Technician Shortage...

I just read this and thought it to be one of the better pieces on the subject... there are a few others from the industry in here... what do you think?

Addressing the technician shortage | Search Autoparts

Had I known what I know now back when I was considering Trade school or University i would have taken the Trade school route and got my Journeyman Ticket. A good Tech can command big money right now in a Dealership setting. With manufacturer's demanding a tech meet certain levels of training before you can do warranty work - a Tech must be on top of his training constantly to stay certified to do this kind of work but if he does he will make lots of hours while the untrained tech does PDI's. My Son-In-Law is a 3rd year at a Dodge Dealer (Not Mine) and has all the Chrysler training they offer and makes more hours than the 20 year Journeyman who can't be bothered to take the training. If I was an 18 year old and didn't know what I wanted to do and didn't want to go to University that would be my choice. Skilled trades are a dying breed. Working with your hands seems to be degrading to many of the Millennials that walk through my door. Go ahead and spend 8 years in University to get that Environmental Science degree so you can be a supervisor at Arby's and protest pipelines....
 
Out of curiosity how much does that pay? Fully certified tech?

Up here a top level tech is making about $44/hr and would be running at 130% plus on flat rate. That means he is billing work out at flat rate and finishing it faster than the booked time so his efficiency is 130% of book time. This is the sign of a good tech or a careless one depending on the quality of work. We need 8hrs a day on each hoist as a minimum. My kid was averaging 11.5hrs/day last month and it was slow. So the math goes like this....22 work days in the month, 11.5hrs per day...$44/hr rate equals $11132 gross. Door rates are on average $139/hr here which has to cover all the operating and fixed cost expenses of running a 17 Bay shop. Shop supplies are just Doc fees to keep paper towel on the roller and hand cleaner in the tubs.
 
Skilled trades are a dying breed. Working with your hands seems to be degrading to many of the Millennials that walk through my door. Go ahead and spend 8 years in University to get that Environmental Science degree so you can be a supervisor at Arby's and protest pipelines....

I went through a Vocational High School and I made a pretty good living because of it. Things I learned in that school followed me up until the day I retired.

I remember reading how the educators felt that "shop" class was no longer needed.... and while they won't admit it, vocational programs were a dumping grounds for problem kids.
 
Had I known what I know now back when I was considering Trade school or University i would have taken the Trade school route and got my Journeyman Ticket. A good Tech can command big money right now in a Dealership setting. With manufacturer's demanding a tech meet certain levels of training before you can do warranty work - a Tech must be on top of his training constantly to stay certified to do this kind of work but if he does he will make lots of hours while the untrained tech does PDI's. My Son-In-Law is a 3rd year at a Dodge Dealer (Not Mine) and has all the Chrysler training they offer and makes more hours than the 20 year Journeyman who can't be bothered to take the training. If I was an 18 year old and didn't know what I wanted to do and didn't want to go to University that would be my choice. Skilled trades are a dying breed. Working with your hands seems to be degrading to many of the Millennials that walk through my door. Go ahead and spend 8 years in University to get that Environmental Science degree so you can be a supervisor at Arby's and protest pipelines....

I agree in many ways... the key to this is "give-a-****" if you do, I can work with you and we can develop you into something... If you don't, not even the fast food industry will have use for you for very long.

My last apprentice (USA, not a regulated program, just a poor useless kid) worked in the shop as a janitor/go-fer for 2 years prior to being placed in my care. I spent the next 2 months working with him and his complete lack of confidence (his first oil change when he started, he striped the drain plug and cost the shop an oil pan... last time they trusted him) teaching him to do an oil change and full vehicle inspection/tire rotation... He was dumb as a hammer, but not nearly as useless as they made him feel he was.

He only came in for the last couple hours of the day. High school kid, and we didn't always have a car for him. I made one simple rule for him to follow, "Take your time and make sure it's right, come get me at the end of every single step". He put a car on the lift... got the wheels off the floor a couple inches, got me... I shook the car so hard it scared the poop out of him.... car didn't fall. "Ok, you're good. Put it up and drain the oil. Then come get me." Walked him through visual inspections and how to spot worn items.

