Big john, I’ve no trouble with you either. Your post appeared about the same as mine an everyone hated mine version. That’s all I’m saying. I like what you said, it’s What I think Keep the stock stuff. Forget the aftermarket.
Opinion to rebuild carb or buy new, have a intake manifold leak to
- Thread starter Biggredd2069
- Start date
Big john, I’ve no trouble with you either. Your post appeared about the same as mine an everyone hated mine version. That’s all I’m saying. I like what you said, it’s What I think Keep the stock stuff. Forget the aftermarket.
I have ran Eddie 1406's on numerous big block stock engines. Right out of the box and most of the time not adjusting anything but the idle. Never had a problem with a 1406.
If someone wants to keep fiddling with a stock TQ or a Carter carb ....go for it. I myself wouldn't waste my time with a stock carb ever again.
I have a high compression way more than stock engine now that I run a Holley Quick Fuel 750 carb that starts right up in 28° ambient temps with no problem.
If someone wants to keep fiddling with a stock TQ or a Carter carb ....go for it. I myself wouldn't waste my time with a stock carb ever again.
I have a high compression way more than stock engine now that I run a Holley Quick Fuel 750 carb that starts right up in 28° ambient temps with no problem.
You might want to check the position of the accelerator pump linkage before tearing into the carb. On the factory AVS there are three holes in the linkage arm, the linkage rod should be in the center hole. Today's moonshine blend gasoline is very hard on accelerator pumps, they will often go bad just sitting over winter because the fuel blend produces corrosive by products that eat up the piston seal on the accelerator pump. If you decide to rebuild the stock carb, be sure to install new floats while you have it apart. A fuel stabilizer such as "Stabil" will slow down the fuel breakdown while the car is sitting. I usually put Real Gas in my cars to winter them and have found that prevents most of the fuel breakdown issues with carbs, fuel pumps and gas tanks.
Dave
Dave
I suspect there might be a few things at play with the existing set-up.
1 -- NOT every car responds well to WOT off-idle. Some do, some don't. IF it doesn't, doing what you describe, it's probably due to too much air all of a sudden. On a 4bbl, that would mean the secondaries are opening when they shouldn't. The stock AFB on my '67 Newport was a full-manual set-up with no offset-weighted velocity valves in the secondaries. Probably closer to 550cfm than 600? After I smoothed and dressed-down the casting flash in the venturis, THEN I got a slight bog with WOT off-idle. So, sounds like too much air too son. Which, means the secondaries need to be closed until needed. Might be a simple adjustment on the carb to fix that!
Hint -- if it works well at a part-throttle punch, then use THAT method for better off-idle acceleration until the car is about 1/2 way through 1st gear to use WOT.
2 -- What gives you the suspicion that there is an intake manifold gasket leak? Those metal gaskets just don't leak, unless they rust, which is not common, from my observations. I'd suggest that you check the intake manifold bolt torques, starting with the center bolts and work outward, in sequence.
3 -- The Edelbrock Torker 383 on my '67 Newport worked just fine with the factory a/c brackets. The bolt flange thickness of the Edelbrock is much the same as that of the stock cast iron in take in that area. Why would Edelbrock (or others) design an intake manifold that would NOT accept the factory a/c brackets??? If the gasket flange in that area is a bit thin, then a few flat washers would probably shim it enough for everything to work together.
4 -- Many in hear have repeatedly claimed that the Performer AFB and the Thunder Series AVS are "lean" calibrated. "Lean" compared to what? Reason I ask is that when I compared metering specs of these carbs with the OEM similar carbs, the primary jetting didn't appear to be "lean" per se. OR are they "leaner" for better fuel economy? But what about WOT calibrations on the primaries and the secondary jets? Or is it a primary power valve spring issue? Or does anything leaner than 12.7 a/f ratio classify as "lean", when stoich is 14.7 a/f ratio? OR were these Edelbrock carbs going on "enhanced" motors rather than more-stock-oriented motors? Just some curiosity areas . . . no more, no less.
