Vacuum advance for points distributer

[ALTOcal69]

I have a 66 Newport with 383 and points distributer. I converted to pertronix ignitor ii though. Still I'm pretty sure I need a working vacuum advance. All that's available that I can find are NOS for serious $$$... Where are they?

 

[Turboomni]

Here is my little saga. It could have a happy ending though and we should know this month.

Tuning up my Fury III

 

[CBODY67]

First thing is, these things ARE still around! Go back into rockauto and look up one for a 1975 Chrysler Newport 400. It's right there! Standard Motor Parts VC188. If I remember my specs for our '66 Newport 383 2bbl, the vac advance starts at 10"Hg, the VC188 is supposed to start at 8", so it'll keep the vacuum advance working a little longer when you lower the manifold vacuum under moderate acceleration. The VC187 starts advancing at 10.5" Hg, which is probably typical of the earlier 383 items, found under 1973 Chrysler Newport 400 listing. VC186 is found under 1972 Chrysler Newport 400. VC167 is for 1971 Chrysler Newport 383, 10.5" Hg vacuum advance starting point (interestingly, one of the Chrysler factory part numbers this item replaces is a 1968 pert number, but no 1968 Chrysler item is listed for a '68 Newport 383). VC168 vac adv starts at 12" HG, 1971 Dodge D100-300 383. VC173 vac adv starts at 7" Hg, 1971 Dodge D100-300 383.

Going into the Advance Auto Parts website . . . BWD brand (previously Borg-Warner): V189 for '71 Newport 383 V346 for '75 Newport 400
Same BWD V346 in O'Reilly Parts listing for '75 Newport 400

Prices DO vary between these part numbers, although they'll probably all work in the same place. There are also Airtex/Wells numbers for some of these same applications. These items are the plain vac adv cans, no electric solenoid.

In the vacuum advance cans, there are TWO things to be concerned with, other than if it holds vacuum. One is when the advance starts (vacuum level) and how much advance is in it (the length of the shaft's pull before it hits the limit stop. The second item can be matched to your existing can and the stop moved a little by use of a file to decrease the thickness of the stop. The first item (when it starts advancing) can sometimes be varied by using an Allen wrench in the vacuum can's nipple to alter the spring pressure against which the vacuum pulls the diaphragm.

On the 1969-71 model year B/RB engines, possibly the LA motors in a few cases, the vacuum advance unit had an electric solenoid on it to retard the spark at idle. If you're going to be doing an exact restoration, you'll need one for award points accumulation. If you're just wanting to drive the car, than a non-solenoid item can be used, as many were replaced with back then.

In ref to the "points distributor" spec, the distributor caps for the single point distributors are the same back to 1959 and up to the middle 1980s, points and factory electronic items. "Single Point" is significant as the dual point distributors were cast iron housings and were made by Prestolite.

Remember, too, that if A-1 Cardone and others are selling reman distributors, they have to be getting new vacuum advance cans somewhere. PLUS as Chrysler is still selling the Mopar Perf electronic ignition kits, THEY have to have a source for new cans, too. So, something is still out there without going to the NOS or repro vendors!

Regards,
CBODY67

 

[70bigblockdodge]

First thing is, these things ARE still around! Go back into rockauto and look up one for a 1975 Chrysler Newport 400. It's right there! Standard Motor Parts VC188. If I remember my specs for our '66 Newport 383 2bbl, the vac advance starts at 10"Hg, the VC188 is supposed to start at 8", so it'll keep the vacuum advance working a little longer when you lower the manifold vacuum under moderate acceleration. The VC187 starts advancing at 10.5" Hg, which is probably typical of the earlier 383 items, found under 1973 Chrysler Newport 400 listing. VC186 is found under 1972 Chrysler Newport 400. VC167 is for 1971 Chrysler Newport 383, 10.5" Hg vacuum advance starting point (interestingly, one of the Chrysler factory part numbers this item replaces is a 1968 pert number, but no 1968 Chrysler item is listed for a '68 Newport 383). VC168 vac adv starts at 12" HG, 1971 Dodge D100-300 383. VC173 vac adv starts at 7" Hg, 1971 Dodge D100-300 383.

Going into the Advance Auto Parts website . . . BWD brand (previously Borg-Warner): V189 for '71 Newport 383 V346 for '75 Newport 400
Same BWD V346 in O'Reilly Parts listing for '75 Newport 400

Prices DO vary between these part numbers, although they'll probably all work in the same place. There are also Airtex/Wells numbers for some of these same applications. These items are the plain vac adv cans, no electric solenoid.

