Oil Extractor vs. Drain Plug

[Big_John]

I see this stuff and remember what my Dad told me about the garage at his uncles house. The garage was on the side of a hill and there was an area under the garage floor that you could walk under. He had a trap door in the floor so you could easily change the oil in his Packard.

 

[1970cat]

I see this stuff and remember what my Dad told me about the garage at his uncles house. The garage was on the side of a hill and there was an area under the garage floor that you could walk under. He had a trap door in the floor so you could easily change the oil in his Packard.

there is a building at the end of my road with a setup like that. it was a blacksmith shop. they assembled cars back when they came in a crate and it was a repair shop until the early sixties.

 

[CBODY67]

The Castrol Professional OE oil can be purchased from the dealer, as can the filter (and gasket/seals). Not really sure what the significant difference in the gold-bottle Castrol and the "Pro OE" version is? Possibly viscosity only? Audi and others use the Castrol Pro OE gold bottle oil, so it's not exclusive to Jag. BMW's OEM oil used to be Castrol, but is now Pennzoil (Royal Dutch Shell), if that matters.

If the car has the belly pan that must be removed to access the under-side of the engine (to et at the drain plug and filter, as the last-gen GTO has), that will explain the higher labor charge (with many dealers being close to $140.00/hr labor rate). So, to me, the bulk of the oil change charge is the labor due to the car's construction features, NOT specifically the cost of the oil and filter.

So, shop the other import brands which use Castrol Pro OE branded motor oil. See if their viscosity matches what you need and how much they'll sell it to you, over the counter, for. For our used car dept, we normally buy the OE-spec motor oil (MB, Audi, BMW, etc.), which are all syn oil, for less than we can buy similar oil from the local auto supply chains. Like about $8.00/qt.

The OTHER thing is to go into the motor oil websites and see which non-Castrol oil brands will meet the Jag oil approval spec. It could well be that better oils are available, but only research can verify that. Plus look at www.bobistheoilguy.com oil forums for "Virgin Oil Analysis" of Castrol Professional OE oils. Seems like the last stuff we got for a supercharged Jag was 0-20? It's my suspicion that all of the Castrol Pro OE oils are the same as the normal gold-bottle Castrol Edge oils, but I haven't proved that just yet. Research what that Jag oil spec means, too. Might be just the premium syn oil in the specified viscosity? To me, the premium syn orientation in the correct viscosity can be more important than the brand. Personally, I like Castrol oil, from my own experiences, but things have changed since then (1980s).

To me, a low-to-the-ground car with a top-side-accessible oil filter, would be a prime situation for a vacuum extractor oil remover. Just have a somewhat calibrated container the extracted oil would be deposited in, compared to the dip stick reading just before to the extraction, so you know you got most/all of it out.

Enjoy the Leaper!
CBODY67

 

[rexus31]

The Castrol Professional OE oil can be purchased from the dealer, as can the filter (and gasket/seals). Not really sure what the significant difference in the gold-bottle Castrol and the "Pro OE" version is? Possibly viscosity only? Audi and others use the Castrol Pro OE gold bottle oil, so it's not exclusive to Jag. BMW's OEM oil used to be Castrol, but is now Pennzoil (Royal Dutch Shell), if that matters.

If the car has the belly pan that must be removed to access the under-side of the engine (to et at the drain plug and filter, as the last-gen GTO has), that will explain the higher labor charge (with many dealers being close to $140.00/hr labor rate). So, to me, the bulk of the oil change charge is the labor due to the car's construction features, NOT specifically the cost of the oil and filter.

So, shop the other import brands which use Castrol Pro OE branded motor oil. See if their viscosity matches what you need and how much they'll sell it to you, over the counter, for. For our used car dept, we normally buy the OE-spec motor oil (MB, Audi, BMW, etc.), which are all syn oil, for less than we can buy similar oil from the local auto supply chains. Like about $8.00/qt.

The OTHER thing is to go into the motor oil websites and see which non-Castrol oil brands will meet the Jag oil approval spec. It could well be that better oils are available, but only research can verify that. Plus look at www.bobistheoilguy.com oil forums for "Virgin Oil Analysis" of Castrol Professional OE oils. Seems like the last stuff we got for a supercharged Jag was 0-20? It's my suspicion that all of the Castrol Pro OE oils are the same as the normal gold-bottle Castrol Edge oils, but I haven't proved that just yet. Research what that Jag oil spec means, too. Might be just the premium syn oil in the specified viscosity? To me, the premium syn orientation in the correct viscosity can be more important than the brand. Personally, I like Castrol oil, from my own experiences, but things have changed since then (1980s).

