1961 Plymouth Info Needed

[Scotish]

Checked out a '61 Plymouth today and need some info before making a decision. My Mopar knowledge starts at 1962 & up, so a bit out of my norm. It's a semi rough project and is not a 2 door hardtop. I'm not looking to restore the car, but put it back on the road and drive it.

The original Poly engine and auto trans are intact, but the engine is seized up. What "bolt-in" engine options are doable for this car ? Will a LA or a Magnum series engine bolt in ? What would be needed to put a big block in it ? Engine mounts available ? Will a '65 cable shift trans bolt in place and will the '61 shift cables work with a '65 trans ? Any '65-up 8 3/4" axles close in dimensions or bolt in ?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks

 

[Brin Smith]

Checked out a '61 Plymouth today and need some info before making a decision. My Mopar knowledge starts at 1962 & up, so a bit out of my norm. It's a semi rough project and is not a 2 door hardtop. I'm not looking to restore the car, but put it back on the road and drive it.

The original Poly engine and auto trans are intact, but the engine is seized up. What "bolt-in" engine options are doable for this car ? Will a LA or a Magnum series engine bolt in ? What would be needed to put a big block in it ? Engine mounts available ? Will a '65 cable shift trans bolt in place and will the '61 shift cables work with a '65 trans ? Any '65-up 8 3/4" axles close in dimensions or bolt in ?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks

Imperial Services has the big block engine mounts and a shift cable set up to use the push button with the later 727 trans. You can if im not mistaken use a E body 8 3/4 rear end they bolt in. That way you can have better brakes and a E Brake. You can do the ScareBird disc conversion on the front I used one on my 62 worked good. On the rear end double check the spring perch width on the C body rear end. I think it is 46 inches like the E bodies. But have read somewhere that the 57- 63 are 45 1/2 inches on the perch width.

 

[Davea Lux]

The PDF below has the rear axle widths drum to drum.
The '61 Mopar still has the cast iron transmission, they will not mount to the later engines due a different crankshaft hub. If you want to use a later engine, you will need to find a later transmission also. I am thinking your best bet would be to find a donor car that still has intact running gear and move everything together. My choice would be running gear out of a 63-65 as these still have the cable shift. (Click on Mail 0086 to open) www.bigblockmopar.com has all of the rear axle measurements in the TECH section, click on rear axles.

Dave

 

[bluefury361]

The only "bolt in" engine with the 61 and prior trans in your car is another poly prior to 61. The torqueflight used an aluminum case starting in 62. The shift cable should work alright on a aluminum, (62-65), trans. The driveshaft will need to be modified and you will lose the trans mounted emergency brake feature. (No park on the 61).

I installed a 8 3/4 from a 68 Newport into my 61. It's a direct bolt in and the ratio was even the same. You gain the advantage of slip on brake drums and more obtainable brake parts.
Good luck with the project..... post pictures.
Will.

 

[Brin Smith]

Get a later model BB engine 383 400 440 and 727 trans. Get the Imperial Services engine mounts and shift cable set up so you can use your push buttons. They have trans mounts too. Get a later model 8 3/4. Disc brake the front and drive it. If you just want a driver. I have seen all the rear end charts out there. My 62 880 measured 60 3/4 hub to hub. I have seen one chart showed a 62 880 300 Newport 8 3/4 at 60.625 hub to hub. Thats only a 1/4 inch difference from what I got. Or 1/8 inch on each side. Also seen like I posted before. 46 inches perch to perch. Also seen 45 1/2 perch to perch. I did not measure mine so I can not confirm either measurement. Regardless of that you would just have to move perches.

 

[Scotish]

Thanks for the info guys. Still undecided if I want to dive into this or not.

I have a '65 Belvedere project in the garage and have been looking around for a "filler" old Mopar to drive until my Belvedere is done. Was hoping to find a quickie project to get on the road. The '61 sure is cool, but...

If I decide to pick it up, I'm really leaning towards doing a 360 LA or 360 Magnum swap.

 

[Renaissance Man]

Checked out a '61 Plymouth today and need some info before making a decision. My Mopar knowledge starts at 1962 & up, so a bit out of my norm. It's a semi rough project and is not a 2 door hardtop. I'm not looking to restore the car, but put it back on the road and drive it.