5 -- Certainly, ANY aftermarket "universal fit" carb will be more oriented toward Chevy motors. But that's more about the throttle/kickdown linkage than metering, typically. Being "universal", that means "will work" fuel calibrations that might be a bit lean for the larger ones, but a bit richer for the smaller ones. Yet Holley states that if the cfm is right for the motor, the universal jetting (like using "65" primary-side main jets in a 4160 will work fine with a 352 Ford FE (for which the 1850 was OEM spec) as well as the Lincoln 430 (same carb number as for the 352). k Which can tend to take some credibility that bigger motors need bigger main jets, at least in stock tune. The Holley Variable Spec Manual lists ONE 0-1850 for that wide range of cid engines. BUT as these were vacuum secondary carbs, then only the main side would be working all the time, with the engine size determining if the secondaries opened all of the way or not.
6 -- If the stated metering in the newer carbs is leaner, but with apparently richer jetting, then the other place that is a metering calibration is the air bleeds on the venture cluster. One pair idle and one pair for "main system". Plus the size of the hole in the throttle body the idle needles modulate (as to idle mixture control).
7 -- I know that Summit puts their phone reps thorough a good bit of schooling when they hire them. Jegs and others might do similar. BUT the key question I'd have is "Are they speaking from experience OR saying what's in the respective company literature. Kind of like when I was running, I found a running shoe store where they employees normally ran 10Ks and such. They could tell me, from their experience and the experiences of others they knew, how the guts of a shoe's platform would work. Rather than telling me what the factory sales rep had told them, as the "mall store" shoe stores' employees told me. There's a difference there! Also . . . you can probably find the same information on the websites for Edelbrock (matching carb, intake, etc.), for what it's worth. AND, the person you spoke with might be gone next week, which can be a part of the mix, too, by observation. In other words, do your own research in the various websites, just so you know what's going on. To get a feel for what's involved before you proceed.
8 -- STOCK Chrysler engine combinations were usually pretty-well engineered and "combinationed" from the start. Combinationed as to cam, carb, torque converter, etc. Unlike Brand X engines which needed to have headers and dual exhaust to run with a similar-sized STOCK Chrysler engine, by observation. Yet we always want "something better", which is "normal". Although you have an altered-normal engine situation, make sure that it's running as good as it can BEFORE you start changing stuff! Get that baseline than THEN investigate possible changes.
Carb model? Carb number? Distributor number? Intake manifold casting number?
Respectfully,
CBODY67
1 -- NOT every car responds well to WOT off-idle. Some do, some don't. IF it doesn't, doing what you describe, it's probably due to too much air all of a sudden. On a 4bbl, that would mean the secondaries are opening when they shouldn't. The stock AFB on my '67 Newport was a full-manual set-up with no offset-weighted velocity valves in the secondaries. Probably closer to 550cfm than 600? After I smoothed and dressed-down the casting flash in the venturis, THEN I got a slight bog with WOT off-idle. So, sounds like too much air too son. Which, means the secondaries need to be closed until needed. Might be a simple adjustment on the carb to fix that!
Hint -- if it works well at a part-throttle punch, then use THAT method for better off-idle acceleration until the car is about 1/2 way through 1st gear to use WOT.
2 -- What gives you the suspicion that there is an intake manifold gasket leak? Those metal gaskets just don't leak, unless they rust, which is not common, from my observations. I'd suggest that you check the intake manifold bolt torques, starting with the center bolts and work outward, in sequence.
3 -- The Edelbrock Torker 383 on my '67 Newport worked just fine with the factory a/c brackets. The bolt flange thickness of the Edelbrock is much the same as that of the stock cast iron in take in that area. Why would Edelbrock (or others) design an intake manifold that would NOT accept the factory a/c brackets??? If the gasket flange in that area is a bit thin, then a few flat washers would probably shim it enough for everything to work together.
