The Horvaths
Young man with a cowboy hat
Now I'm confused.
Working in the Automotive Field
- Thread starter The Horvaths
- Start date
Now I'm confused.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Thank you. I needed that. Sorry for the hijack of your serious post, tho.
Carry on.
Dobalovr
Being on the Cbody diet SUCKS!
Now I'm confused.
Trailer Tractor trailer or a tractor tractor trailer or I know...a semi trailer tractor truck??
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Ummm, Dylan. Just don't drive a truck for a living, OK?
The Horvaths
Young man with a cowboy hat
Got it.
BigAsAWhale
Member
I am a 30+ year dealer tech. If I had to do it over I would have finished college first. I think there are many more automotive opportunities available going that route. I would recommend avoiding dealers for the most part. You can definitely make a decent living eventually. The techs are typically some of the smartest, most capable people in the store. They are also some of the least appreciated. All the factory training is great. Once you are all trained you end up with the headache jobs that the manufacturer only wants to pay you .3 to diagnose. Most stores use the flat rate system which is good and bad. Mostly bad when it comes to warranty work. It can be very difficult to make a living on new cars.
If you really care about fixing cars I believe a quality independent shop is the way to go. Dealers tend to be more about volume and of course $$$, often not in the customers best interest if you get my drift.
For me, I love the challenge of finding and repairing issues with cars. Just wish I would have gone a different route than being in the trenches, maybe restoration like you mentioned. Don't get me wrong, it is a great field. Whatever you do, follow your interests, find a mentor, and take all the training you can get!
If you really care about fixing cars I believe a quality independent shop is the way to go. Dealers tend to be more about volume and of course $$$, often not in the customers best interest if you get my drift.
For me, I love the challenge of finding and repairing issues with cars. Just wish I would have gone a different route than being in the trenches, maybe restoration like you mentioned. Don't get me wrong, it is a great field. Whatever you do, follow your interests, find a mentor, and take all the training you can get!
BigFury
Well-Known Member
It looks to me like you're already doing what you're planning to do. You've got a great mentor in your father whose taught you well. I vote for a detailed thread, with pics, on your 512 build.
I am still in the early stages of my career as a tech, been working full time at a Chevy dealer for about the past year and a half, but heres what I can tell you:
BigAsAWhale touched on some very good points. As mentioned, do some job shadowing first. See what its like at dealer, independant shop, performance shop, and restoration shop to make the best decision and find the right fit for you. Starting out on flat rate will be very frustrating. I know I had a hard time adjusting to it at first and still struggle at times especially when we get a lot of warranty work. Be prepared for working 50 hours a week and not even making 40. Also, be prepared to spend ALOT of money on tools! 5-10 G's just for a tool box alone. If you are even remotely thinking about going the dealer route go to a school with a manufacturer specific program. I know Ford & Chrysler each have their own. I went through the GM program and half of my time in school was spent interning at the dealership. I received credits for school plus I got paid! By the time I graduated I was 80% GM master technician certified, which looks really good in the eyes of the dealer and I was guaranteed a job at the dealership I interned at.
Just from being a tech for a little while now, I already know I don't want to be doing this for the next 20-30 years. The longer you are in the field the more challenging it can be to get out considering all the money you have invested in tools, time/money spent in training, and knowlege you will obtain. I've also found that there can be alot of favoritism towards the more experienced techs in the shop. They often times get a lot more of the "gravy" jobs and the younger less experienced guys get more of the shitty work the older techs don't want. I like my job more than I dislike it but I wish I would've taken a buisiness major or something similar in addition to have as a "back up plan"/something to fall back on.
Hope this helps
BigAsAWhale touched on some very good points. As mentioned, do some job shadowing first. See what its like at dealer, independant shop, performance shop, and restoration shop to make the best decision and find the right fit for you. Starting out on flat rate will be very frustrating. I know I had a hard time adjusting to it at first and still struggle at times especially when we get a lot of warranty work. Be prepared for working 50 hours a week and not even making 40. Also, be prepared to spend ALOT of money on tools! 5-10 G's just for a tool box alone. If you are even remotely thinking about going the dealer route go to a school with a manufacturer specific program. I know Ford & Chrysler each have their own. I went through the GM program and half of my time in school was spent interning at the dealership. I received credits for school plus I got paid! By the time I graduated I was 80% GM master technician certified, which looks really good in the eyes of the dealer and I was guaranteed a job at the dealership I interned at.
Just from being a tech for a little while now, I already know I don't want to be doing this for the next 20-30 years. The longer you are in the field the more challenging it can be to get out considering all the money you have invested in tools, time/money spent in training, and knowlege you will obtain. I've also found that there can be alot of favoritism towards the more experienced techs in the shop. They often times get a lot more of the "gravy" jobs and the younger less experienced guys get more of the shitty work the older techs don't want. I like my job more than I dislike it but I wish I would've taken a buisiness major or something similar in addition to have as a "back up plan"/something to fall back on.
