Voyager 1 and 2 still alive!!!! 38,000 mph!

i'll post the consensus answer tonight .. see if anybody else wants to weigh in. When you see the answer it may make immediate sense. It took a while for me to get tho.

hint: think what's happening to the photons ("light") right on either side of the event horizon? The only side that matters is what you can "see" from the outside -- your buddy doesnt see anything while he's getting "spaghetti-fied" by gravity into the singularity.

and you cannot see his horrible fate past the event horizon because no light gets past the event horizon to the outside (that's why it looks black from the outside) due to the intense gravity...but you WILL "see" something happen to him before AND after he goes in.
 
amazinblue82 said:
You and your buddy are hotdoggin' in your stroked hemi spaceships, shooting at space junk, and listening to Van Halen .. loud. You decide to buzz the super--massive black hole at the center of the Milky Way, Sagittarius A*.

View attachment 280470 View attachment 280470
View attachment 280471

Your buddy gets a little to close to the event horizon, and gets drawn in and apparently crosses the boundary into the black hole. :(

You watched the whole thing from a safe distance. So, from your vantage point, what did you see happen?

This is a hard question actually. I did NOT get it. I almost still DONT get it, but there is a consensus around the answer.
Click to expand...
First, light coming from the ship will be increasingly redshifted as his ship approaches the black hole, so even before it reaches the event horizon you will have to use increasingly specialized equipment to "see" the ship. You will not actually get to see the moment that the ship crosses the event horizon because the light will be infinitely redshifted at that point, from your point of view.

Second, assuming the ship is heading nose-first toward the black hole, the force of gravity will be stronger at the front of the ship than at the back, increasingly so as the ship approaches the black hole. Before it even gets there, the ship and your buddy will probably be ripped apart, and all that would reach the event horizon would be a mass of elementary particles. (I say probably because it's theoretically possible for there to be a black hole of such huge size that the gravitational difference is still small enough at the event horizon that a ship could pass through it and still be intact at that distande from the singularity.)

Am I missing anything else @amazinblue82 ? Are you thinking of time dilation effects?
 
Sorry, ya lost me, last couple of Science Channel NASA/Space/How.the.Universe.Works type shows were all about a lot of "Maybes" & "What if's?".

Got a Black Hole show on deck to watch. I'll get around too it when I feel like my life needs a hour to disappear into a black hole. <yawn>

:lol:
 
Mike66Chryslers said:
First, light coming from the ship will be increasingly redshifted as his ship approaches the black hole, so even before it reaches the event horizon you will have to use increasingly specialized equipment to "see" the ship. You will not actually get to see the moment that the ship crosses the event horizon because the light will be infinitely redshifted at that point, from your point of view.

Second, assuming the ship is heading nose-first toward the black hole, the force of gravity will be stronger at the front of the ship than at the back, increasingly so as the ship approaches the black hole. Before it even gets there, the ship and your buddy will probably be ripped apart, and all that would reach the event horizon would be a mass of elementary particles. (I say probably because it's theoretically possible for there to be a black hole of such huge size that the gravitational difference is still small enough at the event horizon that a ship could pass through it and still be intact at that distande from the singularity.)

Am I missing anything else @amazinblue82 ? Are you thinking of time dilation effects?
Click to expand...

Wont have to wait. :)

That is the consensus answer -- in general terms and only via prediction since the center of the galaxy is 25k light years away (6,000,000,000,000 miles multiplied by 25,000) and we are centuries away from any technology that could take us there.

Your friend start to appear, from your vantage point, to be slowing down (extreme redshifting). And, he stops .. and is as motionless as a still photo. This is when he went through the event horizon boundary -- you cannot "see" him go through as Mike66 says so you must infer that he went in.

The last light you saw from him, is stuck right there, at that gravitational boundary where its velocity is exactly at the electromagnetic escape velocity from the singularity's pull.

Presumably, that image will stay right there, held in place .. until the black hole gets more massive and the event horizon expands accordingly, and then those photons get sucked in. And now all traces of your friend are gone.

no sir ..we did the time dilation effects of extreme gravity in earlier posts in this thread. though i love that stuff, and understand it well, i am staying away from that topic here in this thought exercise :)
 
MarPar said:
super massive like a black hole??

