probably need a distributor...recommendations?

swisherred

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I have a 67 newport with a 383. originally 2bbl converted to 4bbl. Im having issues with the distributor and might need a new one. Id like to stick with a points distributor, but will consider electronic. any recommendations? part numbers?

I think it may be worn..if I even think about loosening the bolt it runs funny. If I push on the cap at all it changes how it runs...I know the points are paper thin and im looking for new ones.
Can they be rebuilt or is it best to just replace it?
 
I have a 67 newport with a 383. originally 2bbl converted to 4bbl. Im having issues with the distributor and might need a new one. Id like to stick with a points distributor, but will consider electronic. any recommendations? part numbers?

I think it may be worn..if I even think about loosening the bolt it runs funny. If I push on the cap at all it changes how it runs...I know the points are paper thin and im looking for new ones.
Can they be rebuilt or is it best to just replace it?

It sounds like your distributor may have excessive end play, that would be the shaft having too much up and down motion. The fact that the car runs differently when pressing on the cap or loosening the retaining bolt points to this. Just for the heck of it, install new points and condenser, bend the rotor tab upward, check the cap to be sure the mounting clips are holding it tightly to the distributor and see if the car runs correctly. If you have excessive end play, the distributor shaft will probably re-bend the rotor tab fairly quickly to where the engine no longer runs properly. If you remove the distributor from the engine it should not have more that .002 free play, either up and down or side to side, use that as a guide. When removing the distributor, have the timing mark at TDC and note the positioning of the rotor before removal, this will simplify the re-installation. You can either have your existing unit rebuilt or buy yourself a reman or NOS unit. Philbin Electric does a really good job of correctly rebuilding the units. I do this because a lot of the new distributors are now made in China and most of them are crap. Same is true with many of the commercial rebuilds available at auto zone, car quest etc. Most are Cardone Remans and are also crap. www.philbingroup.com does quality rebuilds of you existing unit to OEM standards.

Dave
 
As I mentioned in another thread,go with the Summit racing kit.
Has everything to do Electronic conversion.
The distributor has a re-curve in it that is better for today's gas.
1966 CHRYSLER 300 Summit Racing® Electronic Mopar Distributors SUM-850004
SUM-850004_xl.jpg
 
You can do a Pertronix in your points distributor provided that it does not have excessive play in it.
It will need a recurve since it was designed to run at low initial timing with a weak spark.
Speaking from experience,the Pertronix does work very well with a recurve.
Without a recurve it is ping city.

A recurve will allow you to run 10-12 degrees initial compared to the low 0 or 5 degrees factory setting and limit the total mechanical advance and allow it to come in sooner.
A total of 34 38 degrees all in at 3000 RPM.
383's like lots of timing whether you have a stock or better than stock cam.
 
I hate to say it but I know nothing about recurving a distributor for todays gas...Ive been reading alot about it and it just gives me a headache....im certain this is the original distributor...and even the original points for that matter. Im not 100% sure it needs replacing, but I will remove it and check the end play. The car runs good except for when you try to drive it. The previous owner had the VA on the manifold port and it ran pretty good except for the heavy stall when getting off idle. Im trying to put things back the way they are supposed to be and now it just runs like crap. I set the timing to 12btc and it barely ran. When I started i checked and it was probably 2" past the gauge...full advance of course since it was on the manifold port. I cannot change the timing with it running. The moment I loosen the distributor bolt it chugs hard and quickly dies or shakes horribly. Im leaning towards end play, but will have to check it.
 
I hate to say it but I know nothing about recurving a distributor for todays gas...Ive been reading alot about it and it just gives me a headache....im certain this is the original distributor...and even the original points for that matter. Im not 100% sure it needs replacing, but I will remove it and check the end play. The car runs good except for when you try to drive it. The previous owner had the VA on the manifold port and it ran pretty good except for the heavy stall when getting off idle. Im trying to put things back the way they are supposed to be and now it just runs like crap. I set the timing to 12btc and it barely ran. When I started i checked and it was probably 2" past the gauge...full advance of course since it was on the manifold port. I cannot change the timing with it running. The moment I loosen the distributor bolt it chugs hard and quickly dies or shakes horribly. Im leaning towards end play, but will have to check it.

