Dang... I'm sorry... I got carried away again...
Technician Shortage...
- Thread starter cantflip
- Start date
traintech55
Senior Member
I'M not, I had a lot of fun over the years. And made damn good money at the same time.
Missed the edit... we were posting in unison.
I went to Boy's Tech and Trade school in Milwaukee from 1969-1973. First year was exploratory shop. Six weeks in each shop and then switch. I chose Plumbing and enjoyed it and went into the plumbing trade after completing high school. It was the best high school in the state back then. The school was huge. Two city blocks long and a city block wide. 4 stories and 5,000 students. With political correctness (even back in 1976) it's called Bradley Tech or some BS and they let girls in to the school. Now it's one of the worst schools in the state. Looking back I would of taken auto body or cabinet making....the school had World Class facilities and teachers back then! I am proud of that school!
History of Tech
History of Tech
66Newyorker
Active Member
Just my opinion, I worked in the automotive industry for the better side of 18 years. I got a good start at the high school I went to in northern Maine. We had an entire wing of the school for industrial arts, construction, welding, heavy equipment, auto repair and autobody. After high school I went to Wyo tech in 1981. I was an ASE master technician with L1 certification for most of my time. I was never without a job. I was able to support my family on one income. Never made big money. For a couple of years I was able to teach at the same high school I went to as instructor for special needs students and long term substitute. I have worked as a GM technician in 3 states. What I have seen is the guys who do the training and care about their job make the least amount of money. The guys who just do front ends and brakes without all the certifications make the most. And for as long as I can remember there has always been a shortage of trained automotive technicians. What has happened in this country is that sometime in the 90's the education system has gotten away from the trades. How to fix it I know not.
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Dobalovr
Being on the Cbody diet SUCKS!
Dealerships up here have gone to fixed menu pricing on most regular maintenance items such as relines and front end so the gravy train has come to an end in that regard. Pay plans now are multi-tiered based on type of work.
Customer Pay work full rate
Menu price work 70% full rate
Warranty 60% or as Cantflip said straight time with punch times. Lube rack all apprentice work was straight time but now is flat rate (too much unapplied time) same as the detail dept
Learning to run that clock is one of the most important, and least talked about/supported things for a new tech entering the field. My first decade was outside of the dealers, in the aftermarket it doesn't matter. On my last day in the dealer, I know I still left money on the table... I was productive, but nobody really takes much time to teach most of us how that clock works. I never lost a dime to an audit, which means I didn't pencil whip the repair order... but also indicates (at least to me) I didn't push the envelope enough too.
At the end of the 90's working on the 4 letter F word... my perfect car would often be a first generation taurus with an evap or heater core issue... around 12 hours labor that I could do in between other warranty repairs. A job I had mastered on cash pay usually got about 10 minutes of punch time and then the rest of my time punched through warranty jobs.
I got better with the clock on that job thanks to a couple small meetings with the warranty administrator. Most of the warranty administrators I worked with seemed to believe they were not allowed to train or even share information with the technicians... they worked for the dealership, not the factory, but if an audit came through and the loss was too great... they would get fired. Too many techs/advisors find they can make money at a particular job and kill that job... too many warranty claims causes the factory to notice and audits to come focused.
Brake and front end work has always been a place that a guy who really hustles can clock big hours. I have worked with some who were almost half my labor rate though as I always was in driveability... the reason I liked my time at MB so much was the electronics in the cars played into my curiosity and skillset. I also really liked getting to work the whole car, something that was a handicap in Chrysler and Ford dealers for me became a strength in the MB dealers.
I know a place in Pennsylvania that for a couple of days in July you can get your transmission replaced for free.
Sir, you must have missed the part of that where you have to do your own labor... but there will be some of us around to hand you tools if you like...
Sir, you must have missed the part of that where you have to do your own labor... but there will be some of us around to hand you tools if you like...