After the first week or two, he still had to come get me... but he had to tell me what he found first. This poor kid required the most positive reinforcement to function of anyone I ever dealt with. But as his confidence grew, and the constant lessons of what to look for, he learned to do the oil change I would expect from any newbie... and he didn't need so much "special attention" to function.

The scumbag who owned the place was impressed and tried hard to make me take a salaried foreman position... I think it was his way of trying to screw me out of my $30 flat rate... he didn't like paying that so much he constantly screwed himself trying to keep my hours down by giving jobs he knew I would crush to the guy's who couldn't do them. I still did well enough to climb out of the hole from a year working with one arm and some expensive co-pays for shoulder surgery. When I blew up the other shoulder (being a dumbass) I knew it was time to go. He actually followed up the repeated foreman offer with firing me and demanding I get moved off his property at once, while I was quitting... very funny to all who watched.

I worked with a lot of apprentices and new guys... they all needed something different to overcome the confidence issue. They all need to progress in pay and job difficulty to turn into anything good.

I know dealer management models need "B" techs... I hope your 20 year guy is happy and paid his worth... just as I hope your 3 year son-in-law is properly rewarded for his efforts.

I hung the wrenches up a decade ago, I hear $30s-40s hourly flat rates and miss my old life... stupid aging process...
 
and while they won't admit it, vocational programs were a dumping grounds for problem kids.

You were a baddie John LOL. I went to Vocational Ed class to for auto mechanics and would have continued in that line had I not joined the AF after H.S.
 
Out of curiosity how much does that pay? Fully certified tech?
Flat rates are very widely spread... location, local demand mean a lot. They also differ between brands a bit. I made more easy hours on MB product than the guys in the Chrysler shop next door... they had a slightly higher rate to keep the good ones in place. I had worked with a couple in a Dodge dealer a few years before.

From the rumors I hear, the diesel techs are worth top money if they are half useful... lots of dealers are too stupid to train their own and simply steal from each other. If you don't have factory certs, you can't do the warranty work the dealer relies on...
 
I don't understand what the bold parts means but damn that's over $90K a year at 40 hrs per week.
If you did 60 hours paid labor in a 40 hour week... 150%
My best day was around 100 hours... my worst week was probably around 8... flow of work makes a real difference. If the shop doesn't keep the bays full and doesn't compensate for the slow times they lose help...
 
I don't understand what the bold parts means but damn that's over $90K a year at 40 hrs per week.

Technicians are paid on a "Flat Rate" system which means if the "Book" time on a job is 2.5hours and it takes you 1.75hours you are running a higher efficiency and therefore got paid for 2.5 hours but only worked 1.75 hours. The idea is to get paid like my kid did 11.5 hours a day but only worked 8 hours. A poor tech is one who spends 8 hours a day at his bench but only getting paid 5 hours for his trouble because he took more time to complete the work than the book said it should. On another note, warranty work only pays 60% of the flat rate so when a tech does warranty work he is no longer working at $44/hr but at $26.40. This is why many shops either make warranty work difficult for the customer or LIE about what is covered. Customer Pay work is full price and better for the company and the tech, warranty work sucks and used to be pawned off on the apprentices but now FCA will not pay warranty claims unless the tech has completed the required skill training for that job so the top level techs get stuck doing it. Next time you bring in your 2016 Jeep Cherokee for that funny noise that comes and goes and the tech spends an hour looking for it and "Finds nothing wrong" and hands you a bill for $139 you will see what I mean. Warranty won't pay unless there is a scanned code or obvious part failure. Diagnosis is charged to the customer for the tech's time otherwise. Keep in mind many of these tech's have over $30000 invested in tools to pay for.
 
