Sleep and Alzheimer's

[tbm3fan]

A very interesting study that has just been released regarding the lack of sleep/poor sleep and the build up of amyloid over time. This one is a first because it used human subjects rather than animal subjects to project what might happen in a human. Still much work to be done as the type and cause of such poor sleep and daytime drowsiness needs to sorted out as mentioned in article.

Excessive daytime sleepiness tied to Alzheimer's - CNN

 

[CBODY67]

The whole issue with "sleep" is that during certain segments, the spinal fluid is supposed to flush any amyloid plaque out of the brain. If that doesn't happen, the build-up occurs, they claim.

I have not heard any mention of the necessity of REM sleep or not as to the "stage of sleep" where "the flushing" is supposed to take place. Or how long it happens during each sleep period?

Decades ago, the standard recommendation was a full 8 hrs of sleep each night. More recently, I've seen "9 hours" mentioned as optimal, yet few seem to be capable of that. IF that's the case, the rates of Alz will skyrocket as the baby boomers and others who tended to be workaholics and "took work home with them" get past their later 60s in age.

There's also been mention that the older one gets, the less sleep they need. In this orientation, sleep is considered the "repairative time", so older individuals apparently have less to build or repair than younger kids?

MANY factors affect how much sleep each individual really needs. We might have some better answers in another 20 years? Although "sleep" has been studies for the past 50+ years.

CBODY67

 

[jct]

i don't believe everything that i read, expect all the car related help i receive here

 

[garyh]

If it's on CNN , It Must be true !

 

[tbm3fan]

The whole issue with "sleep" is that during certain segments, the spinal fluid is supposed to flush any amyloid plaque out of the brain. If that doesn't happen, the build-up occurs, they claim.

I have not heard any mention of the necessity of REM sleep or not as to the "stage of sleep" where "the flushing" is supposed to take place. Or how long it happens during each sleep period?

Decades ago, the standard recommendation was a full 8 hrs of sleep each night. More recently, I've seen "9 hours" mentioned as optimal, yet few seem to be capable of that. IF that's the case, the rates of Alz will skyrocket as the baby boomers and others who tended to be workaholics and "took work home with them" get past their later 60s in age.

There's also been mention that the older one gets, the less sleep they need. In this orientation, sleep is considered the "repairative time", so older individuals apparently have less to build or repair than younger kids?

MANY factors affect how much sleep each individual really needs. We might have some better answers in another 20 years? Although "sleep" has been studies for the past 50+ years.

CBODY67

There is already evidence that the human brain requires 7-9 hours of sleep each night in order to purge itself of metabolic waste products created during the day. When the brain is asleep it actually shrinks in size compared to it's daytime activities. This decreased size allows the cerebral spinal fluid to increase and wash away toxins from those daytime activities. This detoxification can only happen during sleep.

This information has been around awhile. As for me I have always gotten a minimum of 7 1/2 hours sleep and rarely less. Once in awhile I would get less because of needing to wake up early in order to board the ships in the Suisun Reserve Fleet. The excitement had me awake right up till lunch when I always fell asleep on the steel decks. Today it is still 7-8 hours, nothing more and never less. Some may not believe any of this but I find it easy to employ so why take the chance. Much like blue blocker sun lenses back around 1985. The idea was new but the hypothesis was interesting to me so I prescribed myself some. Have used them ever since to this day and now research is beginning to show I made a good bet.

Best yet those who get the required sleep look more youthful From a wholly unscientific survey I have seen this as true. All those who come into my office get a thorough case history and consequently I know their daily schedules and how much sleep they may get on average. Around the Bay Area it can get pretty low because of the commutes one has to endure.

 

[jct]

If it's on CNN , It Must be true !

And foxnews

 

[LocuMob]

for me I have always gotten a minimum of 7 1/2 hours sleep and rarely less

Wow! Wish I could say that. If we have the granddaughters over, I'm lucky to get 4 hours of sleep. I shouldn't need to, but get pulled into duty to help Laura, and it's hard when I know the 3 year old won't be 3 forever. My work schedule is a little kinder to me as of the last year, but I still have to make time for working on the cars on days I work, which adds to the lack of sleep. Some of it is my fault, but even when I don't do anything on my list, something pops up, and sleep becomes optional, unfortunately.