4 -- Many in hear have repeatedly claimed that the Performer AFB and the Thunder Series AVS are "lean" calibrated. "Lean" compared to what? Reason I ask is that when I compared metering specs of these carbs with the OEM similar carbs, the primary jetting didn't appear to be "lean" per se. OR are they "leaner" for better fuel economy? But what about WOT calibrations on the primaries and the secondary jets? Or is it a primary power valve spring issue? Or does anything leaner than 12.7 a/f ratio classify as "lean", when stoich is 14.7 a/f ratio? OR were these Edelbrock carbs going on "enhanced" motors rather than more-stock-oriented motors? Just some curiosity areas . . . no more, no less.
5 -- Certainly, ANY aftermarket "universal fit" carb will be more oriented toward Chevy motors. But that's more about the throttle/kickdown linkage than metering, typically. Being "universal", that means "will work" fuel calibrations that might be a bit lean for the larger ones, but a bit richer for the smaller ones. Yet Holley states that if the cfm is right for the motor, the universal jetting (like using "65" primary-side main jets in a 4160 will work fine with a 352 Ford FE (for which the 1850 was OEM spec) as well as the Lincoln 430 (same carb number as for the 352). k Which can tend to take some credibility that bigger motors need bigger main jets, at least in stock tune. The Holley Variable Spec Manual lists ONE 0-1850 for that wide range of cid engines. BUT as these were vacuum secondary carbs, then only the main side would be working all the time, with the engine size determining if the secondaries opened all of the way or not.
6 -- If the stated metering in the newer carbs is leaner, but with apparently richer jetting, then the other place that is a metering calibration is the air bleeds on the venture cluster. One pair idle and one pair for "main system". Plus the size of the hole in the throttle body the idle needles modulate (as to idle mixture control).
7 -- I know that Summit puts their phone reps thorough a good bit of schooling when they hire them. Jegs and others might do similar. BUT the key question I'd have is "Are they speaking from experience OR saying what's in the respective company literature. Kind of like when I was running, I found a running shoe store where they employees normally ran 10Ks and such. They could tell me, from their experience and the experiences of others they knew, how the guts of a shoe's platform would work. Rather than telling me what the factory sales rep had told them, as the "mall store" shoe stores' employees told me. There's a difference there! Also . . . you can probably find the same information on the websites for Edelbrock (matching carb, intake, etc.), for what it's worth. AND, the person you spoke with might be gone next week, which can be a part of the mix, too, by observation. In other words, do your own research in the various websites, just so you know what's going on. To get a feel for what's involved before you proceed.
8 -- STOCK Chrysler engine combinations were usually pretty-well engineered and "combinationed" from the start. Combinationed as to cam, carb, torque converter, etc. Unlike Brand X engines which needed to have headers and dual exhaust to run with a similar-sized STOCK Chrysler engine, by observation. Yet we always want "something better", which is "normal". Although you have an altered-normal engine situation, make sure that it's running as good as it can BEFORE you start changing stuff! Get that baseline than THEN investigate possible changes.
Carb model? Carb number? Distributor number? Intake manifold casting number?
Respectfully,
CBODY67
PontiacJim
Member
If you want to go bigger with a carb, then simply do a little research. You will find CFM calculators that will get you into the ball park as to the size of carb you need. However, these can be generalities. Just because the "formula" says a 500CFM carb is what you need, does not mean a 750CFM carb will not work.
Many things come into play. Cubic inches, cam specs, engine RPM, etc.. I am not sure why a 750CFM Edelbrock carb is too big for a 383 when a 750CFM GM Q-jet was used on the 360? I guess the dual 750 AFB's I had on a past 409CI was way too much and should have never worked - guess my engine didn't know about it so it went along with it. How about the Six Pack on the 340CI - now there is way too much CFM's from the factory. What were those Chrysler engineers thinking?
A smaller carb will provide snappier throttle response in most situations, but peter out and go flat at some RPM because the air flow has maxed out. Engines with bigger carb/CFM's typically turn higher RPM's and need more air, but can sacrifice low speed throttle response which the average car/driver uses more often than high RPM's. So this is where parts need to be matched - engine cubic inches, RPM range, and required CFM's.
