RTS Buses (continued)

Funny story on the color scheme change. A couple of women from the transit department went to the mall with color samples to show the public and that is what they came back with. Gumby and Barney buses is what we not so lovingly referred to them by. Sad thing is the white with orange and purple stripes looked great and was very easy to do. The colors were inspired by the Phoenix Suns basketball team colors. They also did away with Tico, the sun logo because someone decided it was racist because it had dingle balls on the brim of his sombrero. :BangHead:

I'll have to guess that the color change happened in the early 90's when magenta, teal, and purple were all the rage. I think I was still getting Hot Rod magazine at the time, and that was all you saw. Totally Auto's "GTX" instantly comes to mind as one of the more egregious examples of the era.

Totally Auto GTX.JPG


Not at all surprised about the bogus racist claim. The complainers were probably transplants from California or the northeastern US.
 
I did some Aussie coach work many years ago and we were involved in outfitting new coaches as well as converting old coaches into motorhomes which meant in some cases stripping back to the skeleton and redoing everything. The pics here are of one of the last ones I did, the interior plus wiring and a lot of fitment items too. The dash was a sea of wiring for all the multitude of electrical items found throughout such a bus with about 20 to 30 switches fitted into it.
Note the slide out cabin on the right hand side.

Very nice! Is that an Australian-built coach? It has some slight similarities to an MCI.
 
I'll have to guess that the color change happened in the early 90's when magenta, teal, and purple were all the rage. I think I was still getting Hot Rod magazine at the time, and that was all you saw. Totally Auto's "GTX" instantly comes to mind as one of the more egregious examples of the era.


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You are totally correct. During that period I owned a Hardware and Decorating store. Couldn't keep in stock wallpaper with those colors fast enough.
 
Very nice! Is that an Australian-built coach? It has some slight similarities to an MCI.
Yep Aussie built, either Denning or Austral, I can't remember which. There was a tragic bus accident back in the mid 80's that took the lives of about 14 kids on a highway when a tractor trailer side swiped a bus and tore it open like a tin can. The federal government then immediately tightened up the laws to make the bus frames super heavy duty spec. So practically all buses and coaches are/were made is Australia. When I left there were Chinese buses coming onto the market in numbers, built by a factory that were given specs by an Aussie company. They import the POS's and dump them cheap on the market, but damn, they don't last long and always have issues and none of the spare parts mechanically are compatible with the parts that are local even though they are the same brand.
 
They import the POS's and dump them cheap on the market, but damn, they don't last long and always have issues and none of the spare parts mechanically are compatible with the parts that are local even though they are the same brand.
I blame who bought them.
 
I blame who bought them.
It's a tough call, a typical school bus, Aussie built, cost about $400K with the interstate coaches being a minimum $500K, these Chinese rigs meet spec and are sold for $140K so they can't resist.
 
It's a tough call, a typical school bus, Aussie built, cost about $400K with the interstate coaches being a minimum $500K, these Chinese rigs meet spec and are sold for $140K so they can't resist.
That difference is unbelievable and horrible. Now THERE is where tariffs should kick in.
 
That difference is unbelievable and horrible. Now THERE is where tariffs should kick in.
Sounds like a simple plan, but politics being what it is, the Chinese know how to play it too. To make a difference to the actual cost you would have to put a tariff on of about 150% or more before it would start having an effect. Then of course the Chinese government would perk up happily seeing such a tariff and respond with as an example, restrict the flow of goods and commodities from the Australian market by lets say 10%. Doesn't sound like much but that's tens of billions of dollars, and that would have a major impact on Aussie businesses. Then in turn the Australian government would have to quietly go hat in hand to the Chinese behind closed doors and negotiate to have the flow turned back on. What would happen is, the Chinese would say sure sure, remove the tariffs on buses, then we will let the market go back to normal, BUT there is a price to pay, we expect concessions in return....
Obviously that's a simplistic explanation, but when it comes to big and small players, that's basically how it plays out. And no, its not exclusive to China, its how every single market economy in the world does it.
I could go on for hours with this stuff as I am a bit of a student of market interaction and reasons behind economic policies that governments set in place. But this isn't the thread for that. :p
 
Probably a good call, I imagine the conversion cost vs value to be the typical loss... and a PITA on an RTS. A little history is nice to see, even if not what I would want to do... just from a storage aspect (you have a much bigger/better garage).

I had looked at RTS busses a little, 15 years ago. I traded messages with a fellow up by Daytona, who was converting one... looking at some of his headaches and mechanical issues helped steer me away from them. I did think the modular design was pretty neat, just not well suited to my infield camper aspirations.

That looks like a great set up at Carlisle... except, maybe, how many spaces she sits on.

BTW, how rare is a VF V-Drive? The diminishing parts supply issue was scary to me back then, and ultimately helped me decide to stay away from GM coaches... expensive/hard to find stuff is tough for someone when poop goes wrong.

You must have been talking to Pete Papas. He's a great guy, and helped me out with some problems that I had.