 

[tbm3fan]

If it's on CNN , It Must be true !

Science not a strong point? Then how about reading the journals?

Self-reported sleep and Alzheimer disease CSF biomarkers

Sleep architecture and the risk of incident dementia in the community

Association of Excessive Daytime Sleepiness With Future β-Amyloid Accumulation

and the CNN referenced article from JAMA Neurology

Excessive Daytime Sleepiness and β-Amyloid Accumulation in Elderly Persons Without Dementia

 

[hanks71440]

And this is why I drink. The metabolic waste that's purged from my brain while sleeping also sterilizes the cranium. The Sinifferous, Efferescent, Obstantagous phrases that were stated in this article does not impress me....

 

[Big_John]

8 hours?

6 hours is a long nights sleep for me. 5 hours is average for me and has been my adult life.

Who are you guys again and why am I here?

 

[70bigblockdodge]

A very interesting study that has just been released regarding the lack of sleep/poor sleep and the build up of amyloid over time. This one is a first because it used human subjects rather than animal subjects to project what might happen in a human. Still much work to be done as the type and cause of such poor sleep and daytime drowsiness needs to sorted out as mentioned in article.

Excessive daytime sleepiness tied to Alzheimer's - CNN

Hope they make progress, it's a terrible disease. I have a friend who's mother is in this. Otherwise healthy but, will deteriorate due to mind going.

 

[shooter65]

IMHO the problem with these studies is that they are generalizations and cause unnecessary concern.

If you're not sleeping, go to your doctor, don't read articles that are designed to scare people and sell ad space.

My sleep is cyclical but averages 5 hours. My wife made me go to the doctor, after a couple visits and a sleep study, it was determined that I don't require as much sleep. No need for concern in my case.

 

[Fratzog]

My personal experience seems to align with the article. Now semi retired I'm experiencing much longer and more restful sleep on my non-work days, about 8 hours. On work days I'm up before the alarm with at most 6.5 hours of sleep. After 40 years of this the damage may already be done and irreversible.

 

[tbm3fan]

IMHO the problem with these studies is that they are generalizations and cause unnecessary concern.

If you're not sleeping, go to your doctor, don't read articles that are designed to scare people and sell ad space.

My sleep is cyclical but averages 5 hours. My wife made me go to the doctor, after a couple visits and a sleep study, it was determined that I don't require as much sleep. No need for concern in my case.

Once again the original post is not a typical article as much as it is an abstract of the real study linked. The real study was not designed to scare people and sell ads. It was designed to find out anything we can about a serious disease that is increasing. Just like in heart disease where you can take steps to improve your odds so can the same thing be learned about Alzheimer's and dementia.

Make light of it but I suspect not many of you are not around people who suffer from that on a weekly basis like me. I remember the first year of seeing people in nursing homes was mentally very tough. I saw those people and then saw myself in the same situation and it was messing with my mind. Took a bit but I was able to adjust to what was around me. Nonetheless, it is not a pleasant way to go by any means. If it could be avoided I would highly recommend it which is why these studies are so important. A doctor who says 5 hours is enough for a person is one who probably doesn't know or understand these studies to begin with.

My father, at 92, still has his memory. However, my mother at 86, recalls zero. She wanders the house at night from room to room as though each room was new all over again. She is with my sister who has to get her into bed and then lay out her clothes for the next day or she would never change. She also would never eat as she can't remember anything about food. In the end Alzheimer's has damaged so much of your brain that your body can forget simple things like breathing. My advice to those who don't think it is a big deal is to keep a .38 cal gun loaded with one round for when that day comes. Wait too long and it will be too late to do anything except sit in a wheelchair staring off into space or making no sense for years.

 

[Fury440]

My advice to those who don't think it is a big deal is to keep a .38 cal gun loaded with one round for when that day comes. Wait too long and it will be too late to do anything except sit in a wheelchair staring off into space or making no sense for years.

