Would Conversion to Dual Exhaust be Worthwhile?

This finally might be the year for me too. I will eventually pull the engine for a rebuild, but I don't feel like I am there yet. There is good thread out there on mufflers, so I bought my perceived choice, they have been on the shelf now for at least 2 years.

Good luck on your decision, but think of this, I have never heard someone say, "You know I wish I still had that single exhaust" :)
That's a good way to put it Mike.
 
Thank you but I did read that but it is still over my head. Intuitively any 2.5" exhaust or larger is already past the primary restriction of the factory manifolds. In my mind with a larger than factory exhaust pipe the only controlling factor wrt back pressure would be the mufflers. Of course I've had no training on pneumatic theory or otherwise to even remotely know what I'm talking about.
 
Thank you but I did read that but it is still over my head. Intuitively any 2.5" exhaust or larger is already past the primary restriction of the factory manifolds. In my mind with a larger than factory exhaust pipe the only controlling factor wrt back pressure would be the mufflers. Of course I've had no training on pneumatic theory or otherwise to even remotely know what I'm talking about.
FWIW, I was thinking in terms of Critter's truck story... considering how low in the RPM range I suspect he drives it... I never seem to get past 3k in mine, usually closer to 2k... I can see him losing something he uses torque-wise to the bigger exhaust.

I also agree 2.5" is likely overkill, but I wouldn't expect it to matter as much with the higher RPM's and bigger displacement of a BB Mopar.
 
You will have less exhaust restriction with a dual system. Gas mileage will usually go up some, I would expect about .7 to 1 mpg better with the two barrel carb. This is a de-tuned smog motor that is probably struggling to get 10-12 mpg so a 1 mpg increase would be significant. Later on, going to a 4 barrel carb, higher compression pistons and a better cam shaft will also help a lot. If you get the horsepower up with the previous modifications, going to a higher gear ratio will also help if your are looking for more economy. You can also play with the timing and mixture settings with the vehicle as is to see if you can get it to run better. The smog settings are not ideal for either power or economy. Be sure your heat riser is working properly as a stuck heat riser will cause the new exhaust to rot out quickly.

Dave

Cam specs on the '72 400 2bbl/4bbl were "wilder" than in the prior 383s, a little more lift and longer duration in order to help make the engine a better air pump. Increased overlap for a little more "internal EGR" during overlap at lower rpm, too.

Observed fuel economy differences between our '66 Newport 383 and the '72 Newport Royal 400 was about 1-1.5mpg less on the 400 16mpg highway vs 17mpg, for example, but it ran well too. Ignition timing specs were similar, too, once past about 1500rpm. After hearing of all of the "doom and gloom" about retarded timing and such, I was surprised when I finally checked the factory specs and found that things were still pretty much optimized, except during the lower rpm levels.

The Holley 2210 is subject to the airhorn deformation from over-torqueing the air cleaner wing nut, so a 4bbl is a good option to get away from that issue. The 2210, though, is a more efficient carb than other 2bbls which Chrysler used back then. When I retrofitted one to our '66 Newport (from the Stromberg WWC3-262, throttle response was better. The first time I drove home from college (about 290 miles) under the 55mph speed limit, I documented right at 20mpg @ that lower cruising speed.

The OEM cam specs for the 400/440 V-8s are more toward the prior 383/335 & 440/375 cam than the older 260/268 .425" lift cam. Adding an Edelbrock dual plane 4bbl, an Edelbrock AVS2 carb (now on sale at Summit Racing!), and a good undercar 2.25-2.50" exhaust system, ensuring the factory electronic ignition system is working "as designed", would make a nice performing vehicle . . . for what it is.

Rear axle ratio? It should already be the 2.76 or 2.71 ratio, which should yield about 28mph/1000rpm with the factory H78-15 or P225.75R-15 tire size. The rear axle ratio should be on a metal tag attached with a bolt on the center section of the axle. Figures for the 3.21 axle would be more like 25.5-26mph/1000 rpm with the same size tire.