So here is my thinking. First, choose a carb with vacuum secondaries for the street. The carb will only use what it needs, so if you over do it a bit, the secondaries will open only as needed at the RPM it is required.
You may have to calibrate the carb to dial it in for your application if you choose to or because it does not seem to perform as you feel it should - sluggish, stalls, has a flat spot, strong smell of unburned fumes out the exhaust pipe, etc. - things that are somewhat obvious. The Edlebrock 1406 is the leaner fuel/economy version for stock type engine versus a richer carb for modified/muscle cars. They also use a different Venturii Booster for economy according to their FAQ section. From their FAQ section: "The 1406 is calibrated lean for fuel economy. In some applications, re-calibration of the carburetor may be necessary for optimum performance. See page 22-23 in the supplied carburetor owners manual. Step # 23 on the calibration reference chart is a good starting point for enriching the air/ fuel mixture." So whichever carb you select, it has different Venturii Boosters, jets, metering rods, step-up springs, etc. - and is tuned for said application.
Personally, I think I would pass on the 1406 only because if I added any performance goodies to my engine, it's design as a "lean" mileage carb could cause performance to suffer in the future.
You can get a tuning kit that offers an assortment of jets, metering rods, step-up springs, etc. to dial in the carb IF needed. If you tinker with cars/carbs, then you can do this yourself. If you are not the mechanical type and are more of just a driver, then you would be best to have the stock carb rebuilt by an expert and let it go at that. But, for me, the fun is working with "things" on the car and the carb can be one of those things. The AFB is pretty much straight forward to work on and easy to make adjustments, and "two-piece body that resists warping and is compatible with gasohol and blended fuels."
Read this guide to familiarize your self with the carb and those things you can play with IF you feel you need to make adjustment - https://edelbrock-instructions-v1.s3.amazonaws.com/edelbrock/carb-tuning-guide.pdf and this one https://edelbrock-instructions-v1.s3.amazonaws.com/edelbrock/1406.pdf
I would also read the FAQ section as there is a lot of info in there that can be helpful.
If you need adapters to make the carb work, which seems to be the case, here is a listing with pics- Edelbrock.com: New Carburetors - Quadrajet Rebuild Kit Jet Spacer Hose Pump
The Edelbrock 1405 600CFM appears to be the performance version - and what I might select if going with a 600 CFM carb. It says this is a manual choke and I am not familiar enough with Mopars to know if this is a problem? You can add an electric choke if needed.
Looking at the Edelbrock AVS2 in 650CFM looks interesting. You may want to check those carbs out. The new designed boosters look to better help fuel atomization and the 650CFM would be in range for your engine.
On the intake, the thing to look for seems to be the lugs/bolt holes for AC. If you plan on pulling off the compressor, then it should not be a problem. You want a dual plane intake vs a single plane intake.
Several posts have brought up the problem of underhood clearances with some intake choices. They can be remedied, but be aware of this.
Read carefully what size of intake runners you are getting. Some of the intakes actually have a smaller runner size by design to increase air velocity speed which can provide better throttle response. But like too small a carb, it can choke down an engine and will hit a wall and go flat on power at "X" RPM's.
Some intakes can be an improvement over stock, but how much? If the stock intake has an RPM rating of idle to 5,200 RPM's, what good is an intake that has an RPM rating of 2,500 to 6,500 if you engine won't ever see 6,500 RPM's AND you lose bottom end acceleration to boot? If you are handy with a die grinder and carbide cutter, you can enhance the factory manifold by cleaning up any casting flash, irregular bumps, and smoothing the intake runners up in general. You can also equalize the intake ports and square them up so they all match, but don't open them up larger than the head inlets as a mismatch can cause turbulence - unless you port both the intake ports and head ports to a match your intake gasket.
Intake choice, like carb choice, is often a matter of opinion and what works for one combination may or may not work for yours. Find engine combinations like ours from other Mopar sites and try to boil it down to a combination you can use.
