost two hours, then added a couple cans of 134. All seems well at this point. Got the van fired up for the first time. The junkyard engine sounds great and the trans engages forward and reverse. I was worried at first because it wasn't even trying to start, but it just takes forever to bleed the air out of a single line fuel system that doesn't have a return to the tank, as all the air has to be forced through the injectors.

Of course, once it was running I could hear exhaust leaking from the seam on the top of the muffler. $200 later, and we've got a new exhaust too.

Jeff

 

[65sporty]

Looks good, I didn't know woodchucks would chew wiring.

 

[bigmoparjeff]

Looks good, I didn't know woodchucks would chew wiring.

In addition to wiring, they also like rubber hoses, undercoating, old grease, and hood insulation pads. Have no idea what attracts them to the stuff, considering that they have access to more vegetable based food than they could ever need to consume.

Jeff

 

[bigmoparjeff]

Now that much of the mechanical work is done, it's time to head to the body shop.

Front end sheet metal came off. Hood had a dime sized rust hole through the skin near the front edge.

Both fenders had minor collision damage.

Had to deal with this strange paint issue before reassembling things. The fender is not touching the A pillar, so it's odd that the paint bridged the gap instead of going down into the crevice as one would expect it to. I also straightened out the crushed-in pinch welds where the fenders bolt on to the rockers.

The A pillars got a quick sanding, some etching primer, and a coat of Dupli-Color with clear on top.

Replacement metal installed, along with new headlamp assemblies.

Brand new NOS air dam to replace the one that got ripped off years ago. Found out later that this is available aftermarket for 1/3 what I paid.

Air dam installed. The bottom of the bumper cover attaches to it, so it's important that it be there.

Bumper cover back on. I painted the cover about 6 years ago following one of the previous owner's many fender benders. Unfortunately the paint that I painted over is starting to peel off the plastic in spots, but that's a job for another day. I also have an extra cover off the same van that donated the new sheet metal parts, but is has too many scratches in the paint to just bolt it on.

The van and the replacement parts are all still in original paint, so the color is just about dead on. The abbreviated pin stripes are the only sign that something's been done.

Jeff

 

[bigmoparjeff]

Just a quickie update for tonight. I started this part of the project months ago, but put the finishing touches on it tonight.


Another super-common problem on these vans is a big rust hole behind the left rear wheel well. Water leaks in from somewhere up in the roof and ends up in this spot, rotting out the floor. I'm still working on finding the source of the water leak. The Chrysler is outside in the rain and I can see the water dripping out of a seam in the roof structure, but cannot see where it is coming in.

Rusty metal gone.

No more hole.

The view looking up from the bottom. I'll deal with the hole in the bottom of the quarter next year when I take care of some other rust spots.

Instead of spending $20 on a tube of automotive urethane sealer, I bought this from Home Depot for around $6. I think it should work just fine, but it does dry really slow.

Replacement sound deadener sheet installed.

Jeff

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

Been following your project with great interest Jeff. On my 2000 Grand Caravan I can not keep the drain hole open at the base on the windshield on the passenger side. Every time it rains I get wet carpet on that side. Any thoughts? 'Nother question for you lol. Have you found a source for a headliner on these beasts? My Mini is a Braunability Conversion Van(Side Ramp) but other then that we live with the same Mini. BTW, Will we see you at Carlisle this July? Stay Warm, Jer

 

[bigmoparjeff]

Been following your project with great interest Jeff. On my 2000 Grand Caravan I can not keep the drain hole open at the base on the windshield on the passenger side. Every time it rains I get wet carpet on that side. Any thoughts? 'Nother question for you lol. Have you found a source for a headliner on these beasts? My Mini is a Braunability Conversion Van(Side Ramp) but other then that we live with the same Mini. BTW, Will we see you at Carlisle this July? Stay Warm, Jer

Hi Jer, Currently the jury is still out on the water leaks, but I'm working on solving the problem. The leaks in the front may turn out to be more of an issue than the rear. When my friend first bought the Dodge, the carpet in the front was soaking wet and moldy. I cleaned out the cowl drain hoses and that certainly improved things, but I'm not sure if it solved them. While sitting outside, both the dodge and Chrysler occasionally have puddles of water up front near the kick panels. The crazy thing with both the front and rear water leaks is that it can be raining buckets and they will be dry as a bone inside, but a gentle rain can cause them to leak. We had light snow and 40 degree temps a few days ago and the Chrysler was leaking quite a bit in the back. My current leaks in the front could also be from having the cowl screens off. Rain in the right direction could go right into the air intake for the HVAC. One thing for sure that I can tell you is that with the carpets out I saw water running from the leak in the back of the van all the way to the front passenger side floor at the kick panel. These vans sit pretty high in the rear, so even on level ground there's enough rake for water to flow from the rear to the front. The floor of the Chrysler has rust stains to support the back to front theory.

