Good day to all Im reaching out about a price check. I'm in the process of getting a drum to disc conversion kit for a 68 newport I reached out to a local classic car restorer and he priced me at around 2400.00 in labor alone to do the job the kit is 1325.00 so is 4000 bucks the average cost for this type mod?
PRICE CHECK
- Thread starter I84885
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Why do you feel the need for that modification? www.musclecarbrakes.com can provide new shoes with better frictions than OEM for a good bit less money and trouble, I suspect. It's the frictions which stop the car, NOT the type of brakes on the car.
Just curious,
CBODY67
Just curious,
CBODY67
You are correct. But this mechanic claims once the drums heat up or get wet for some reason. That they become un predictable. He claims they may pull to the left or right or may not slow you down safely at all. I can't say because I haven't had much experience with drum brakes
Xenon
Senior Member
Where what he says is almost, mostly true, a properly set up drum brake system is perfectly fine..
Most of the "pull left / pull right" during braking was from the less than adequate bias belted tires..
Todays radical tires virtually eliminate that characteristic...
And as far as overheating drums,, disc can be overheated as well,, and with same results...
Again, a drum brake system with GOOD parts and properly set up work very well....
However, do consider having master cylinder swapped PROPERLY to a dual master, ...
.
Have you had this problem? Do you plan on driving through deep puddles? Are you driving down mountains where your brakes heat up?
First, get another mechanic.
Second, they aren't "unpredictable" if everything is correctly assembled and in good shape. See the "get another mechanic" reference. They don't pull left or right either (again correctly assembled and in good shape).
Yes, get them really wet... as in driving through a few deep puddles, and they won't work as well as a disc brake, but as anyone that actually drove drum brake cars will tell you, you just drag the brake right after that and they dry up real fast. In all the years and hundreds of thousand miles of driving drum brake cars, I can only think of a few times where wet brakes where even slightly an issue. But really, I doubt very seriously you'll be driving in that weather on a regular basis.
Heat? Yea, but that can affect disc brakes too. It takes a ton of heat to make the drums fade, that's usually from a few high speed stops in a row. Are you going to be doing that? Nope...
So, your mechanic gave you a price to help him reach retirement a little faster. His advice isn't based in fact.
If you really want to add disc brakes, look at using the Chrysler setup which will be a lot cheaper and probably better.. Disc brakes are a good upgrade, nothing wrong with doing them, but your mechanic just wants to take your money... No F'ing way he's spending 24 hours doing the swap ($100 per hour) Again, get another mechanic.
As @Xenon, says... do the dual master cylinder swap... and use Chrysler master cylinder etc. rather than the aftermarket converted GM stuff that they love to sell you.
I have driven some B bodies that were adequate with drum brakes but never a C body. In a panic stop from typical freeway speeds these days (like 70 - 75 mph) halfway through the stop the fade is ridiculous and unsafe (it just takes one person on their cell phone ahead of you who isn't paying attention and panic stops are unavoidable even with safe driving distances between cars which is usually a car length per each 10 mph increment). And I have some idea how to rebuild both with good parts too. Whenever I buy a C body with drum brakes, which is rare, they are the first thing to go. Disc brakes do not come close to the fade issues that the drum brakes exhibit.
I wouldn't even drive a C body down Cajon Pass or the Grapevine in Southern California with drum brakes because they are that poor when it comes to fade resistance.
No OEM manufacturer these days puts front drum brakes on their cars for good reasons. I also saw the proving ground data on this subject when I did a 4 month assignment at Chrysler's Chelsea Proving Grounds and the results were night and day regarding fade.
Here is a pretty straightforward article on the pros/cons of disc vs drum brakes that is worth reading: 7 Reasons To Leave Drum Brakes In The Past – 6th Gear Automotive Solutions
I wouldn't even drive a C body down Cajon Pass or the Grapevine in Southern California with drum brakes because they are that poor when it comes to fade resistance.