The original Poly engine and auto trans are intact, but the engine is seized up. What "bolt-in" engine options are doable for this car ? Will a LA or a Magnum series engine bolt in ? What would be needed to put a big block in it ? Engine mounts available ? Will a '65 cable shift trans bolt in place and will the '61 shift cables work with a '65 trans ? Any '65-up 8 3/4" axles close in dimensions or bolt in ?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks

A 1967 & 68 C body rear will work and perches will drop right onto your springs and accept the U joint. 'Floating power' motor mounts for those are available if you want to drop a BB into it. Kanter sells these, but are also available on eBay. No, the Transmissions changed in 62', as the earlier TF didn't use a flexplate, and it's a staggered 8 bolt pattern into the torque converter flange. Your BB options, should you wish to keep the present tranny are 59-61 361-413. If you do, you'll need to change bellhousings to mate to a BB. However, should you go with a later BB with 6 bolt crank, you CAN use the shifter cable from cars 62-64 (I'm not sure about 65 727s) to work with those year transmissions, but when you get the transmission, get the drive shaft also. The earlier cast iron torqueflight shaft won't work without major fabrication and balancing . The transmission info was passed onto me by a rebuilder, and the crank info I found out the hard way, but should've looked here first. You'll figure out the parking brake issue between the 61 and earlier VS the 62 and later, so if you go later, you may have to fabricate park cable solutions. MAKE SURE you have a good working bulb behind your parking brake warning lens in your dash!! Can't stress that enough. Make sure it works!! I have no knowledge of how to fit a LA or magnum engine/trans. into one, but having owned a 61' for 20+ years, I've experienced a fair amount of forward look pain. Know your rear end ratio, so you can figure speed ratios, as the 67-68 will be different. Good Luck!
PS: just how bad is that 318A?

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

A 1967 & 68 C body rear will work and perches will drop right onto your springs and accept the U joint. 'Floating power' motor mounts for those are available if you want to drop a BB into it. Kanter sells these, but are also available on eBay. No, the Transmissions changed in 62', as the earlier TF didn't use a flexplate, and it's a staggered 8 bolt pattern into the torque converter flange. Your BB options, should you wish to keep the present tranny are 59-61 361-413. If you do, you'll need to change bellhousings to mate to a BB. However, should you go with a later BB with 6 bolt crank, you CAN use the shifter cable from cars 62-64 (I'm not sure about 65 727s) to work with those year transmissions, but when you get the transmission, get the drive shaft also. The earlier cast iron torqueflight shaft won't work without major fabrication and balancing . The transmission info was passed onto me by a rebuilder, and the crank info I found out the hard way, but should've looked here first. You'll figure out the parking brake issue between the 61 and earlier VS the 62 and later, so if you go later, you may have to fabricate park cable solutions. MAKE SURE you have a good working bulb behind your parking brake warning lens in your dash!! Can't stress that enough. Make sure it works!! I have no knowledge of how to fit a LA or magnum engine/trans. into one, but having owned a 61' for 20+ years, I've experienced a fair amount of forward look pain. Know your rear end ratio, so you can figure speed ratios, as the 67-68 will be different. Good Luck!
PS: just how bad is that 318A?

With a cast iron block and when Mother back then waz still using cast iron ringz, HOW BAD IZ IT? BECOMEZ AH BOAT ANCHOR IN AH VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. Find ah '62-65 aluminum torque-flight like Will suggested and go big Block. You could do the same years with an A-body push button TF for the L size engine but that leavez you with a 906 transmission for bolt up and NOT the 727 TF. And the 360 magnum with the '61 Plymouth will still get you over 4,000 poundz curb weight so the 906 will definitely be the weak link. Go with a '65 TF and swap to a later wheel to wheel rear axle az mentioned above and find a slip joint for the new drive shaft that'll work with the '65 TF and re-hang the parking brake cables to both rear brake drums and parking brake lever on the kick panel because you've now gotten rid of the band Parking Brake and the dreaded trunion U-joint or how ever you spell that bloody U-joint. "68 C-body 727 rear mount will work with the '65 TF too. you probably will need the cross member from ah '68 C-Body too and some fabbing to your '61 cross member will be necessary, but now you're gettin' into some of Jer'z modification trickz Too, lol

 

[Renaissance Man]

BigBarneyCars, Couldn't he just keep the driveshaft hooked to the 65 727TF, should he find one? We have an A&I in Amarillo that will cut to length, weld, balance, and install U joints, AND guarantee against failure. I paid $115 for my 02' F250 shaft to be redone, including bulletproof parts and balancing, but it didn't have to be cut and welded. How far off could it be? Rebuild kits for the ball & trunion CV joints are available still, but I did have a driveline shop do exactly what you mentioned above for a 65' barracuda with a 904A, using a bolt on sliding spline mated to the front of the shaft, and never had another problem with it. However, given what time, energy, and money are going to be spent sourcing these old parts, I'm just wondering how hard it would be to have the original block fixed, or find another. What were the years for Polydomes? 56-67? There's a good article on these on The Hotrod network "Chrysler's Poly Head Engine". You could actually make one into a hemi, if you can find the right early heads from what this article says. Even some LA parts will fit it. No, it's not a BB, but I'd bet you could find a running 318 (or even a 354) poly motor cheaper than a running 61' 413. Coincidently, I have the bellhousing for the BB to Cast Iron Torqueflight hanging on my shop wall.