I also came across a video on YouTube with a third theory, that the water in the front is coming in under the lower edge of the windshield. The guy pumped sealer under the front edge of the glass where it meets the cowl and that solved his leak. It's always possible that he was the only one with that issue though. Once I get the rear water leak solved for good, I'll keep an eye on the front carpet. If it still gets wet I will have to decide if I want to pull the windshield out or pull the dash. The glass is only $160 and the current trim around the glass isn't in the greatest shape, so I would probably do that first. Also, someone ruined the heater grid when they scraped off the inspection stickers some time ago, so that would be another reason to pull the glass.

If your cowl drains are constantly clogging, then you may need to pull the screen off and clean out the cowl tray. You may also want to pull off the drain tubes and just leave them disconnected. I can't see any real harm in doing this. I would check the carpet behind the rear wheel wells to see if that is getting wet too. Hopefully I will be solving the rear leak soon. I have the interior of the Chrysler completely out in the back and I've sat in there several times in the rain with my flashlight and mirror, looking up into the roof structure, and I couldn't see any signs of where the water is coming in at. All I see is it dripping out. There's four possibilities: the roof rack mounting screws, the hatch hinge bolts, the seam between the uniside and the roof, and the possibility that somehow the water is wicking up under the hatch weatherstrip.

You can have the headliner recovered by a local upholstery shop. The big decision is should you take it out yourself or have the shop do it? It's a pretty big project to take it out, and the lift may make it harder to do. The headliner backer is a bit flimsy and likes to buckle in the middle where the cutouts are for the rear assist handles. It's really a two person job to do it right without damaging the backer. Headliner replacement will be coming up soon in a future episode, so that may give you a better idea of the process.

All plans are to be at Carlisle this year. I really do need to get a room booked before it's too late. Hope to see you there!

Evidence of water on left floor of Chrysler. Same deal on the Dodge.

Water was running through this area on it's way to the front of the van from the leak in back.

Shouldn't be able to have a mess like this with the cowl screen in place, but fine debris can build up over time and clog the drain tubes.

Cowl leak theory says that drains get clogged and tray fills up with water and it spills into HVAC system through this air intake.

Here's where the water drips out of the roof in the rear on both sides. When the trim panel is in place, it runs down the panel and comes out on the floor behind the wheel well.

Three of the four possible leak spots: roof rack, tailgate hinge, uniside/roof seam.

Jeff

 

[bigmoparjeff]

Tonight's update:

Another trip to the local Dodge dealer and another $250 on the credit card. Luckily my buddy is parts manager, so I get everything at 10% over cost. Not a huge deal, since you can find most of this stuff on ebay for about the same price, sometimes even less, usually with free shipping.

Was planning on getting a Mopar battery but found out that they just switched back to using Exide as their supplier, so I got a Delco instead. Sadly, it's made in Korea, though I believe the Delcos used in GM vehicles are still made in the US.

Some of the parts I got are discontinued. Chrysler, and many other companies sell their old inventory to a company called Vintage Parts. You can go on their website and look up part numbers to see if they have what you need. Not sure is you can order directly from them, but your local dealer can.
Vintage Parts - Your Service Parts Inventory Partner

With the van sitting on it's wheels all the suspension pivot points got tightened, and then it got an alignment. I inherited this vintage Snap On alignment system around 2005 from the shop that I used to work for. They had a computerized set up and this one was just sitting around collecting dust. I've done a lot of FEA's with it going all the way back to 1989.

The separate stands work great in a small shop since you can stack them away in a corner when not in use.

It's probably craziness, but I had to go around and brush paint the rusty hardware and clips.

I also sprayed some shaker can clear on any new parts that were plated. Fender liners are in now too.

The correct rims were extricated from my friend's overstuffed storage unit. Whoever installed the tires never balanced them, but I'm sure he was charged for it.

Reunited with it's original rims. They had been put on a third van that my friend had, which was rear-ended and totaled shortly after new tires were installed.

I really like the look of the LH wheels, but they would need 1/4" to 3/8" spacers to clear the calipers in the front. The LH cars had oddball front calipers that permitted use of a wheel with unusual spacing. I have some washers on the studs here to space them out and it doesn't leave a whole lot of thread engagement for the wheel nuts.

Jeff

 

[bigmoparjeff]

Just remembered: Of course we needed all new OEM nuts too.

Cha-ching. $48 on ebay.

Jeff

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

Just remembered: Of course we needed all new OEM nuts too.

View attachment 350619

Cha-ching. $48 on ebay.