Hope this helps
Dobalovr
Being on the Cbody diet SUCKS!
I have 18 Dealer techs in my store who would disagree with you regarding working for a Dealer versus Joe's Garage however I will agree that the Manufacturer makes it difficult to make money doing nothing but warranty so it's up to the advisors and the techs to generate customer pay work. Sounds like you had a bad experience in a Dealer setting and I would be remiss if I didn't speak up and let Dylan know that not every Dealer operates that way. My top techs are all generating 140% plus hours on a flat rate system consistently.
A good service writer will go a loooong way.
I lived in both the aftermarket and the dealer worlds, I worked in the dealer for 3 different brands. You wouldn't want to try to match my career today, all the manufacturers I am aware of want you to have their factory training to be allowed to do warranty. If you can't do warranty work, you are on the bottom of the food chain and often they won't even consider hiring you for more than oil change stuff.
There is money and struggle to survive all over the industry. Often the same shop with six figure techs has poverty level techs too. No two dealerships are alike, but no two tire stores are either.
Perhaps the biggest mistake of my career was moving as often as I did. I had a strong reputation and many jobs were offered to me... when I became disillusioned with an employer it was entirely too easy to just go elsewhere. The downside was that I am a picky bastard and I would refuse to work for places when I felt things were not quite right in their shop. Had I stayed put longer, I would have reaped the benefits of brand experience a bit more... I did last long enough to achieve master status in my last brand... but it took 3 dealerships for me to go that long. I usually was worth about 2-3 years in a job, most of my former employers would have hired me back if I asked.
It is not an easy trade, as if any of them are... hamburger or steak, you will be able to eat. Ageing gracefully is another issue entirely. Maybe I should have gone to the phone company like my dad, but he spent the majority of his career dodging layoffs until he was retired early.
There is money and struggle to survive all over the industry. Often the same shop with six figure techs has poverty level techs too. No two dealerships are alike, but no two tire stores are either.
Perhaps the biggest mistake of my career was moving as often as I did. I had a strong reputation and many jobs were offered to me... when I became disillusioned with an employer it was entirely too easy to just go elsewhere. The downside was that I am a picky bastard and I would refuse to work for places when I felt things were not quite right in their shop. Had I stayed put longer, I would have reaped the benefits of brand experience a bit more... I did last long enough to achieve master status in my last brand... but it took 3 dealerships for me to go that long. I usually was worth about 2-3 years in a job, most of my former employers would have hired me back if I asked.
It is not an easy trade, as if any of them are... hamburger or steak, you will be able to eat. Ageing gracefully is another issue entirely. Maybe I should have gone to the phone company like my dad, but he spent the majority of his career dodging layoffs until he was retired early.
azblackhemi
Old Man with a Hat
Wow! This is one of the most useful, informative and on topic threads I've run across in a long time! Keep it coming guys.
I never worked in the auto repair trade, but I've known a lot of people that have.
I can give some advice though.... If you want to go to work for yourself, go take a couple basic business classes. I've known many good people that had a lot of talent and they couldn't figure out how to keep the doors open on their own place. Not knowing basic bookkeeping and not having the discipline to keep track of what's going on will kill a good business fast no matter how good you are with a wrench.
I can give some advice though.... If you want to go to work for yourself, go take a couple basic business classes. I've known many good people that had a lot of talent and they couldn't figure out how to keep the doors open on their own place. Not knowing basic bookkeeping and not having the discipline to keep track of what's going on will kill a good business fast no matter how good you are with a wrench.
Dobalovr
Being on the Cbody diet SUCKS!
Where were you guys when I was younger! Good advice all around. I did the College thing got the Business Degree and now make more than a lot of Engineers and some Lawyers I know but I would give it all back to be able to follow my passion which is the repair and restoration of our beloved automobiles. Do what you love and you will love what you do Dylan....the rest is just payin the bills.
65sporty
Old Man with a Hat
Go to school, I am sure you will do well because from what I have seen in your posts you have a natural ability. Any one can go to school and learn but those that possess that natural mechanical ability it is only enhanced with school. Learn as much as you can about troubleshooting. Brakes, water pumps and other mechanical repairs are easy. A lot of electrical repairs can be hard and time consuming.
The guy's have given a lot of great advice work hard and ask questions. Yes tools are expensive but you don't need that 10,000 dollar Snapon tool box starting out. I wish you the best of luck. My 18yr old was going to go to Lincoln Tech in Indy but now isn't sure of what he wants.