Many things come into play. Cubic inches, cam specs, engine RPM, etc.. I am not sure why a 750CFM Edelbrock carb is too big for a 383 when a 750CFM GM Q-jet was used on the 360? I guess the dual 750 AFB's I had on a past 409CI was way too much and should have never worked - guess my engine didn't know about it so it went along with it. How about the Six Pack on the 340CI - now there is way too much CFM's from the factory. What were those Chrysler engineers thinking?
A smaller carb will provide snappier throttle response in most situations, but peter out and go flat at some RPM because the air flow has maxed out. Engines with bigger carb/CFM's typically turn higher RPM's and need more air, but can sacrifice low speed throttle response which the average car/driver uses more often than high RPM's. So this is where parts need to be matched - engine cubic inches, RPM range, and required CFM's.
So here is my thinking. First, choose a carb with vacuum secondaries for the street. The carb will only use what it needs, so if you over do it a bit, the secondaries will open only as needed at the RPM it is required.
You may have to calibrate the carb to dial it in for your application if you choose to or because it does not seem to perform as you feel it should - sluggish, stalls, has a flat spot, strong smell of unburned fumes out the exhaust pipe, etc. - things that are somewhat obvious. The Edlebrock 1406 is the leaner fuel/economy version for stock type engine versus a richer carb for modified/muscle cars. They also use a different Venturii Booster for economy according to their FAQ section. From their FAQ section: "The 1406 is calibrated lean for fuel economy. In some applications, re-calibration of the carburetor may be necessary for optimum performance. See page 22-23 in the supplied carburetor owners manual. Step # 23 on the calibration reference chart is a good starting point for enriching the air/ fuel mixture." So whichever carb you select, it has different Venturii Boosters, jets, metering rods, step-up springs, etc. - and is tuned for said application.
Personally, I think I would pass on the 1406 only because if I added any performance goodies to my engine, it's design as a "lean" mileage carb could cause performance to suffer in the future.
You can get a tuning kit that offers an assortment of jets, metering rods, step-up springs, etc. to dial in the carb IF needed. If you tinker with cars/carbs, then you can do this yourself. If you are not the mechanical type and are more of just a driver, then you would be best to have the stock carb rebuilt by an expert and let it go at that. But, for me, the fun is working with "things" on the car and the carb can be one of those things. The AFB is pretty much straight forward to work on and easy to make adjustments, and "two-piece body that resists warping and is compatible with gasohol and blended fuels."
Read this guide to familiarize your self with the carb and those things you can play with IF you feel you need to make adjustment - https://edelbrock-instructions-v1.s3.amazonaws.com/edelbrock/carb-tuning-guide.pdf and this one https://edelbrock-instructions-v1.s3.amazonaws.com/edelbrock/1406.pdf
I would also read the FAQ section as there is a lot of info in there that can be helpful.
If you need adapters to make the carb work, which seems to be the case, here is a listing with pics- Edelbrock.com: New Carburetors - Quadrajet Rebuild Kit Jet Spacer Hose Pump
The Edelbrock 1405 600CFM appears to be the performance version - and what I might select if going with a 600 CFM carb. It says this is a manual choke and I am not familiar enough with Mopars to know if this is a problem? You can add an electric choke if needed.
Looking at the Edelbrock AVS2 in 650CFM looks interesting. You may want to check those carbs out. The new designed boosters look to better help fuel atomization and the 650CFM would be in range for your engine.
On the intake, the thing to look for seems to be the lugs/bolt holes for AC. If you plan on pulling off the compressor, then it should not be a problem. You want a dual plane intake vs a single plane intake.
Several posts have brought up the problem of underhood clearances with some intake choices. They can be remedied, but be aware of this.
Read carefully what size of intake runners you are getting. Some of the intakes actually have a smaller runner size by design to increase air velocity speed which can provide better throttle response. But like too small a carb, it can choke down an engine and will hit a wall and go flat on power at "X" RPM's.