How many miles are on this engine? A couple of things to check. Try running the engine RPMs up and put your thumb over the hose that is hooked for throttle plate vacuum to the distributor, are you getting vacuum? Second, hook a length of clean vac hose to the vacuum advance on the distributor, if you put 3lbs or so of vacuum on the hose, does it hold at that level? If the advance diaphragm does not hold vacuum, it is defective and needs to be replaced.

Dave
 
How many miles are on this engine? A couple of things to check. Try running the engine RPMs up and put your thumb over the hose that is hooked for throttle plate vacuum to the distributor, are you getting vacuum? Second, hook a length of clean vac hose to the vacuum advance on the distributor, if you put 3lbs or so of vacuum on the hose, does it hold at that level? If the advance diaphragm does not hold vacuum, it is defective and needs to be replaced.

Dave
101k on the engine...the VA works with a vacuum pump. it holds vacuum and starts to come in at around 8" if I remember correctly. I have no issues getting vacuum. It peaks out at around 22" above 3k.
 
101k on the engine...the VA works with a vacuum pump. it holds vacuum and starts to come in at around 8" if I remember correctly. I have no issues getting vacuum. It peaks out at around 22" above 3k.

Might be a good time to check the timing chain. A loose chain can cause your engine timing to be erratic. Set the timing mark to TDC and have a helper with a breaker bar and socket rotate the crankshaft back and forth with the distributor cap off. You should have less than 15 degrees crank movement before the rotor moves on the back and forth motion. At 101k you are due for a new set of timing gears, but check the free play first. A loose timing chain will cause poor engine performance.

Dave
 
Might be a good time to check the timing chain. A loose chain can cause your engine timing to be erratic. Set the timing mark to TDC and have a helper with a breaker bar and socket rotate the crankshaft back and forth with the distributor cap off. You should have less than 15 degrees crank movement before the rotor moves on the back and forth motion. At 101k you are due for a new set of timing gears, but check the free play first. A loose timing chain will cause poor engine performance.

Dave
I will check the timing chain as well...but i can say that when it was running on the full advance port the timing mark never bounced...it held solid running at around 900rpm
 
As I mentioned in another thread,go with the Summit racing kit.
Has everything to do Electronic conversion.
The distributor has a re-curve in it that is better for today's gas.
1966 CHRYSLER 300 Summit Racing® Electronic Mopar Distributors SUM-850004
View attachment 241710
Ive come to trust your advice from the posts of yours I have read, and not to question you, but is there really a significant benefit to converting to electronic over points? Ive always run points and resisted electronic when it comes to my 70s choppers....Im not really worried about staying original, but more drive-ability and dependability on a vehicle that wont see the road on a regular basis.
 
Are points so bad?

A lot of pros and cons for each from the guys there.. In the end I eventually got a rebuilt points distributor for my 440 and went to my local auto parts store and got a few sets of Blue Streak points and Condensers and a few Ballast resistors , an old screwdriver and a set of feeler gauges and keep them in my trunk. I don't drag race and rarely roast the tires [actually tire lol] and after reacquainting my self to vac,mech advance and carb tuning [car was set up all wrong from base timing on up] I was so happy with how she ran I stayed with points. Change the points once a year. I can understand why electronic has it's advantages but there are a few with points too.
 
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I stayed with points, carry an extra set with a condenser in a zip lock in the glove box. If they crap out it is an easy fix by the side of the road. Changing a dead pick up module, not so much so. The better electronic systems are reliable if properly installed, no mechanical regulators, wire nuts or other cobbled together wiring. Electronics are more stable at higher RPMs (over 4000) so they are a must for race or performance engines. For everything else, my opinion is that the money is probably better spent elsewhere on the car. I know that others will disagree. If you drive this car 500 or so miles a year, you probably are not reving it over 4k RPMs. Decide what is cost effective for you, if you can properly set chopper points you can easily handle Mopar points.

Dave
 
If I have to replace the distributor I don't know that I want a Cardone unit...so that limits me...if I buy a used unit then I may run into the same wear issues...electronic costs more but is available. I have a recommendation for the electronic unit...anyone have one for a points unit?
 
Btw, I just replaced the voyage regulator with the new electronic version of the points style one. I think I read somewhere that was needed if going to electronic...don't know if that matters.
 