To me, a low-to-the-ground car with a top-side-accessible oil filter, would be a prime situation for a vacuum extractor oil remover. Just have a somewhat calibrated container the extracted oil would be deposited in, compared to the dip stick reading just before to the extraction, so you know you got most/all of it out.

Enjoy the Leaper!
CBODY67

From the research I've done the Castrol Edge Professional E meets JLR's spec as evidenced by the STJLR.51.5122 compliance printed on the bottle. There are a few others that meet the spec and have the same compliance; Liquid Moly being one of them. From what I can tell, the high titanium content is what they are after and you are correct, 0W-20. The labor (1 hour) and the parts on the dealer invoice was about 50/50 with the total amount being $230 before tax, etc.

Absolutely love the car; a ton of fun to drive. Every time I hear the exhaust note at mid to high RPM's with it's snap, crackle and pops on decell, it puts a smile on my face. Especially in underpasses and tunnels.

 

[rexus31]

...to et at the drain plug and filter, as the last-gen GTO has)

It's funny you mentioned the last-gen GTO. I owned a 2005 brand new; my first brand new car and the fastest car I've ever owned. At 400hp/400lb ft it could really move. Anyway, I remember oil changes being $90 which I thought was expensive.

I always thought this was a cool pic taken for an Australian auto mag from my '64 GTO.

 

[stubs300]

The independent guy quoted $140 but he doesn't use JLR spec oil which is a deal breaker due to warranty restraints. If I brought my own oil, filer, gasket and drain plug, I would have saved $20 as he sill was going to charge $95 in labor. I'll shop around to see what oil some of the other indy shops us. One I called was more expensive than the two least expensive dealers at $320. Heres the quotes I got from the dealers I shopped:

Pasadena Jaguar: $240
Anaheim Jaguar: $386
Newport Beach Jaguar: $283
Galpin Jaguar: $325
Cerritos Jaguar: $428

Man, almost a $200 swing in prices, that's crazy!

By comparison, I paid $40 at the dealer for oil changes on my '15 Dodge Charger R/T Road and Track.

 

[rexus31]

Man, almost a $200 swing in prices, that's crazy!

I know! I don't get it.

 

[cantflip]

The independent guy quoted $140 but he doesn't use JLR spec oil which is a deal breaker due to warranty restraints. If I brought my own oil, filer, gasket and drain plug, I would have saved $20 as he sill was going to charge $95 in labor. I'll shop around to see what oil some of the other indy shops us. One I called was more expensive than the two least expensive dealers at $320. Heres the quotes I got from the dealers I shopped:

Pasadena Jaguar: $240
Anaheim Jaguar: $386
Newport Beach Jaguar: $283
Galpin Jaguar: $325
Cerritos Jaguar: $428

By comparison, I paid $40 at the dealer for oil changes on my '15 Dodge Charger R/T Road and Track.

I'm late to the party, as usual. IDK if I'm right, but if you read the owners manual and identify everything that is recommended to be done at oil change intervals... you may be able to figure out the theory behind those charges.

Many cars have other services that "should" be done at the oil change intervals. Stuff like cabin air filters, but other stuff you'd think is included like topping the washer bottle. There is a slim possibility you are getting more service at the dealer, but it is a very slim possibility. I worked on some cars that had a lot of services built into those intervals, including brake fluid replacement. I also saw dealerships cut labor to make their services more "competitive"... one model the brake flush went from .5 hours to .1 hours. Cars started getting the master cylinder sucked dry and refilled instead. MB and BMW had expensive washer fluid concentrates, and customers complained when you put the bottle in the trunk if they didn't need it... bottle would leak. After a while you learned you didn't get "dinged" on customer satisfaction if you premixed and topped off, and just held onto the leftovers. I have enough washer solvent concentrate to last a lifetime.