No OEM manufacturer these days puts front drum brakes on their cars for good reasons. I also saw the proving ground data on this subject when I did a 4 month assignment at Chrysler's Chelsea Proving Grounds and the results were night and day regarding fade.
Here is a pretty straightforward article on the pros/cons of disc vs drum brakes that is worth reading: 7 Reasons To Leave Drum Brakes In The Past – 6th Gear Automotive Solutions
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Thank you it currently has a dual master cylinder but the brake booster doest look in the best of shape. But its working. No I don't plan on driving in any large puddles lol but I am in Florida we get heavy rain every day starting at 4pm. But once again thank you for your advice it will save me and my bank account alot of grief. So I will just make sure my drum set up is sound and I should be good to go
68PK21 440.6bbl
Old Man with a Hat
4 Grand? Hell I'm going back into business, better yet I'm gonna fix Million $$$$$$ Motor Homes!
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Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
There is a sticky post right at the top of the brakes forum:
Fuselage - Drums to Disc Brake Conversion
Please, please, please give this a read through. NO way in H-E double hockey sticks is this conversion worth $4K on a C body.
Fuselage - Drums to Disc Brake Conversion
Please, please, please give this a read through. NO way in H-E double hockey sticks is this conversion worth $4K on a C body.
Ok thanks if you had to pay. What would be a reasonable amount
At $4k you are essentially being asked to "bend over and squeal like a pig" if I can quote the famous movie line. As suggested, go with a '69-'73 factory C-Body disc setup. These can still be had for about $300-$400. You will need to have the calipers rebuilt ($25 ea) and you will need new brake hoses and rotors, about another $200. Will also need a disc brake master cylinder ($60) and a disc brake booster. In addition, you will need to install a disc brake proportioning valve ($50) to rebalance the brake system. You will be into about another $200 to have the proper Bendix booster rebuilt. Giving an extremely generous 10hrs of labor to do this job, you should still be into it less than $2k at a reputable shop.
Dave
Dave
Yes, GM cars were notorious for those things, but not Chrysler products, as a general rule. It was common knowledge (even mentioned in Driver's Ed back then) that after driving through water, to lightly touch the brakes to help dry things out quicker. But it was more like to purge any residual moisture from the brakes as there was not anything in there which could absorb water. Some GM cars, it seemed, would get "poor brakes" even if they got CLOSE to a mud puddle, it seemed, but not our '66 Newport Town Sedan. Sure, I knew to lightly apply the brakes after driving through water, but it was not really necessary on that car.
With disc brakes, the brake pads lightly rub against the rotor at all times, which sheds any moisture which does not get slung off of the rotor as it turns. Just as any water in the brake drum would sling out as the rotor turns. So, a bit better brake response time, I suspect, but then more modern calipers pull the pads back more from the rotor, for less drag and less of a drag on fuel economy, as a result.
The "unexpected pulling" probably results in the brake linings getting dried out an uneven rates, but if you gently apply the brakes to dry things out a bit, that pulling probability is greatly diminished, IF it would be there anyway. Of course, having the drum brakes adjusted correctly to start with CAN help things, too.
ONE thing which can help drum brake performance is cleaning out the drum of residual friction material dust. Back then, it was done with compressed air from the shop's compressor. It would dust everything in the service department plus the smell of the lining material. It made a significant difference in the braking performance, too! Later, I would use water from the water hose to do it when I might be washing the car. Seemed to work just as well. BUT now, all of that stuff is "hazzardous material", fwiw.
The other thing is to also learn to NOT "drive up to" stop signs, but coast up to them instead. With the lesser rolling resistance of modern radial tires, the cars will coast quite a ways before needing to use the brakes in that scenario. Just be respectful if there is anybody behind you, fwiw. Of course, this works best with an automatic transmission rather than a manual gearbox.