Some intakes can be an improvement over stock, but how much? If the stock intake has an RPM rating of idle to 5,200 RPM's, what good is an intake that has an RPM rating of 2,500 to 6,500 if you engine won't ever see 6,500 RPM's AND you lose bottom end acceleration to boot? If you are handy with a die grinder and carbide cutter, you can enhance the factory manifold by cleaning up any casting flash, irregular bumps, and smoothing the intake runners up in general. You can also equalize the intake ports and square them up so they all match, but don't open them up larger than the head inlets as a mismatch can cause turbulence - unless you port both the intake ports and head ports to a match your intake gasket.
Intake choice, like carb choice, is often a matter of opinion and what works for one combination may or may not work for yours. Find engine combinations like ours from other Mopar sites and try to boil it down to a combination you can use.
When the first Edelbrock AFB came out, a friend got one and I asked to copy the instruction manual that came with it. Something like 50 pages? Much of it seemed to mirror what I'd previously read in the S-A Designs book on Rochester carbs, the QJ in particular, for better performance. Which involved using "metering area" rather than just jet/rod diameters, then road-testing over a consistent route with a vacuum gauge and stop watch, to see what performed the best. Quite involved, too much, for some, I suspect.
The beauty of the Edelbrock AFB/AVS, and similar Carter 4bbls, is that they are easy to re-meter the primary side with different metering rods, easily accessible from the top of the carb. NOTHING to really take apart, unlike the Rochester QJ.
On the stock muscle car engines that seemed to be over-carbureted, starting with the Camaro Z/28 302 and its 780cfm carb. Certainly, there was too much carb there, BUT in those classes, they had to use the OEM carb on top of an engine that had seen some internal upgrades. So the supplied OEM carb had to be big enough to support those things, to be legal for the particular situation.
By the early-mid '80s, many of the prior 750cfm QJs had covertly become 650cfm carbs. The "limiting tang" on their air valve had been increased in height, so the secondary air valve didn't open as far as it originally did. The Rochester carb book illustrates that. Easy to fix, too, if desired.
Generally, a dual-plane intake will work best on a moderate street engine. There can be larger variations (cyl-to-cyl) in mixture/air flow distribution, but similar things can result in single-plane intakes, too, unless they've been "fixed" per the Mopar Perf Race Manual directions.
In any engine combination, there will and should be some limiting factors to ultimate power production. On a street car, in stock form, it can be the exhaust system and manifolds. On a hot rod engine, it can be the cylinder heads' port sizes. Everything's a compromise in one way or another. Sometimes, longer camshaft durations and higher lift can compensate for air flow through an engine with valve size/port configuration issues.
Then let's say you have the engine "guts" capable of 6500rpm, but you reasonably know that your "normal use" will only see 5500rpm max (like WOT for a "two-lane blacktop" passing situation), so rather than a 750cfm carb, you opt for a well-calibrated 650cfm carb that will work better in general driving situations rather than JUST at WOT, which is seen or can be used rarely, at best. So you use the smaller carb for a bit of "longevity" insurance, of sorts, if that really matters. With the ultimate rpm limited in real-world use, then you might consider downsizing the cam a bit for better mid-range rpm torque, which might not need quite so deep of a rear axle ratio for good performance. One thing can lead to another . . . all a part of the combination game to achieve what's desired.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
The beauty of the Edelbrock AFB/AVS, and similar Carter 4bbls, is that they are easy to re-meter the primary side with different metering rods, easily accessible from the top of the carb. NOTHING to really take apart, unlike the Rochester QJ.
On the stock muscle car engines that seemed to be over-carbureted, starting with the Camaro Z/28 302 and its 780cfm carb. Certainly, there was too much carb there, BUT in those classes, they had to use the OEM carb on top of an engine that had seen some internal upgrades. So the supplied OEM carb had to be big enough to support those things, to be legal for the particular situation.
By the early-mid '80s, many of the prior 750cfm QJs had covertly become 650cfm carbs. The "limiting tang" on their air valve had been increased in height, so the secondary air valve didn't open as far as it originally did. The Rochester carb book illustrates that. Easy to fix, too, if desired.