Jeff

LOL. I gave up on Mothers nutz(oops) years ago. When you've had the same set on for ? years. Reason I gave up on 'um'. Stock and in good shape they're 18MM. When they start taking on water between the steel nut and the S.S. cap the rust starts swelling the cap and they become 19MM. And when you loose the cap the steel now becomes 17MM. 5 sets of 4 Chromies from your local auto parts for the same $ as OEM Caps and you're good for the life of the car and I defy anyone to pickup on that slight difference. To continue on that section of the Mini ah bit. My Dodge Grand Caravan came with 5X114.3 steelys and plastic hubcaps. If you've ever lived or had to travel on gravel roads, You quickly learn that the survival rate of hub caps Plastic or S.S. is very short. I went on CARPART.COM( MY favorite Pick 'n Pull when all else fails for OEM Stuff)and started searching for 5X114.3X15 aluminum wheels and found '89-'90 Grand Caravan Snow Flakes that I liked real well and went searching for a set. I think I now have the only set of those 114.3 Snow Flakes in the entire country but my obsession was worth the journey. The fun part was that mother in her Wisdom? marketed those same Snow flakes on '88, '89, and '90 different FWD vehicles in 5X100X15 WTH? FYI Jeff, I'm flying into Harrisburg this year. With the help of friends here on FCBO, I should be on the Fair Grounds by 14:00 Thursday afternoon, all day Friday and Saturday and then back to Wilmington, N.C. Sunday morning. We should exchange cell #s and I'm comfortable with that. E-addresses too if you'd like. Good chat my new Friend. I look forward to many many more, Jer

 

[bigmoparjeff]

We arrive around noon and get set up on Thursday, though we usually leave early to get checked in at the hotel and grab dinner. Now that I've sold my Suburban, I guess it's possible that I'll be driving this van to Carlisle, unless I have the Chrysler on the road by then. My email is [email protected] if you want to shoot me your number.

I've had pretty good luck with the stainless capped nuts as long as I'm the only one taking the wheels on and off. Over tightening with the impact seems to be the main culprit for problems. We don't have quite the level of salt on the roads that you do up in MI to make corrosion a big issue with them.

Jeff

 

[bigmoparjeff]

Now that the mechanicals are under control, it's time to deal with the trashed interior. A while back I bought a complete interior to convert the Chrysler from leather to cloth, but decided to use it in the Dodge since the Chrysler is too rusty to bother making it real nice. The interior in the Chrysler will clean up, where the Dodge needs to be gutted like one of those house flipper shows working on some foreclosed ex-meth lab house.

We've got a combination of grime from my friend's ownership and cigarette burns from the woman who drove it previously.

My friend had a passion for discarded electronics, including old style big screen projection tv's and rack mount computer systems, so the plastic panels took a beating from hauling home all his found treasures. Don't know what happened to that seat belt.

Driver's seat is about the worst I've ever seen with cloth upholstery in one of these.

Pretty much every cup holder and storage pocket is filled with nastiness.

Can't blame anyone but time for it being due for a headliner.

Interior pretty much stripped out.

The dash is about the only part of the interior that's going to stay.

But we're going to have to make some improvements.

Jeff

 

[bigmoparjeff]

Can't have faded gauge needles crimping my style. Could the solution be found inside that box?

Ooooohhhh, pretty.

Much better!

We're dropping down a trim level, replacing the leather wheel with the standard issue plastic one.

I'll make up for that by upgrading to a Chrysler faux burl wood center control panel.

Got this out of the van that donated the front end sheet metal. Hopefully I'll get a little more time out of it than I usually do with Chrysler radios since it's been serviced already.

The headlamp switch was acting up, so I bought this one from Rock Auto. Never heard of WVE, but was happy to see NGK on the box when it arrived. Sadly it was meaningless. The switch is a piece of junk, even worse than the old one. No dash lights in the park lamp position, headlamps flicker on and off if you wiggle the knob a bit, and the driving lights don't work at all. I ended up taking the old switch apart and cleaning the contacts. Works perfectly now, and this junker is going back.

I had planned on replacing the outer belt mouldings/window felts on the front doors because they are getting stiff and the felt is wearing off. On most modern vehicles they just pop off, but these hook in down behind the glass and are a ***** to get off, so that's going to be a project for another day.

The clips holding the door panels on are ridiculous. They hold so tight that the door panel sometimes breaks before the clip comes out. I've got a color mismatch with my new Chrysler door panel, as the Chrysler vans had dark grey accents instead of black. That part of the panel is busted up from someone taking the window switches out before I got to it, so I may change it in the future, but it's a project to do, as it's heat welded onto the panel.

Jeff

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

Don't throw the old Center Control Panel away Jeff. The rheostat for the blower motor Iz molded in. If and when it dies you're looking at a whole different control panel unless you can figure out a way to dissemble that unit? Wanna talk about the dome lites in the information center just inside the windshield in the headliner, AAARRRGGGHHHH, Jer