Minor details...
traintech55
Senior Member
It's OK, it seems like a lot of us on this page have walked down the same road at one time or another. Every area has its own rules in the shops weather it be union or non-union, Like you guys I have worked in both. Also you are correct also about if you cared about your work, it was hard to make good money on book time. I was lucky in the fact that if one of my side customers need major work, I would bring the car into the dealership, and then repair it under their clock. I also got many people to buy cars from them and when they needed repairs, they would insist the job went to me.
This thread is a very interesting and enjoyable read. Thanks for sharing all this behind the scenes insight and experience.
I have never used dealerships except for a few warranty issues. I always found me a Mom and Pops mechanic I trusted and used him for most work, and shopped around for tires, exhaust type stuff. I'm using my new trusted shop for tires too now and possibly exhaust when and if needed.
I've always understood that "the book" calls for x on hours but most times I find my small owner operators don't hold me to that, especially If i'm getting multiple things done ... i.e. brakes, tires, and shocks etc. It's already on the lift and the tires are off so not full price for all 3 type stuff.
And I have 4 - 5 vehicles so they get used to seeing me routinely and treat me right ... well so far.
I have never used dealerships except for a few warranty issues. I always found me a Mom and Pops mechanic I trusted and used him for most work, and shopped around for tires, exhaust type stuff. I'm using my new trusted shop for tires too now and possibly exhaust when and if needed.
I've always understood that "the book" calls for x on hours but most times I find my small owner operators don't hold me to that, especially If i'm getting multiple things done ... i.e. brakes, tires, and shocks etc. It's already on the lift and the tires are off so not full price for all 3 type stuff.
And I have 4 - 5 vehicles so they get used to seeing me routinely and treat me right ... well so far.
I do all of my own work except body and paint and wheel alignments.
I don't unless it's a classic car, and I haven't worked on one of those for a while. Your cars are all classic cars.
I don't have to do brake jobs, replace hubs on front wheel drive cars, suspension work, change electric fuel pumps, change oil, trans fluid etc so I don't. My cars going to he shop are my newish daily drivers and normally that work is done while I'm doing my job and picked up after I'm done working or wife or kids take them in.
I have no desire to work on daily drivers even if it's to change the oil. The only thing I change the oil and or a spark plug on these days is the lawnmowers.
I don't have to do brake jobs, replace hubs on front wheel drive cars, suspension work, change electric fuel pumps, change oil, trans fluid etc so I don't. My cars going to he shop are my newish daily drivers and normally that work is done while I'm doing my job and picked up after I'm done working or wife or kids take them in.
I have no desire to work on daily drivers even if it's to change the oil. The only thing I change the oil and or a spark plug on these days is the lawnmowers.
That is called "overlap" and it is sometimes listed in the time guide. I often would explain to the customers I spoke to (big jobs) IF I do these together I can give a break on the labor. I had to make that clear on the estimate too or a dumbass advisor would sell the work separately and still give the pricing. Helped lots of customers spreading their repairs out over time too.
Any business, but a small one especially, would NEED to try to keep a customer like you happy.
Your in the ugly part of the rust belt IMO... it wouldn't be as much fun dealing with DD when everything is rusted together. At least with my FL junk, the fasteners usually come off vs cut off.
One thing you need to do with those "Mom and Pop" places is toss them a bone once in a while.. Buy the tires from them even if you could have saved $20 by going to the giant tire store. The established shop that you trust is going to put the wheels back on right and they aren't going to try to upsell you on crap you don't need. They will appreciate your loyalty and it will come back to you.
That's why I go to them and have already bought a set of tires from them as I said in the post you responded to. I've probably spent $2K there the past year and a half.
When I get ready for tires for the Durango .. been putting that off .. I'll buy from him too.
Exactly!
65sporty
Old Man with a Hat
I work for a independent small shop, I get paid hourly and get my insurance. I get a monthly bonus based on the work I put out. I love doing the heavy jobs, engines, head gaskets, timing belts, but some of the smaller jobs you can do faster and make more. The worst is getting in some problem child that takes way to long to figure out and you feel guilty charging for all your time. I love the challenge of fixing what has been to multiple shops and other guy's couldn't fix but sometimes your best to just kick it to the curb.
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