Technicians are paid on a "Flat Rate" system which means if the "Book" time on a job is 2.5hours and it takes you 1.75hours you are running a higher efficiency and therefore got paid for 2.5 hours but only worked 1.75 hours. The idea is to get paid like my kid did 11.5 hours a day but only worked 8 hours. A poor tech is one who spends 8 hours a day at his bench but only getting paid 5 hours for his trouble because he took more time to complete the work than the book said it should. On another note, warranty work only pays 60% of the flat rate so when a tech does warranty work he is no longer working at $44/hr but at $26.40. This is why many shops either make warranty work difficult for the customer or LIE about what is covered. Customer Pay work is full price and better for the company and the tech, warranty work sucks and used to be pawned off on the apprentices but now FCA will not pay warranty claims unless the tech has completed the required skill training for that job so the top level techs get stuck doing it. Next time you bring in your 2016 Jeep Cherokee for that funny noise that comes and goes and the tech spends an hour looking for it and "Finds nothing wrong" and hands you a bill for $139 you will see what I mean. Warranty won't pay unless there is a scanned code or obvious part failure. Diagnosis is charged to the customer for the tech's time otherwise. Keep in mind many of these tech's have over $30000 invested in tools to pay for.


Excellent explanation. Thank you Doba
 
If you did 60 hours paid labor in a 40 hour week... 150%
My best day was around 100 hours... my worst week was probably around 8... flow of work makes a real difference. If the shop doesn't keep the bays full and doesn't compensate for the slow times they lose help...

Cheers :) I get it thanks for your and Doba's splain'in
 
Technicians are paid on a "Flat Rate" system which means if the "Book" time on a job is 2.5hours and it takes you 1.75hours you are running a higher efficiency and therefore got paid for 2.5 hours but only worked 1.75 hours. The idea is to get paid like my kid did 11.5 hours a day but only worked 8 hours. A poor tech is one who spends 8 hours a day at his bench but only getting paid 5 hours for his trouble because he took more time to complete the work than the book said it should. On another note, warranty work only pays 60% of the flat rate so when a tech does warranty work he is no longer working at $44/hr but at $26.40. This is why many shops either make warranty work difficult for the customer or LIE about what is covered. Customer Pay work is full price and better for the company and the tech, warranty work sucks and used to be pawned off on the apprentices but now FCA will not pay warranty claims unless the tech has completed the required skill training for that job so the top level techs get stuck doing it. Next time you bring in your 2016 Jeep Cherokee for that funny noise that comes and goes and the tech spends an hour looking for it and "Finds nothing wrong" and hands you a bill for $139 you will see what I mean. Warranty won't pay unless there is a scanned code or obvious part failure. Diagnosis is charged to the customer for the tech's time otherwise. Keep in mind many of these tech's have over $30000 invested in tools to pay for.

This is all very interesting, and great from the shop and tech's point of view. But what ever happened to customer service....? If I bring my new $25000.00 vehicle in to have a "funny noise" checked, and nothing is done and I'm charged $139.00...... I'll only be dumb once and not come back, for service OR a replacement vehicle. Tough to keep a shop full doing business like that.
It seems the customer should still be placed first before shop/flat rate. Perhaps it's an obsolete concept these days, but back in the day we took care of the customer.

I understand "flat rate". I made my living doing it for many years. I also worked as a service procedure development tech and established labor time studies. A good tech should easily beat flat rate after a couple of times through a procedure.
Like in any business, tools are a necessary investment and requires a heavy upfront outlay which tapers off as needed through out a techs career, which cab be 20-30 years.
 
This is all very interesting, and great from the shop and tech's point of view. But what ever happened to customer service....? If I bring my new $25000.00 vehicle in to have a "funny noise" checked, and nothing is done and I'm charged $139.00...... I'll only be dumb once and not come back, for service OR a replacement vehicle. Tough to keep a shop full doing business like that.
It seems the customer should still be placed first before shop/flat rate. Perhaps it's an obsolete concept these days, but back in the day we took care of the customer.

I understand "flat rate". I made my living doing it for many years. I also worked as a service procedure development tech and established labor time studies. A good tech should easily beat flat rate after a couple of times through a procedure.
Like in any business, tools are a necessary investment and requires a heavy upfront outlay which tapers off as needed through out a techs career, which cab be 20-30 years.