The guy's have given a lot of great advice work hard and ask questions. Yes tools are expensive but you don't need that 10,000 dollar Snapon tool box starting out. I wish you the best of luck. My 18yr old was going to go to Lincoln Tech in Indy but now isn't sure of what he wants.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Go to school and if you don't like it you can always go to truck driving school and in 5 weeks you can be out on the road aggravating me.
Sorry that's all the useless advice I have.
Sorry that's all the useless advice I have.
I hate everyoneover 30 40 50under5060.
And I wear dungarees.
Not jeans.
Not denims.
Effing DUNGAREES.
Let's see your collection of tie-dyed T-shirts, bell bottoms, platform shoes and your many nehru jackets. LOL!
mopar_4life
Well-Known Member
I know you mentioned in your earlier post that you perhaps were looking into restoration as a career. There is one school out in Kansas that most of the big name restoration companies recruit out of there. The School is McPherson college. It is a four year intensive program that teaches you every aspect of restoration and they allow you to work on your on personal cars for lots of the project. I have been considering, once I am done with the Army, going to a school like this. As a "retirement" career.....
It looks like a great program so if you haven't considered it check it out.
http://www.mcpherson.edu/autorestoration/
It looks like a great program so if you haven't considered it check it out.
http://www.mcpherson.edu/autorestoration/
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
For anyone else interested... One of the primary pieces of advice I gave to Dylan and would give to anyone with a more than passing interest in the mechanical side of this... Try a few ASE tests.
With a set of study guides, many enthusiastic hobbyists would be capable of passing. Many techs working in the field are unable to pass and unwilling to put forth the effort. In the end, they are not worth very much in many jobs, but in an industry with so few ways to build resume fodder... they are worth doing.
If you have managed the knowledge to pass A1-A8 you are ASE Master Certified, and BTW have accomplished much of what a trade school certificate would give you when job seeking in the aftermarket. Manufacturers training is an entirely different subject and required if you're going to be successful at the dealership... but the dealer can send you, it just takes years instead of months to complete it that way.
I recommend the dealer route to anyone who wants to go mechanical and make money... not because there isn't other money out there, but because the exposure to dealer level tools, technology and training will quickly show how hard this job is for the aftermarket tech to compete in. The folks who work in general aftermarket repairs really have to be quite good at figuring stuff out with very little information.
If you ever found the FSM to be lacking, that was as good as it got when the car was new... now imagine a car with 100 control modules (computers) that are in a private network and you can only access 2 or 3 of them with the aftermarket tool at your disposal.
Recruiting does go on at the bigger schools, because there is so much demand in this industry for entry level techs. The other side of that issue is there are many shops who try to keep as many low paid employees as they can and will not continue to pay a senior tech top hourly wages if he can no longer produce as expected. In reality the middle of the payscale is what most shops hope to train a tech into... the tech himself will have to make the rise to the top on his own.
Other than factory credentials... all other certificates are often no more valuable than this one...
http://tootsie.com/core/files/tootsie/uploads/files/Award.pdf
BTW... talk to those who are doing this for real before you believe what you see on tv.
With a set of study guides, many enthusiastic hobbyists would be capable of passing. Many techs working in the field are unable to pass and unwilling to put forth the effort. In the end, they are not worth very much in many jobs, but in an industry with so few ways to build resume fodder... they are worth doing.
If you have managed the knowledge to pass A1-A8 you are ASE Master Certified, and BTW have accomplished much of what a trade school certificate would give you when job seeking in the aftermarket. Manufacturers training is an entirely different subject and required if you're going to be successful at the dealership... but the dealer can send you, it just takes years instead of months to complete it that way.
I recommend the dealer route to anyone who wants to go mechanical and make money... not because there isn't other money out there, but because the exposure to dealer level tools, technology and training will quickly show how hard this job is for the aftermarket tech to compete in. The folks who work in general aftermarket repairs really have to be quite good at figuring stuff out with very little information.
If you ever found the FSM to be lacking, that was as good as it got when the car was new... now imagine a car with 100 control modules (computers) that are in a private network and you can only access 2 or 3 of them with the aftermarket tool at your disposal.
Recruiting does go on at the bigger schools, because there is so much demand in this industry for entry level techs. The other side of that issue is there are many shops who try to keep as many low paid employees as they can and will not continue to pay a senior tech top hourly wages if he can no longer produce as expected. In reality the middle of the payscale is what most shops hope to train a tech into... the tech himself will have to make the rise to the top on his own.
Other than factory credentials... all other certificates are often no more valuable than this one...
http://tootsie.com/core/files/tootsie/uploads/files/Award.pdf
BTW... talk to those who are doing this for real before you believe what you see on tv.
Similar threads