If the trans kickdown linkage is still at the factory setting, take a small black plastic wire-tie and insert it into the back of the kickdown rod slot. This should raise part-throttle upshift speeds a few mph. Enough that the trans should get into high gear just prior to 29mph under light acceleration. This small change will make the car stay in the lower gear a bit longer so that when the upshift happens, the torque converter will be more "locked-up" (i.ee., "tight") such that any acceleration happens with "gear" rather than "on the converter". Better than trying to manually shift too. Part-throttle kickdown will happen a bit easier and last a bit longer, too. End result is more acceleration with less throttle input.

The normal adjustment is easy to get to, but the wire tie method works well and easier. PLUS it's reliable and durable. I spent time tweaking the adjustment on our '72 Newport 400 2bbl and my '70 Monaco 383 4bbl, but I discovered it on my '80 Newport 360 2bbl after they moved the adjustment to a place that wasn't easily accessible from the top. On the '66 Newport (threaded adjustment), two more turns of preload did the trick. NO trans durability issues as there was no large change of adjustment, just fine-tuning.

The '72s were nice cars. I like the styling of them more than the later '73s, personally. A GREAT instrument panel design!

CBODY67
 
Knowing that Chrysler built/designed "combination engines", where everything worked together for best results . . . cam, intake, carb, etc., they also seemed to have the most reasonable exhaust system designs, with regard to pipe sizings and such . . . for what was in front of them. GM designs that were really good were few and far between, plus each carline division having their own variable orientations. Fords were just plain restrictive, from the end of the cylinder head exhaust port to the end of the tail pipe, by observation . . . but there were a few exceptions on the exhaust manifold area.

2.5" pipes to the end of the car might be overkill for a stock-oriented daily-driven car, but they look much better than the chrome 2" "pea shooter" exhaust tips, to me. Although such might be period-correct for some of the '50s and early '60s cars.

On our '69 Chevy 350 half-ton pickup, the single pipe in the muffler was about 2.75". with a 2" single outlet. Some Pontiacs had larger exit pipes than the inlet pipes on their mufflers. Study an old Walker Exhaust catalog, check the muffler size specs, and you'll see lots of unusual things, as I did.

The dual exhaust industry was more oriented toward Fords and GMs, whose vehicles NEEDED dual exhaust to work better than what the factory designed. Presuming that '60s+ Chryslers were similar is not accurate, by my observations. And "image" counts for something, too.

Engines with more restrictive exhaust ports and more restrictive exhaust systems usually have factory cams with exhaust durations that are a little longer than other engines.

CBODY67
 
I need to replace the exhaust components of my 1972 Newport with a 400 cubic inch B-block with two barrel. I am musing on converting to dual exhaust. My goal is a small efficiency and power improvement. Would this be worthwhile, or just a waste of time and money?

At a future time, when the engine needs rebuilding, I will probably modify it internally with higher compression ratio and perhaps a different cam. I want to plan for that eventuality.
2 is better than 1 . get a tti system. you wont be sorry.
 
Cost/benefit might not be good, but knowing things are better counts for something. Use the 1972 IMPERIAL muffler and match the pipe sizes on it. Same low restriction as the Street Hemi muffler, but C-body quiet and size. When it comes time for the lh side, then duplicate the right side (mirror of the rh side on the lh side) and get the lead pipes built.

I got the '72 Imperial pipe (ball joint connector to muffler), muffler, rear pipe (over the axle), and "resonator replacement" pipe. All from Walter Exhaust, so it fit as it should have. Due to the pitted condition of the balljoint on the y-pipe, I needed to do some additional work there. Easy, painless, and nice. Never did get any baseline figures, but I know it's what I term "sewer pipe single" exhaust. Correct for the vehicle. Due to the rear quarter panel rear area differences, I had to get a muffler shop to bend the very rear pipe upward to clear the trailer hitch. No big deal.

ONE thing I like about the OEM supplier replacement parts is that the pipes and mufflers do tend to last much longer than any muffler shop items I've ever had. Looks right, hangs right and reliably, and lasts. Otherwise, some high heat black or silver paint before installation.