As you can guess the "Customer Service" aspect becomes paramount when considering what to ask a customer to pay for. 9 times out of 10 the shop eats the diagnosis time and pays the tech anyway. If we do insist a customer pay it is usually related to stupidity or abuse. The Customer Service part of FCA has been put back onto the individual Dealers as FCA no longer maintains a Satisfaction Survey. They are not interested in YOUR experience with the Dealer as they have no control on the retail side of the business. It is their contention that BAD Dealers will fail while GOOD Dealers will flourish. Piss off customers enough and they won't come back. As my esteemed technician friend here can tell you a Service Department can ruin a good Sales Department experience in a heartbeat....and ViceVersa...
 
Keep in mind many of these tech's have over $30000 invested in tools to pay for.



It seems the customer should still be placed first before shop/flat rate. Perhaps it's an obsolete concept these days, but back in the day we took care of the customer.

Like in any business, tools are a necessary investment and requires a heavy upfront outlay which tapers off as needed through out a techs career, which cab be 20-30 years.

I was a dumbass... I switched jobs too often, usually because of a better offer and boredom with the one I was in. I also refused to specialize completely, so I wound up doing stuff in driveability and the rest of the car...

It put an ugly learning curve on me whenever I switched brands and it caused me to continue to outgrow tool boxes... and then I moved just when the experience factor really started to help me.

Don't worry Will, customer service isn't entirely dead. I often shuffled a "no money job" back out the door without charge. I often did this with suspected fuel concerns, Explaining to the customer that warranty won't pay for me to drop, drain and clean the tank and dispose of the old fuel... would they like to switch gas stations and see what happens for no charge? Never had a complaint over that, and often won over a new customer.

Doba, I believe we operate under different warranty laws here in the states. Most times a mystery noise occurred either the customer had to drive with the advisor or foreman to duplicate it. It is amazing how many never get to the shop. Also many techs with less integrity would hang a part to get paid. I would be a liar if I said I never charged warranty for an o-ring to get paid for an A/C top pff at the end of warranty.

Aftermarket warranty inspectors were one of my favorite amusements... here is a guy who has some qualifications, but can't do my job... and it is his job to question my diagnosis and try to screw me out of hours. More than a few times the aftermarket labor time is missing steps and underpaid... window regulators don't account for door panel removal on many cars.

Umm you booked 100 hours in one day? I hope you took the rest of the week off....

I swear I told that one already... That last shop of my career was an aftermarket european brands affair in Naples FL. Hurricane Wilma had come through the month before and had several big irons in the fire waiting for parts or approval. Spent all day Wednesday, in between legitimate work, screwing around with an aftermarket warranty company for amusement and profit. Older E320 Cabriolet model that had been damaged and then sat at the body shop with no back glass... and a slew of electrical problems.

I spent 20-30 minutes on AllData pulling schematics and another 10 doing voltage drops to prove the circuit in question... this car has a raised floor that has lots of wiring and goodies under it. I knew that model quite well. Throughout the day the insurance company sent 2 adjusters and finally had me speak to a supervisor on the phone at their home office after faxing them my schematics and test results. Them "I need to take a picture, can you show me the wiring failure?" Me "Sure, you just have to pay me to remove and reinstall the entire interior." Them "Well then, how do you know?" Me "Simple electrical theory, if this is beyond you I can have the advisor fax a copy of the schematics you are looking at to someone who does understand." Them "But I need a picture." Me "Sure thing, just pay me and you can make a video." Been down that road, once opened up, they know you are obligated to put it back so then they try to negotiate labor... nobody wants their nuts in a vise while negotiating a paycheck they have earned...

At 8am each morning, the shop would have a little meeting where appointment repair orders were dished out... They tried to take some of my jobs away because it was Thursday and they wanted the money in the kitty by the weekend. The owner was so sure I couldn't do it he wanted to bet, I made him bet steaks for lunch for his entire crew, thinking it would help build the team up whatever way it went. At 7am the next morning I finished the last test drive and told them I was leaving for the weekend... That stupid dickhead didn't even show up on steak day, he had the car sales (small used lot) guy take care of it on a company card... we didn't accomplish much that Friday afternoon, mostly drank beer and talked about the owner.
 