In determining if you want to do that deal, get an itemized list of parts, parts costs, and labor to do the turn-key deal AND what their shop warranty is on the work. Because once they do that work, "it's THEIRS" and THEIRS to do warranty work on for the stated length of their shop's warranty. Of course, if the shop will use new stuff, be sure to get all of the vendor part numbers on the repair order so you can save it for future use OR so a possible later owner can see what was done.
I know, too, that many of us in here grew up with drum brakes (and learned to use "just a toe" on Power Brakes, back then!), so we knew of their shortcomings and how to get around them. Power Disc Brakes do have some advantages (including ease of service/repairs), just be sure they use high-quality parts in what they do (referencing the recent threads on "brands" of brake parts, for example). On most of those earlier power drum systems, ONE main consideration in a quick stop was the friction interface between the bias-ply tires and the road surface AND a bit of driver expertise in keeping the rear tires from sliding (and related tire smoke). Which means that a car with radial ties, or even belted-bias-ply tires would stop quicker than OEM bias-ply tires would.
A side issue can be that many techs in the future might know what they were looking at AND know how to work on disc brakes rather than drum brakes. Not unlike EFI vs carbs or electric ignition vs ignition points. BTAIM
Enjoy!
CBODY67
1970FuryConv
Old Man with a Hat
$4000 is a total rip off. Fire the mechanic.
I have converted a drum brake car to the factory 1969-1972 c-body disc brakes. It's not that hard. Ina ddition to knuckle/spindles, discs, pads, calipers, you will need disc brake master cylinder. Drum is not the same.
I have converted a drum brake car to the factory 1969-1972 c-body disc brakes. It's not that hard. Ina ddition to knuckle/spindles, discs, pads, calipers, you will need disc brake master cylinder. Drum is not the same.
I just went to the site you referenced and they don't have any to fit C-bodies w/ 11" brake shoes at all. I agree that the factory stuff from 1973 is the way to go, but those parts are getting hard to come by and shipping used parts is really expensive.I just went to Scarebird's site 1957-61 Plymouth, Dodge front and it looks like it has been updated and they have their own HD calipers for a good price Monster calipers
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My apologies for that indiscretion! But considering that the '67 GTX came with 11x3 front brakes and 11x2.5 rear brakes, that they do their own "building", that they could well re-line your existing brake shoes with the same friction material as they sell for intermediate-size muscle cars. Just my suspicions. Key thing is their availability of 11" brake friction material.
Take care,
CBODY67
Take care,
CBODY67
Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
Hard to say. Everything I’ve done to my project I’ve done myself, even if I’ve never done it before, there are plenty of tutorials out there. I think I spent about a week of on and off work doing mine. I think that’s what it took Gary to do from the link I posted. I would say it is no more than an 8 hour job for a seasoned mechanic, maybe $800 in labor. As for the parts, it’s all bolt on, and there are complete used setups out there with everything you need for under $500.
When you say complete sets are you meaning putting different items together or 1 stop shopping
LocuMob
Fluid Technician with a hat
I wanted to do a disc brake conversion about 15 years ago, still haven't. I've driven all over, in all types of traffic, with subpar drum brakes, that were not properly bled. (Not bragging) But I was well aware of their condition and how they performed, and have never had any incidents. Knowing your car is as important as what brake setup you have. I gave up on the conversion idea, but have improved the drum setup over the years. Crappy parts have been my biggest challenge, I swapped all wheel cylinders and found out the drivers front bleeder screw is a size I don't know about. I tried all my standard and metric wrenches, and nothing fits. So I still have air in the line. Just enough where I need to pump the pedal proactively. But it stops fine, even under very hard breaking. All my other cars with drum brakes stop normally, and effectively.
People weren't dying by the thousands all the time when these cars were new, it's just that something better came along, disc brakes, and drums have developed a bad rap since discs became prominent. Set up the drums correctly, save your money and enjoy the car.
People weren't dying by the thousands all the time when these cars were new, it's just that something better came along, disc brakes, and drums have developed a bad rap since discs became prominent. Set up the drums correctly, save your money and enjoy the car.
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