commando1
Old Man with a Hat
So, you put the the two kids of the owner of the plating shop through college...
1969 Imperial progress thread
- Thread starter vdk2010
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Pretty much, yes. ;) But the result is well worth it imo.
LeBaron1973
Old Man with a Hat
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Indeed it is as you found the right shop to do the job, got a quality job, and more importantly got all parts back.
Now what's next- paint, upholstery, wiring, engine- driving.
The car is indeed already at the painter. Brought it there on Monday!
The painter told me we have a problem, because for some reason, the oem mixture for EM9 is only available for water based paints... And I don't want that.
So tomorrow, I have a meeting with the painter and a salesman from the paint manufacturer to see if we can find the correct color as conventional paint in his sample case.
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An education is vey important.
Ok, I need some help, good ideas and opinions please.
I ordered a new set of torsion bars 6 month ago. FirmFeel contacted me two days ago asking:
"We have started major torsion bar production, yours included.
Do you have any tolerances for length?
What is the max length or minimum length that can be achieved?"
I never thought torsion bar fitment would be an issue because everything is back together like it was...
But I told FirmFeel to get back to them with exact measurements of my stock torsion bars and my Frame.
That's where my headache started...
Fully installed, the left Torsion Bar is 1cm deep in the hex of the crossmember, the right side is flush with the end of the hex portion of the crossmember, so that I can't even install the spring clip...
First I thought it's K-Member placement, because the gaps between the Stub frame and the K-Member are all different on all four corners of the K-Member. But measurements from the front of the K-Member to the stub Frame confirm general squareness and correct install of the K-Member.
The only thing I can imagine to be wrong are the Rubber Isolators on the back of the stub frame.
There is about a 4mm difference left to right... Not much, but maybe enough?
Does anyone has any good ideas where the problem is and how to fix it?
Is there anything I don't see and/or consider?
I thought about replacing the rubber with steel blocks to get everything straight?!
I ordered a new set of torsion bars 6 month ago. FirmFeel contacted me two days ago asking:
"We have started major torsion bar production, yours included.
Do you have any tolerances for length?
What is the max length or minimum length that can be achieved?"
I never thought torsion bar fitment would be an issue because everything is back together like it was...
But I told FirmFeel to get back to them with exact measurements of my stock torsion bars and my Frame.
That's where my headache started...
Fully installed, the left Torsion Bar is 1cm deep in the hex of the crossmember, the right side is flush with the end of the hex portion of the crossmember, so that I can't even install the spring clip...
First I thought it's K-Member placement, because the gaps between the Stub frame and the K-Member are all different on all four corners of the K-Member. But measurements from the front of the K-Member to the stub Frame confirm general squareness and correct install of the K-Member.
The only thing I can imagine to be wrong are the Rubber Isolators on the back of the stub frame.
There is about a 4mm difference left to right... Not much, but maybe enough?
Does anyone has any good ideas where the problem is and how to fix it?
Is there anything I don't see and/or consider?
I thought about replacing the rubber with steel blocks to get everything straight?!
65sporty
Old Man with a Hat
I have no solution for you, but I do enjoy watching your progress and I am sure you will get it figured out
MrMoparCHP
Old Man with a Hat
Shim the mounts?
Alan
Alan
So….. your saying the original ones no longer fit????
My first thought is to check the stub frame for squareness. Look in your FSM for location, but simple diagonal measurements are going to tell you if you are OK. It may have gotten tweaked in handling.
The other thought is about the isolators not being the same height. That is a little concerning. Are they the same so you could switch them side to side? I assume that they are replacements.
I could do that, but there has to be another problem somethere causing that. I would rather find the problem and fix it then working around it!
Yes, correct. At least the right one does not.
I don't think that is the issue here.
It could be the frame, indeed, I never thought it could be warped. Maybe it's twisted or not square..
That would be a little catastrophe tho...
I will check the frame! In the FSM is a picture with all frame measurements.
The isolators are the original ones! Just dressed up. And they are definitely part of the problem since they are not equal anymore due to their age.
I will look into rebuilding them. Either with steel blocks or maybe poly urethane. I don't care much about their dampening capabilities anyway.
But I need a accurate height measurement be build new ones.
I went with poly for the k member/body mounts on my 73 roadrunner (very similar mounting system and isolators to the imperial for that year) and have regretted it ever since.
That the originals don’t fit back in means something has changed. Keep measuring. Either the rear cross member or the k frame is out of its original position.
you say it’s 1cm off? Lower control arm bushing is same for both sides? Are they both in the same place relative to the lower arm?
Another thought is if the t-bar is seated completely in the LCA. Perhaps a measurement off the LCA to the end of the t-bar might be good to do.
You may have some sort of "stack up" of issues too. The isolators may be some of it, the frame could have gotten tweaked during its past driving history and once it was unbolted, it relaxed into being out of square. Possibly tweaked during restoration too. Add in some manufacturing tolerances and there you have it.
I don't think it's insurmountable. First some measurements.
You may have some sort of "stack up" of issues too. The isolators may be some of it, the frame could have gotten tweaked during its past driving history and once it was unbolted, it relaxed into being out of square. Possibly tweaked during restoration too. Add in some manufacturing tolerances and there you have it.
I don't think it's insurmountable. First some measurements.
The Stub Frame itself appears to be straight! The complete front to back measurement is off by ~1cm compared to the numbers in the FSM, but it's consistent left to right. So I guess that's ok.
Next I measured all the bolted on parts to check for deviations. I chose the rear bolt holes for the upper control arm brackets on the stub frame and measured the distance to the rear of the frame. It's off by 3mm (.12"). The FSM says everything under 1/4 Inch is ok...
The Rear Torsion Bar Crossmember to frame measurement (Rubber Isolator height) left to right side is off by 3mm (.12").
And last but not least, the factory Crossmember itself is not 100% accurate. The hex inserts in the crossmember are not welded in exactly.
I measured from top of the angle iron to the surface of the crossmember. The left side measures 1,85cm (.73"), the right side only 1,62cm (.63"). Which is another 2,3mm (.10") difference.
My assumption is, that all these little deviations add up to the differences left to right that I face right now.
I think, the only thing I can do is changing the Rubber Isolators to achieve a situation where everything will fit back together.
The lower control arm bushings are both new parts from Rare Parts, pressed into the control arms completely, and the pivot shaft is pressed in all the way as well. I checked that.
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