Damn that's dark!
When the "time" comes, would you remember where the gun is and what to do with it?

 

[tbm3fan]

Damn that's dark!
When the "time" comes, would you remember where the gun is and what to do with it?

When you start to forget where your car keys are now and then, when you go to the store to get an item twice, when you get to a store and can't recall why, when you have to think for a moment about how to get home, when you joke about your memory not being what it once was in a more serious vein then you will need to be proactive at that time.

 

[jct]

Then you get charged with murder. But who wants that

 

[shooter65]

Once again the original post is not a typical article as much as it is an abstract of the real study linked. The real study was not designed to scare people and sell ads. It was designed to find out anything we can about a serious disease that is increasing. Just like in heart disease where you can take steps to improve your odds so can the same thing be learned about Alzheimer's and dementia.

Make light of it but I suspect not many of you are not around people who suffer from that on a weekly basis like me. I remember the first year of seeing people in nursing homes was mentally very tough. I saw those people and then saw myself in the same situation and it was messing with my mind. Took a bit but I was able to adjust to what was around me. Nonetheless, it is not a pleasant way to go by any means. If it could be avoided I would highly recommend it which is why these studies are so important. A doctor who says 5 hours is enough for a person is one who probably doesn't know or understand these studies to begin with.

My father, at 92, still has his memory. However, my mother at 86, recalls zero. She wanders the house at night from room to room as though each room was new all over again. She is with my sister who has to get her into bed and then lay out her clothes for the next day or she would never change. She also would never eat as she can't remember anything about food. In the end Alzheimer's has damaged so much of your brain that your body can forget simple things like breathing. My advice to those who don't think it is a big deal is to keep a .38 cal gun loaded with one round for when that day comes. Wait too long and it will be too late to do anything except sit in a wheelchair staring off into space or making no sense for years.

I was not making light of it, you have no idea what my experiences are. No disrespect intended but as far as my doctor, I'll take his advice over yours every time. My only point was that if your concerned, consult a professional. Nothing more.

 

[CBODY67]

I believe it's a "given" that we all have bodily orientations that are similar, but different. If I sleep more than 8 hours, I feel tired all day. 6 hours seems to be operationally better. The "8 hours" spec has been around for ages, it seems.

As my mother's situation progressed, all she wanted to do was sleep, many days. That should have been plenty of time for the fluid wash to happen, or does it happen as thoroughly at 88 as it can at 25?

Before her forgetfulness really became an issue, her hallucinations were. I had not heard of that being a part of Alz. They weren't serious or harmful and when presented with evidence that what she claimed to have seen didn't happen, she still believed she saw it.

It was mentioned a while back that while we might consider "short term memory" to be "last 10 minutes", it was actually "last 45 seconds" instead.

The ONLY thing about following guidelines of amount/quality of sleep, etc., is that we don't know IF they work for us until decades later. Same for other aspects of "healthy living", but then I've seen some who were generally healthy for the bulk of their lives have other issues which resulted in their earlier demise. A "no win" situation? Never know until it's much later in life.

Kind of like "If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself."

Enjoy Life whenever possible!
CBODY67

 

[Fury440]

When you start to forget where your car keys are now and then, when you go to the store to get an item twice, when you get to a store and can't recall why, when you have to think for a moment about how to get home, when you joke about your memory not being what it once was in a more serious vein then you will need to be proactive at that time.

I'm not sure I agree. Forgetting things like car keys are maybe more a factor of getting distracted and putting things in "nonstandard" places. For example if you "always" put you keys on a specific table but one time you are distracted by the phone and leave them on a different table, later you will have troubles trying to figure out where you left them. I suggest a persons ability to multitask diminishes with age which presents as absent mindless more than memory loss. My late mother was a prime example. She would turn the stove on with the pot on the wrong burner. Or cook something complicated from memory and forget to turn the burner off. This was not a memory problem, she just got "into" the next problem before completing the last task. Eventually I pulled the fuses and converted her to microwave. Her memories accurately spanned both long and short term right up to her death at 99 years of age.