Gut the interior and repair wiring and a motor or two on one of these with a 20 something list of electrical failures.
e320_3.jpg

Book times for R&r the interior was 20ish hours charged an hour for the electrical repair... a main splice with 7-8 wires coming together... somewhere under that floor and a rear roll bar issue and a seat belt handover motor (yes,it hands you the seat belt when the door closes).
640_p62_l.jpg

A hydro-locked engine for one of these... the insurance company cheaped out and got one from the wrong model... I had to swap everything but the long block including the timing cover,oilpan and V/C... a nice extra chunk of time for me, no the engine was not already out.
Just diagnosed and waiting for the junker to arrive.
001.jpg

Evaporator and head gasket on one of these... I had done so many of the inline six head gaskets due to oil leaks, my first MB dealer had a rule when I did one, if they sold the job at 4pm they could pickit up at noon the next day. About 10-12 hours for the head another 12-16 for the evap... we got about 6 for the dash pad alone, but they had a cracking problem and we did so many, another tech and myself would "drag race"... we had that down to about 45 minutes.

11.jpg

I believe I also had a power top issue on one of these old ones... flash codes through a special reader and a very complex mechanism... lots of guys wouldn't touch them... easy money once you figured them out. Tons of hydraulics and electrical switches... It was like the worlds most stupidly complex brake system... and less dirty(not much) to work on.
I am sure I did an oil change too... don't really remember that blur all these years later... it was a calculated bet... I am not really a gambler.
 
This is all very interesting, and great from the shop and tech's point of view. But what ever happened to customer service....? If I bring my new $25000.00 vehicle in to have a "funny noise" checked, and nothing is done and I'm charged $139.00...... I'll only be dumb once and not come back, for service OR a replacement vehicle. Tough to keep a shop full doing business like that.
It seems the customer should still be placed first before shop/flat rate. Perhaps it's an obsolete concept these days, but back in the day we took care of the customer.

I understand "flat rate". I made my living doing it for many years. I also worked as a service procedure development tech and established labor time studies. A good tech should easily beat flat rate after a couple of times through a procedure.
Like in any business, tools are a necessary investment and requires a heavy upfront outlay which tapers off as needed through out a techs career, which cab be 20-30 years.
I have been very disturbed to hear of dealers who skim labor from the techs... many don't let the techs into labor guides. I also have heard of some no longer paying for warranty diagnostics. Many factories have changed warranty diagnostics to straight time and require detailed time punches, the dealers out of laziness and fear of audits don't even bother to try in some shops.
I worked for one large chain that used matrix pricing on labor for cash pay... when I did a ten hour job they charged about 13... In a MB dealer with some of the big jobs making your paycheck, it does no good to run the customers off on those jobs.

I always thought it was a bit criminal that those dealers all charged the same for hat rotors as they did hub integrated... I also recognized that by charging an inconsistent price we would run off business. I benefited, but never liked that... I had one service manager who was bent against replacing rotors on the brake job... I stood up to him for the younger crowd on the issue. I also told him one day, I will put the rotors on for free if you sell them at cost... he never asked again.

Flat rate sucks for new techs, it never allows for a steady paycheck, but it does reward effort eventually. It is entirely necessary for a small business to be able to quote jobs to a customer.
In Florida a repair shop cannot by law deviate from an estimate by more than $50. A building contractor or other tradesman has no such liability and in fact if they choose to not pay their materials bill YOUR HOUSE gets the lien... even if you paid in full to the contractor.

I know their are other countries that don't use the flat rate system... I wonder how their laws work.
 
Last edited:
Boy did this one bring back memories. All are correct in saying a vocational school is the best raining. I had one teacher for Body & Fender who's main line was, "Any student who comes to class every day, and does the work, will pass at the end of the year" I got so good third year he brought in cars and I got paid to fix them. I came away with the confidence to repair just about anything, and when I became an instructor I never forgot the kindness and knowledge people put into me. And just like some others have stated, I wish my body had not taken the crap on me it has while the mind is still so sharp.
 
Back
Top