In the vacuum advance cans, there are TWO things to be concerned with, other than if it holds vacuum. One is when the advance starts (vacuum level) and how much advance is in it (the length of the shaft's pull before it hits the limit stop. The second item can be matched to your existing can and the stop moved a little by use of a file to decrease the thickness of the stop. The first item (when it starts advancing) can sometimes be varied by using an Allen wrench in the vacuum can's nipple to alter the spring pressure against which the vacuum pulls the diaphragm.

On the 1969-71 model year B/RB engines, possibly the LA motors in a few cases, the vacuum advance unit had an electric solenoid on it to retard the spark at idle. If you're going to be doing an exact restoration, you'll need one for award points accumulation. If you're just wanting to drive the car, than a non-solenoid item can be used, as many were replaced with back then.

In ref to the "points distributor" spec, the distributor caps for the single point distributors are the same back to 1959 and up to the middle 1980s, points and factory electronic items. "Single Point" is significant as the dual point distributors were cast iron housings and were made by Prestolite.

Remember, too, that if A-1 Cardone and others are selling reman distributors, they have to be getting new vacuum advance cans somewhere. PLUS as Chrysler is still selling the Mopar Perf electronic ignition kits, THEY have to have a source for new cans, too. So, something is still out there without going to the NOS or repro vendors!

Regards,
CBODY67

The ones commonly available the direction the arm faces the electronic dist. and points inward. The arm in a points dist. points outward toward outer diameter of the housing. I modified my point distributor to accept the newer style canister that are available.
The modification is not hard and works the same. I can't do a link from my phone.
If someone wants to take care of that.

Sad to say but reman does not mean they are changing all the parts just the worn or broken. Core comes in vacuum advance canister test good it gets reused.

 

[CBODY67]

Thanks for that clarification and information. One reason I did my research is that I'm going to be needing some of these in the somewhat near future, myself, for different 383s. I'm more concerned about utility and cost, so repro and NOS are not in the mix. Plus, with anything NOS, it might not have ever been installed, but rubber items will still age sitting on the shelf, although not as fast as on a working vehicle. I put the MP electronic kit on my '67 Newport 383 4bbl and found some existing wiring issues after I did. But it's getting a little more expensive than it used to be. I suspect the "car" items' difference, year to year, are more related to the particular emissions standards and such, so the differences probably will not make that much actual difference in basic running and fuel economy. I do know now to play with the ignition timing if I need to, sometimes tweaking things to the edge of "trace rattle", but backing down slightly so it doesn't happen.

I also know that if a repro vendor has some, even in packaging with THEIR name on it, then they are getting them from somewhere as to have some built-up for them would be too cost prohibitive. Instead, use an existing-available item, possibly adjust the vacuum spring for the correct "start vacuum level", and go with it. BUT if you look at the Chrysler distributor numbers and/or vac can part numbers the aftermarket items cover, they are more "will fit" than a specific reproduction per se. In this case, "will fit" can cover several model years (determined by the factory part numbers) of vehicle applications.

If your phone has Bluetooth, you can possibly transfer it to your computer pictures folder. Might need a $20.00 dongle, though, for both of them to find and talk to each other.

CBODY67

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Thanks for that clarification and information. One reason I did my research is that I'm going to be needing some of these in the somewhat near future, myself, for different 383s. I'm more concerned about utility and cost, so repro and NOS are not in the mix. Plus, with anything NOS, it might not have ever been installed, but rubber items will still age sitting on the shelf, although not as fast as on a working vehicle. I put the MP electronic kit on my '67 Newport 383 4bbl and found some existing wiring issues after I did. But it's getting a little more expensive than it used to be. I suspect the "car" items' difference, year to year, are more related to the particular emissions standards and such, so the differences probably will not make that much actual difference in basic running and fuel economy. I do know now to play with the ignition timing if I need to, sometimes tweaking things to the edge of "trace rattle", but backing down slightly so it doesn't happen.

I also know that if a repro vendor has some, even in packaging with THEIR name on it, then they are getting them from somewhere as to have some built-up for them would be too cost prohibitive. Instead, use an existing-available item, possibly adjust the vacuum spring for the correct "start vacuum level", and go with it. BUT if you look at the Chrysler distributor numbers and/or vac can part numbers the aftermarket items cover, they are more "will fit" than a specific reproduction per se. In this case, "will fit" can cover several model years (determined by the factory part numbers) of vehicle applications.

If your phone has Bluetooth, you can possibly transfer it to your computer pictures folder. Might need a $20.00 dongle, though, for both of them to find and talk to each other.

CBODY67

I got sucked in on Rock Auto, the picture showed arm bent outward for 72 dist. but when it showed up here it was like all the others.
Napa said they could get it out of some store in BFE for $30 plus another $10-12 in shipping. That was my breaking point to modify the point dist.. Yeah I'm that cheap. LOL