On some models the dipstick tube almost reached the bottom of the pan, it did almost as good as the drain plug. We had a factory sucker tool that worked of compressed air (venturi effect) and I'd use it when I didn't have a free lift. I bought a used aftermarket one a few years ago, and it is nice to have when you're dropping a transmission pan without a drain plug (can't bring myself to skip a new filter though).

My best advise, the hand pump versions will suck to use pretty fast, but can do the job. I would recommend if you do it this way, don't do it every oil change... pull the plug every second or third change just to make sure you've flushed out what you can. Also, if for some reason your refill quantity is less using the sucker... don't do it. That would indicate that lots of old oil has been left behind and your pan/dipstick tube aren't compatible with this method.

 

[commando1]

Thanks for all the input.

The reason I asked this question is oil extractors are widely used in the DIY segment of the Jaguar F-Type community. With these cars being low to the ground and fitted with a skid plate, the preferred DIY oil change method is from the top via an extractor. Why DIY you ask? I just got back from Rusnak Jaguar Pasadena (selling dealer) who charged $243.35 for the oil change. Granted, it calls for 12 months or 15K miles (12 months for me; only 5,900 miles since I bought it) but it's still overpriced, IMO. I thought of taking it to an Independent Jaguar Shop but they do not use Jaguar-Land Rover spec oil (STJLR.51.5122 compliant) and with the car covered under CPO warranty for the term of my lease, I did not want to risk any potential denied engine warranty claims because I didn't use oil that met JLR spec. There are dyes in spec oil that are identified under blacklight. The dealer uses Castrol Edge Professional E which comes in at around $11 per quart. I could have sourced my own oil and filer online and taken it to the indy shop but it would have only saved me $30-$40 which was not worth my hassle. I considered investing in an oil extractor for future DIY oil changes if I was able to use it on my classics which would kill two birds with one stone: save me money on oil changes for the Jag and save the hassle of jacking up the Chrysler and GTO, getting out the jack stands and crawling under them. Getting one just for the Jag doesn't make sense as I would only use it two more times since it is a 3 year lease. I don't for see keeping the car long term as I'll most likely want something newer come 2021. Seeing as extracting the oil seems to be unpopular with classic cars I'll probably not invest in one. I'll bite the bullet two more times. In retrospect, I should have held out for a 2016 or newer F-Type (mine is 2015) as those come with complimentary scheduled maintenance. Live and learn.

And there is my biggest problem, dealer service on high end foreign cars.
I've heard of 12-hundred "oil changes" on some Mercedes and others.
You go WTF??? and if you read the fine print on these recommend service intervals, you see a 1,000 point check list and closer examination of the check list you see 997 items that start with: "inspect...".
1,150 dollars for visual "inspections"?? Yah right. As if....
Then they have the ballz to charge you 15 bucks for "Used rags disposal fee".

I probably have seen a dozens of drop dead sexy fer-ner cars that could have got me to open my wallet but the thought of 3,000 dollar timing belt changes has me thinking straight again.

EDIT: Had I read the entire thread first, I would have seen Jeff already writing this BS stuff.

 

[cantflip]

And there is my biggest problem, dealer service on high end foreign cars.
I've heard of 12-hundred "oil changes" on some Mercedes and others.
You go WTF??? and if you read the fine print on these recommend service intervals, you see a 1,000 point check list and closer examination of the check list you see 997 items that start with: "inspect...".
1,150 dollars for visual "inspections"?? Yah right. As if....
Then they have the ballz to charge you 15 bucks for "Used rags disposal fee".

I probably have seen a dozens of drop dead sexy fer-ner cars that could have got me to open my wallet but the thought of 3,000 dollar timing belt changes has me thinking straight again.

EDIT: Had I read the entire thread first, I would have seen Jeff already writing this BS stuff.

FWIW, back when 30k or 60k services got you new spark plugs and maybe a timing belt, they were usually gravy services for the tech and still gave the customer some value.

100k+ spark plug intervals, no timing to set, electronic FI and long life fluids, including oil (MB was at 13k intervals when I left) turned the services into glorified oil changes... at premium prices.

If the Owners Manuel calls for door latches/hinges to be lubed, there is an area that is easy to check, but its also a place where customer complaints come from... so the excess lube should have been wiped off to prevent a suede purse from getting ruined when dragged across the latch (personal experience). If they skip the services specified, you have an argument to make a PITA of yourself... I wouldn't expect too much satisfaction to come from it though.