Ive come to trust your advice from the posts of yours I have read, and not to question you, but is there really a significant benefit to converting to electronic over points? Ive always run points and resisted electronic when it comes to my 70s choppers....Im not really worried about staying original, but more drive-ability and dependability on a vehicle that wont see the road on a regular basis.
you answered your own question. Im not really worried about staying original, but more drive-ability and dependability on a vehicle that wont see the road on a regular basis.
Points wear out,weak spark.
Electronic systems have a hotter spark which is a better burn more efficient and reduced emissions.
Better dwell angles,no wear items other than the distributor bushings.
more power and better MPG with today's quality corn swill called gas.
50 years ago gas was a more pure form of gas with higher octane.
Points will work but not as good.
2bbl 383 has a 9.2 compression ratio-perfect for today's gas.
Improving the ignition system will actually benefit your engine.
With a properly tuned carb,less wash down of unburned gas past the rings.
Hope this helps
 
I don't know that I want a Cardone unit...

That is understandable, before I knew of their reputation I ordered one from Autozone for 39 bucks and it was fine. Most guys said I just lucked out. Who knows. Although soon after install the vacuum advance started to leak and I used my old vacuum advance from the original distributor. Otherwise it has been fine,but from what I hear your results may vary.
 
cbarge and others have valid points [no pun intended] on the benefits of electronic ignition. The pertronics I seriously considered at one time as it fits a points dizzy ,runs 12 volts instead of a ballast reduced 6 to 7 volts and looks stock under the hood. Many guys swear by them too especially the base model.
 
Not sure why things change when you push on the cap or housing. I just know that the main wear area, actually two, on a points distributor are the cam lobes which open and close the points AND the shaft bushings in the distributor housing. The tension of the spring in the points puts a load on the cam lobe, which in turn puts a side load on the distributor shaft itself.

The first time I had the cap off of out '72 Newport with the factory electronic system on it (later build so it was optional at that time), I was amazed at the "no side play" when I checked that with the rotor as leverage. That's when I figured out the deal about the side loading of the points on the shaft causing the bushing wear.

Back when points were all we had, they usually needed replacing at about 12-15K miles (about a normal year's worth of driving, usually). In the point sets, there was a little capsule of cam lube that went on the rubbing block of the points, which contacted the cam lobe of the distributor shaft to help keep them from wearing. For various reasons, like capacitor health possibly, one side of the points would receive/transfer material from one side to the other ("pitting" it was called) and was a reason to change the points.

There are NO secrets in how to change the distributor advance springs in a Chrysler distributor. Just that they are "buried" inside the housing, rather than on top like a Delco/GM distributor has them. Two springs, one heavier one with a long loop on one end (high speed advance) and a smaller one with a shorter loop on the end (low speed advance). The distributors are easy to pull apart to get to them, just that the distributor needs to be out of the engine to do it easily and quickly.

Which carb is on the engine? In any event, there should be a ported and non-ported vacuum port, each. The vacuum advance should be on the ported one (with very little vacuum at hot base idle). They normally start advancing at about 8" Hg, as yours does. Max advance at about 15" Hg, as I recall.

The neat thing about points is that if there is enough juice in the battery to cause a spark between the points, the engine will probably start. With an electronic box, it will take more relative juice in the battery to work the box to get a spark to the plugs. IF that might matter.

Last time I checked, the Cardone new distributor was a pretty generic unit, covering applications from 1958 and newer. That means the advance curve will be "will fit" rather than exactly matching what the particular factory unit might have been. Same with the vacuum advance unit. So you start with the base timing your engine spec's at (12.5 degrees BTDC of thereabouts) and go from there. If it clatters, retard the timing a few degrees and retest. Start with a full tank of premium fuel, for general principles. If it doesn't clatter at 15 degrees BTDC, then try some mid-grade and see what happens. If you need to back the timing back to 12.5, no big deal as long as it runs well (other than cost).

At 101K miles on the engine, it's about 20K past time to be thinking about a timing chain! The upper sprocket had the plastic teeth overlay and that's where things started to come apart as teeth could fall off and such. Might be worth the time to remove the water pump housing and the front cover to check it out! If it's "metal", then you can put it back together as the sprocket and chain have already been done. An "insurance" inspection, of sorts.

The earlier distributor housings had a rubber o-ring under the flange to seal against oil getting out from that area. My '70 Monaco 383 had a harder plastic o-ring in a slot below the mounting flange. Either style will work, if you end up with a reman/new distributor.

Being that you're trying to fix what somebody else had "fixed at", it can be frustrating to see what they did and THEN to determine why. Hopefully, the "why" can be easy to deal with!

Keep us posted,
CBODY67
 
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