On the '67 Chrysler ONLY, the 383 4bbl had single exhaust. Plymouths and Dodges had duals for the same engine. 325 horsepower ratings for all.

CBODY67
Thanks for all this useful info. I don't have any interest in loud mufflers. I found a couple of suppliers that will construct complete exhaust systems to factory specs in STAINLESS STEEL. Tried one for my 65 Fury and it fit like a glove. Muffler places often use "universal" mufflers. These stainless jobs are not cheap, but imagine never having to replace a rusted out exhaust system again- and it is always shiny!
 
Thanks for all this useful info. I don't have any interest in loud mufflers. I found a couple of suppliers that will construct complete exhaust systems to factory specs in STAINLESS STEEL. Tried one for my 65 Fury and it fit like a glove. Muffler places often use "universal" mufflers. These stainless jobs are not cheap, but imagine never having to replace a rusted out exhaust system again- and it is always shiny!
Just don't get it in salt spray at the beach... you'll be disappointed fast...
 
I've had both single and dual exhaust systems custom built for C bodys by the same shop from the manifolds to tips. The cost of the duals was only 100$ more due to the labour involved in constructing the Y. Another benefit of duals is, if you ever have to drop the oil pan, you only have to remove the center link. With single you have to drop the exhaust. If you do choose to go the single route, have them install a union after the Y to make engine work easier.
 
I have a 383 4bbl so I needed duals, but from my experience 2 bbls work better with dual exhaust, too. I put a new 2.5" tti system under my Sport Fury last spring and I love it. I bet you will love it, too.
 
To echo some other opinions, what do you mean by "worthwhile?" I don't believe you'll see much of any benefit on MPG. Certainly less than 10%. That would take a long time to pay off at the pump. If you're looking for a financial reason, you're better off putting the money into your 401(k) and having more money to spend in your golden years.

There are, however, many ways to look at "worthwhile." How long does it take for new interior carpet to pay off at the pump? New paint? I paid a couple hundred dollars for NOS fabric to repair my driver's seat. That ain't never gonna pay off, but it was totally worthwhile. (okay, maybe it pays off when I sell the car, but realistically, there's no payoff.)

If you want to look at a cost/benefit analysis, I always look at the marginal cost of the decision. If you need to replace exhaust components anyway, how much is that going to cost, $300? How much is a full dual exhaust going to cost, $600-$800? So your marginal cost is $300-$500. Is there anything you can spend your $300-$500 on that will make you happier? If yes, then the dual exhaust is not worthwhile. Otherwise, go for it.
 
To echo some other opinions, what do you mean by "worthwhile?" I don't believe you'll see much of any benefit on MPG. Certainly less than 10%. That would take a long time to pay off at the pump. If you're looking for a financial reason, you're better off putting the money into your 401(k) and having more money to spend in your golden years.

There are, however, many ways to look at "worthwhile." How long does it take for new interior carpet to pay off at the pump? New paint? I paid a couple hundred dollars for NOS fabric to repair my driver's seat. That ain't never gonna pay off, but it was totally worthwhile. (okay, maybe it pays off when I sell the car, but realistically, there's no payoff.)

If you want to look at a cost/benefit analysis, I always look at the marginal cost of the decision. If you need to replace exhaust components anyway, how much is that going to cost, $300? How much is a full dual exhaust going to cost, $600-$800? So your marginal cost is $300-$500. Is there anything you can spend your $300-$500 on that will make you happier? If yes, then the dual exhaust is not worthwhile. Otherwise, go for it.

Quite an interesting analysis. Of course, you assume the disposable income saved on the dual conversion would end up invested, not blown on other non-essential things (radio control model steamboats, for example.) Truth be told, I have got enough investments already.

When does a guy spend too much on his pride and joy car? I have probably got $17,000 in my Ford Pinto restoration already- and I could never sell the car for that. How much is it worth to make something old and precious new again, and more efficient than when it rolled out of the factory?
 
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