Generally, a dual-plane intake will work best on a moderate street engine. There can be larger variations (cyl-to-cyl) in mixture/air flow distribution, but similar things can result in single-plane intakes, too, unless they've been "fixed" per the Mopar Perf Race Manual directions.
In any engine combination, there will and should be some limiting factors to ultimate power production. On a street car, in stock form, it can be the exhaust system and manifolds. On a hot rod engine, it can be the cylinder heads' port sizes. Everything's a compromise in one way or another. Sometimes, longer camshaft durations and higher lift can compensate for air flow through an engine with valve size/port configuration issues.
Then let's say you have the engine "guts" capable of 6500rpm, but you reasonably know that your "normal use" will only see 5500rpm max (like WOT for a "two-lane blacktop" passing situation), so rather than a 750cfm carb, you opt for a well-calibrated 650cfm carb that will work better in general driving situations rather than JUST at WOT, which is seen or can be used rarely, at best. So you use the smaller carb for a bit of "longevity" insurance, of sorts, if that really matters. With the ultimate rpm limited in real-world use, then you might consider downsizing the cam a bit for better mid-range rpm torque, which might not need quite so deep of a rear axle ratio for good performance. One thing can lead to another . . . all a part of the combination game to achieve what's desired.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
PurpleBeeper
Member
Yes..... I don't know why so many people disagreed with 413, but I agree with him to rebuild the original carburetor & keep the original intake manifold. All the issues he brought up are correct.
Now....if you want to drag race, that's a different story. I personally have spent thousands of dollars and countless hours to modify something to get 10-20 horsepower. It's a pain in the butt, but "speed ain't cheap".
If you changed your intake/carburetor, I'd ballpark about $600-$700, 15-20 horsepower improvement and 30 hrs "shop time" to modify your car to work with the new parts....for what it's worth. And TRUST ME....it is a vicious circle....now you need headers....and gears.....and a stall converter....and trans brake....and why not nitrous....now hardened axles....slicks.....cal trac suspension....MSD ignition....roll cage.....
And somewhere along the line, it stops becoming fun. AMHIK
75LandYacht
Yank Tank
Biggredd, need to hijack your thread for a moment, I don’t think the questions I need answers to needs its own thread.
Since the weather warmed up into the high 50s yesterday, I was finally able to get under the hood of my 77 and get it running after the fiasco of it being delivered from Vegas and not being able to start it off the transport truck. I replaced the starter and the fuel pump, was able to get it started, but will only run on wide-open throttle. It won’t idle. Discovered quite a few vacuum leaks, addressed those, runs a bit better just off WOT, but still won’t idle without help of feathering the throttle, and even when it’s running, it’s running rough..
To update the story for those that haven’t read the thread regarding the car, I had a brand new Holley 650 installed before the car left Vegas because the other carburetor was junk and they wouldn’t have been able to drive it on to the transport. So I have videos of the car running and driving prior to its delivery to me. The video isn’t the best of quality so I can’t confirm how well or bad it was running before I got it. So as stated, installed new starter and fuel pump yesterday, the car will start but only after pouring raw gas down the throat, My guess is The carburetor can overcompensate for the vacuum leak, Once it starts I have to constantly feather the throttle to keep it going and I won’t idle on its own, my question is, I think I have a major vacuum leak which is causing my issue.
After feathering the throttle for 10 or 15 minutes to keep it running I finally just let it shut itself off, after it stopped I hear a sucky noise coming from this part of the manifold, circled in red.
I noticed a little bit of what appears to be steam not smoke or burn off coming from the section between the intake in the head, circled in red, and there appears to be a port of some sort there that I’m not familiar with. Does anybody know what that is? It could be the intake gasket failed in that area. What I think I may do just for preventative measures, is remove the intake, ill blast / clean and paint it, reinstall with new gaskets and windage tray. I’d like everyone’s thoughts on this please before I start turning wrenches.