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

BigBarneyCars, Couldn't he just keep the driveshaft hooked to the 65 727TF, should he find one? We have an A&I in Amarillo that will cut to length, weld, balance, and install U joints, AND guarantee against failure. I paid $115 for my 02' F250 shaft to be redone, including bulletproof parts and balancing, but it didn't have to be cut and welded. How far off could it be? Rebuild kits for the ball & trunion CV joints are available still, but I did have a driveline shop do exactly what you mentioned above for a 65' barracuda with a 904A, using a bolt on sliding spline mated to the front of the shaft, and never had another problem with it. However, given what time, energy, and money are going to be spent sourcing these old parts, I'm just wondering how hard it would be to have the original block fixed, or find another. What were the years for Polydomes? 56-67? There's a good article on these on The Hotrod network "Chrysler's Poly Head Engine". You could actually make one into a hemi, if you can find the right early heads from what this article says. Even some LA parts will fit it. No, it's not a BB, but I'd bet you could find a running 318 (or even a 354) poly motor cheaper than a running 61' 413. Coincidently, I have the bellhousing for the BB to Cast Iron Torqueflight hanging on my shop wall.

Yes you could do what you say R-Man but try finding a shop anywhere today that haz the where-with-all to rebuild a trunion joint properly, balance it, and get the boot on without tearing it? One of the very few of Mothers ideaz that fortunately died an early death along with the drum band brake on the tail of those early 727s. That's why I suggested the swap to drum parking brake with the late '60s drive axle swap along with the '65 727 because the drum is already gone on the '65 tail shaft. BTW, ALL the late B-150 and B-1500 maxi parking brake cable set up are a drop in when you do that. Only thing you need to do iz measure and cut the cable where you attach it to the parking brake lever on the driverz kick panel and either swage a new ball on the end of it or braze it to the original ball. BTWII, Part of the fun I encountered when I updated MY '61 so what I'm suggesting haz been tried and true, not speculation, Jer

 

[Scotish]

Lots of good info guys and thank you very much. I did find a "filler" car and it wasn't the '61. I decided against it because of other issues...no title, no rear side glass, etc. I did buy a '65 Valiant that should be a quick & easy project to get on the road.

 

[Renaissance Man]

Oh yeah....Muuuch easier! I just traded a running 2 door post V200 for partial on a body shop bill towards a 62 T bird. We had a 64 growing up, and these little cars are great. The 64s & 65s are my favorite Valiants. You still get a ball and trunion joint with these though, I think.
The trunion joint doesn't have to be a hassle. You never take it fully apart! Cut the old boot off, and heat up the new one in some hot water until it's pliable. Then stretch it around the pin (after removing rollers and their respective needle bearings) and out the bottom of the 'bell' until it's all the way out. Then, attach the respective 'hose' clamps, pack the bearings, reinstall rollers, then pack the whole thing with axle grease as full as you can before putting the paper gasket on the metal cover and securing it to the 'bell' by carefully folding the tabs down around the lip. Once that's done, run the bolts back up to the output shaft flange and torque sequence. Always a good idea to replace the rear U joint at this point. Electrical tape it before shooting it full of grease, then mount it up before pulling tape off. Boom! You're done!

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

Ah bit more from my memory R-Man. My '63 V-200 waz push button 904 W/ parking lever on the right side of the buttons that operated a parking sprag that went into the bottom of the 904 to lock into a notch in the main shaft. The trunion was also replaced by a slip joint at the entrance of the tail shaft. '64 waz probably the same setup. Not sure what Mother did in '65 but the push button shift went away that year. I added air shocks on that little puppy and used it for collecting several complete 440 engines back in the early '80. 90lbs of air in the shocks, 1/2 plywood for support in the trunk over the tank, remove the 4 bolts from the hingez and slide the trunk lid in the back floor between the seats, and have the bone yard worker drop another one in, hit the D button and drive on home and the little V-200 wouldn't even squat. Yard guyz mouths would drop open and they'd just scratch their headz when I'd drive off, lol. Happy Trails, Jer