:rofl:
Click to expand...

yeah man ...really huge amounts of "crow" got consumed after Eddington and others confirmed Einsteins math with physical observatiin (a fascinating story in itself).

people are funny ..not "haha" funny but our denial can be a powerful thing. and our instinct in the face of our ignorance is to colon-dump on stuff. SMHH.

no matter if we are "smart or dumb", "rich or poor", man or woman, whatever ethnicity, religion, or national origin ..older i get tHe less i get people sometimes. :realcrazy:

shoot there are people today, alive now and in apparent sound mind, that believe the world is flat. Flat! Today, in the 21st century

:wtf:

"Old man" rant over :)

Back to the wonders of the Cosmos.
 
amazinblue82 said:
yeah man ...really huge amounts of "crow" got consumed after Eddington and others confirmed Einsteins math with physical observatiin (a fascinating story in itself).

people are funny ..not "haha" funny but our denial can be a powerful thing. and our instinct in the face of our ignorance is to colon-dump on stuff. SMHH.
Click to expand...

There is a famous saying to this effect: "Truth Passes Through Three Stages: First, It Is Ridiculed. Second, It Is Violently Opposed. Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident."

amazinblue82 said:
no matter if we are "smart or dumb", "rich or poor", man or woman, whatever ethnicity, religion, or national origin ..older i get tHe less i get people sometimes. :realcrazy:

shoot there are people today, alive now and in apparent sound mind, that believe the world is flat. Flat! Today, in the 21st century

:wtf:

"Old man" rant over :)

Back to the wonders of the Cosmos.
Click to expand...

I think part of the problem with the prevalence of weird conspiracy theories such as thinking the world is flat and denying that we actually went to the moon is that today we have such believable CGI that it's difficult to tell what is real and what isn't. People may assume incorrectly that this has always been the case. In 1969, it would have been technologically more difficult to fake photographs and video footage of the moon landing than it was to actually go there.

Another part of the problem is a growing distrust of authority figures has extended to scientific authorities as well. This may have started with the global warming debate, which has taken on an almost religious fervor, but spread to other aspects of science. I sometimes wonder if we're heading towards a reversal of the 18th century Enlightenment.
 
Another Spanish Inquisition, would send science back to the dark ages. Like the last time it happened. Ooooo black magic, witches, burn them at the stake
 
Here's something neat that I just learned. Last year NVidia, maker of 3D graphics chips, did a promotional stunt to show off their capabilities. They used CGI to debunk a conspiracy theory regarding one of the Apollo-11 photos. They made an extremely accurate CGI rendering of the scene from the photo and proved that the lighting of the original photo looks the way it should if the photo was actually taken on the moon.

https://www.history.com/news/lighting-simulation-offers-more-proof-of-moon-landing

Turing Recreates Scene of Iconic Lunar Landing | NVIDIA Blog
 
i have relatives ...older than me and but like me glued to the TV in July 1969 ..who died convinced we never went to the moon.

One nephew ..same age cohort as my daughters 30-32 ..is convinced its CGI. i knew this would happen when we caught him eatin paint chips in 1991.

seriously tho this kid is a EE from a good school and he is convinced we've had CGI-like skills at Area 51 (where the giant moonscape studio is located) since 50's. the aliens we are hiding there gave it to us.

i sent him the NVidia stuff and i am sure to spend an hour this weekend in debate with him:)

good stuff mike66 ...thx!
 
amazinblue82 said:
The last light you saw from him, is stuck right there, at that gravitational boundary where its velocity is exactly at the electromagnetic escape velocity from the singularity's pull.
Click to expand...

Wow fascinating stuff all of it. Thanks!
 
Status report Voyager 1 and 2 2019


Voyager 1 and 2 update, female documentary narrator. Updates the Voyagers instrument status, Communication status,


 
thanks chief. fascinating update.

all of it was great but last 30 seconds particularly thought-provoking.

These tiny little spacecraft could, in the endless vastness and cosmic timelessness of interstellar space, be the only evidence we ever existed.

On the other hand, could be as likely they will never been found by anybody.

Yeah, i think "somebody" is out there but thats a debate for another forum cuz the religion thing has to be tackled :)
 
amazinblue82 said:
Yeah, i think "somebody" is out there but thats a debate for another forum
Click to expand...

Yeah ,I too believe somebody is or was or will be out there, big problem is with all the billions of years that have passed and will pass we are just a flash in the pan ,like a flash bulb. What are the chances our minute flash of existence in all this vast amount of time will coincide with some other existence?
 
Yes I guess your right lol. I used flashbulb with the idea once it has flashed it will never flash again.
 
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