Things have changed quite a bit in the last 15-20 years with the bus conversion hobby. Back then it was really going strong, but the increase in diesel prices really put a damper on the lower budget bus converters. When I bought the VTA bus in '02 diesel was $1.45 a gallon, and still under $2 in '06 when I brought the GGT bus home. The spike up to $4.50 really killed many peoples dreams of traveling around the country on a reasonable budget. The other big change has been the increase in quality of the commercially built motor homes. Back then, most of the affordable used RVs were what we called "sticks and staples" construction: basically an aluminum-sided, wood box attached to a stretched out delivery van frame. The build quality was generally pretty bad and they were death traps if you were ever in an accident. They also handled like what they were, a tool shed on wheels. I had a class C Dodge, and every time a semi passed me on the highway, it would blow me 4 feet over onto the shoulder. The RTS is considered the "sports car" of buses. They handle amazingly well, even on pretty twisty roads, and for a transit bus, roll down the highway surprisingly well. Passing semis don't even budge it, and they are very safe in an accident. Almost 20 years later, commercial RV's are nothing like they used to be, and older ones can be had for pennies on the dollar of their original cost. It no longer makes financial sense to do a conversion just to save money. Conversions are now done more on the classic buses, like the Eagles, and more done for style or to have something different from the average RV'er.

Parked parallel to the road, it takes up four spots. I had seven spots for a long time, but now that we don't have much to sell, I've cut it down to five, and we split the cost between four people, so it's not too bad.

The V-drive ZF is actually an adapter bolted onto a regular ZF straight drive transmission, so I don't think parts availability would be an issue. At some point in the 1990's I think they switched completely to the ZF behind the Series 50 and Cummins M-11. It was also used in some other transits, maybe the later Flxibles and one of the European built buses, possibly a Neoplan. GGT originally had reliability problems with the ZF and had factory reps out there to investigate the problem. The solution was to switch from ATF to 15W-40 motor oil. On my trip home, temps dropped into the mid-twenties overnight while I was sleeping in a hotel, and that transmission was NOT happy with that thick oil when I fired it up in the morning. It was howling for at least five minutes until it could build a little heat to thin it out. The ZF also has a built in hydraulic retarder that activates when you step on the brakes, and it works really nice.

DSC02197.JPG
 
That one is easy, it has plugs and color coded wires. Try a big truck one, all white wires with circuit numbers tagged, and printed on the insulation. All fine and dandy for the first couple of years, till the aluminum tags rot off and the wired are so dirty they are unreadable. Go ahead clean them off with some brake clean and then no numbers at all.

Is this on a Pete or KW?

That would make me feel a little better about my money pit Sterling/Ford. I have colored wires and the circuit number is actually printed on the wire every few inches.
 
Is this on a Pete or KW?

That would make me feel a little better about my money pit Sterling/Ford. I have colored wires and the circuit number is actually printed on the wire every few inches.
Pete, I believe KW are the same, Kevin can confirm. The 95 Freightliner I took apart had all yellow wires, that was fun chasing them to their endpoint and separating the engine controls from the rest of the truck, so I could transfer to my 85 Pete.
 
Pete, I believe KW are the same, Kevin can confirm. The 95 Freightliner I took apart had all yellow wires, that was fun chasing them to their endpoint and separating the engine controls from the rest of the truck, so I could transfer to my 85 Pete.

Interesting.... I had no idea that they were that way.

My Sterling is a model year 2000, and it's 100% Ford. Over time, the Freightliner content was increased as they found ways to cut costs replacing Ford parts with existing production Freightliner parts. Wouldn't be surprised if they eventually changed the wiring too. The earlier Sterlings came with a nice laminated wiring diagram for on the road troubleshooting, which has come in handy a couple times.
 
Here's one of the Phoenix Metro RTS's that escaped the scrapper. Looks like it made it's way to Northern California. I got these from the RTS Yahoo group.

Phoenix Metro 1.JPG


Phoenix Metro 2.JPG

Phoenix Metro 3.JPG


It appears they were older than I thought, 1979's. That was one of the problems with the RTS. They lasted too long and didn't get enough repeat orders. The biggest issue though, was that they were too expensive in a market where lowest bid usually gets the sale, with no consideration for lifetime cost of ownership. Also, the switch to low floor buses thanks to the ADA didn't help either.
 
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Here's a bit more from the Yahoo group. I got to tour this one in person when the owner still lived in Connecticut. It's just as nice in real life as in the pics. The outside is a bit plain, but at the time it had just been painted and I think some graphics or a mural were in the future. Unfortunately, the Yahoo site limited the photo size, so they are on the small size. After looking at these for the first time in ten years, I'm getting the Jones for a conversion project again. I need to resist, as there are too many broken down C-Bodies that need my attention.

Al's RTS 1.JPG

Al's RTS 2.JPG

Al's RTS 3.JPG

Al's RTS 4.JPG

Al's RTS 5.JPG
 
The Class 8 semi-tractor that Ford introduced to replace the Louisville was a super improvement. Ford let it go to Mercedes for cheap money because the new line was a sales disaster, when compared to the popularity of the Louisville. Don't know why that happened. Great tractor.
Mercedes had a multi-year plan to to swallow up the low end/high volume class 8 market and hey were going to use the Sterling to break the stranglehold Ford and International had on it. Feature for feature, an International was thousands less than other comparable tractors.
Guessing that they figured out to totally trash the new Freightliners was cheaper.
Everywhere, all you see now, Cascadias. And they are all white. White generic blobs with automatic transmissions. Driven by idiots.
Don't get me started...
 
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