Thx
Since the weather warmed up into the high 50s yesterday, I was finally able to get under the hood of my 77 and get it running after the fiasco of it being delivered from Vegas and not being able to start it off the transport truck. I replaced the starter and the fuel pump, was able to get it started, but will only run on wide-open throttle. It won’t idle. Discovered quite a few vacuum leaks, addressed those, runs a bit better just off WOT, but still won’t idle without help of feathering the throttle, and even when it’s running, it’s running rough..
To update the story for those that haven’t read the thread regarding the car, I had a brand new Holley 650 installed before the car left Vegas because the other carburetor was junk and they wouldn’t have been able to drive it on to the transport. So I have videos of the car running and driving prior to its delivery to me. The video isn’t the best of quality so I can’t confirm how well or bad it was running before I got it. So as stated, installed new starter and fuel pump yesterday, the car will start but only after pouring raw gas down the throat, My guess is The carburetor can overcompensate for the vacuum leak, Once it starts I have to constantly feather the throttle to keep it going and I won’t idle on its own, my question is, I think I have a major vacuum leak which is causing my issue.
After feathering the throttle for 10 or 15 minutes to keep it running I finally just let it shut itself off, after it stopped I hear a sucky noise coming from this part of the manifold, circled in red.
I noticed a little bit of what appears to be steam not smoke or burn off coming from the section between the intake in the head, circled in red, and there appears to be a port of some sort there that I’m not familiar with. Does anybody know what that is? It could be the intake gasket failed in that area. What I think I may do just for preventative measures, is remove the intake, ill blast / clean and paint it, reinstall with new gaskets and windage tray. I’d like everyone’s thoughts on this please before I start turning wrenches.
Thx
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That’s just a heat crossover It doesn’t go anywhere and loves to collect wayward screws and clips. Gotta be a vacuum leak or crud from the tank has gummed up the idle circuit of the carb.
More ideas coming get ready....
More ideas coming get ready....
Not a big fan of how that carb is set up with a rubber hose on the intake and the linkage looks wrong. The EGR looks like it’s been blocked off but could your leaking sound be from there?
I would start with running the fuel pump out of a clean jerry can to eliminate fuel starvation from plugged lines or pickup. Next I would pull that intake clean inspect and reinstall with fresh gaskets. Then I would get the Holley set up properly making sure if its a spreadbore intake with a square bore carb I have correct gaskets/adapters then correct the linkage.
75LandYacht
Yank Tank
Thanks Graham. Agreed, That Carb was just to get the car moving for transport and get me motoring once home.. changes will be made.. just want to get her on the road for an initial shakedown cruise.
75LandYacht
Yank Tank
Update: turns out to have been BAD gas, I went out this afternoon and I started right up and idled.. stumbled for a bit but then smoothed out. Still has some old gas in the tank, but I added about 7 gals to run it all out.
Special thanks to Graham and Jeff for the words of wisdom.. thx Guys
Special thanks to Graham and Jeff for the words of wisdom.. thx Guys
Edelbrock 1406 here on my stock 440. Bought this Edelbrock Performer Series Carburetor Calibration Kits 1487 and installed richer metering rods. All that was needed. I was alarmed when I first bought the car and thought it must have been a 750 cfm on a big block. No a measly 600cfm. Long story short I looked up tables when this little carb would become a restriction on a stock 440. It was 6200 rpm's Never go there and my points would float long before that. Idles great and reacts instantly. It runs great with the 1406. Not to say the stock carb would not. I think the argument was would a 1406 work well. It will if needed in my opinion especially on a 383.
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OK turboomni so you admit to recalibrate and richen up that 600 to run good on a stock 440.
Proving my point with your post. Yet you and 6 others disagree with my post that says they are too lean. Why?
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Geeze man ,,nothing is perfect. You need to nudge here and there to make every thing to your satisfaction yes? Isn't that that the great thing about about the kit I linked too??? In this case a richer metering rod ,not a jet. Every engine is different isn't it?
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I’m turboomni, I disagree with the guy that posts that the 1406 is lean on a 440, then I post that I richened mine up to make it run right.
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