2bbl carb stall out - problem solved

[MonacoBlue]

I actively retrofitted a 60's Carter 2BBL anytime I got near the Holley Mr. Coffee percolator carb, it's an unsafe carburator, and the TQ isn't far behind. If I need a big carb, Carter AFB/Edelbrock or Carter AVS.

Why do you say it is unsafe? Fire hazard?

 

[Loadrunner]

Yes, puking gas right out the top in summer heat stalling/or flooding situations.

The TQ was trying to adress this with the phenolic bowl, to keep the fuel cooler.

I found the big Carter 2bbl to be very reliable. The carb never caused any trouble on 383's, in fact, what a mad powerhouse a 3832bbl is, because of the intake velocity.

This is that carb for my '70 E20 4x4 383 4sp Braden 10,000lb PTO winch ex Dept of Game rig.

 

[MonacoBlue]

Yes, puking gas right out the top in summer heat stalling/or flooding situations.

The TQ was trying to adress this with the phenolic bowl, to keep the fuel cooler.

I found the big Carter 2bbl to be very reliable. The carb never caused any trouble on 383's, in fact, what a mad powerhouse a 3832bbl is, because of the intake velocity.

This is that carb for my '70 E20 4x4 383 4sp Braden 10,000lb PTO winch ex Dept of Game rig.

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What model Carter is that and is it a straight bolt on? Availability?

 

[Loadrunner]

Carter BBD. Used for years before the junk Holley carb. An example of how progress generally sucks.

Back when I was going to Automotive Technology 1988-90 I drove a '71 Satellite Sebring 2Dr with 383 2bbl. What an effin tire roaster that car was, just plain bad@ss. One night, one of the popular rich kids with the cheerleader GF took us out in his '71 455 GTO, 5 of us total. Maybe the other kids in the car were impressed, but I wasn't and I says to O'Dell the driver, lets go to my house and hop in my Satellite, he didn't want to but when I said I could burn rubber like unlimited, him being a Mopar hatin GM dude, we went over there, we all got in the Satellite and I blew all of their little GM minds, that 383 would just redline for blocks, and this is with a Carter BBD 2bbl.

Great intake velocity and night air, maximizing volumetric efficiency.

The neatest thing I always took for granted is that you could go out and wail on a Mopar like that, and it would be fine. Chevys blew pistons, got rod knocks, in one night. I remember tooling around with dude on a hopped up Chevy Van one night, got it stuck on a dirt road (he driving too fast drunk) spun out a bunch, got it out, raced a few people, went home. Next morning his wife comes back in the house screaming "What the fk do you do to the van? when she went out and started it, the engine had a loud rod knock.

 

[saforwardlook]

I have owned and driven 5 Chrysler products with both the 360s and 383/400s with both 2 bbl Carters and 2 bbl Holleys. Say what you want about the Carter 2 bbls but I will take a Holley 2 bbl that is running correctly over them in terms of crisp driveability and responsive off the line performance and even better warm up driveability any day. Find or make a "bridge kit" that Chrysler put out as a field fix to keep the air horns from warping on the 2 bbls due to over tightening the air cleaners and you will be good for a very long and rewarding service life.

I worked in Chrysler's fuel systems lab in Highland Park, Michigan in the early 70s and drove everything they made and the Holley's were hands down better in all respects of driveability but they didn't stay that way due to warping problems with cheap casting materials. The fix for the Holley 2 bbls was effective but there really was no fix for their 4bbls but to get a new one or these days you can get a modern Holley 4 bbl that will be fine or an Edelbrock AVSII.

 

[MonacoBlue]

Carter BBD. Used for years before the junk Holley carb. An example of how progress generally sucks.

View attachment 586436

Back when I was going to Automotive Technology 1988-90 I drove a '71 Satellite Sebring 2Dr with 383 2bbl. What an effin tire roaster that car was, just plain bad@ss. One night, one of the popular rich kids with the cheerleader GF took us out in his '71 455 GTO, 5 of us total. Maybe the other kids in the car were impressed, but I wasn't and I says to O'Dell the driver, lets go to my house and hop in my Satellite, he didn't want to but when I said I could burn rubber like unlimited, him being a Mopar hatin GM dude, we went over there, we all got in the Satellite and I blew all of their little GM minds, that 383 would just redline for blocks, and this is with a Carter BBD 2bbl.

Great intake velocity and night air, maximizing volumetric efficiency.

The neatest thing I always took for granted is that you could go out and wail on a Mopar like that, and it would be fine. Chevys blew pistons, got rod knocks, in one night. I remember tooling around with dude on a hopped up Chevy Van one night, got it stuck on a dirt road (he driving too fast drunk) spun out a bunch, got it out, raced a few people, went home. Next morning his wife comes back in the house screaming "What the fk do you do to the van? when she went out and started it, the engine had a loud rod knock.

Thanks for the info!

 

[MonacoBlue]

I have owned and driven 5 Chrysler products with both the 360s and 383/400s with both 2 bbl Carters and 2 bbl Holleys. Say what you want about the Carter 2 bbls but I will take a Holley 2 bbl that is running correctly over them in terms of crisp driveability and responsive off the line performance and even better warm up driveability any day. Find or make a "bridge kit" that Chrysler put out as a field fix to keep the air horns from warping on the 2 bbls due to over tightening the air cleaners and you will be good for a very long and rewarding service life.

I worked in Chrysler's fuel systems lab in Highland Park, Michigan in the early 70s and drove everything they made and the Holley's were hands down better in all respects of driveability but they didn't stay that way due to warping problems with cheap casting materials. The fix for the Holley 2 bbls was effective but there really was no fix for their 4bbls but to get a new one or these days you can get a modern Holley 4 bbl that will be fine or an Edelbrock AVSII.

Hey Steve - do you happen to have a graphic of that bridge kit? I just wonder if I could fabricate something, if need be.

 

[saforwardlook]

Hey Steve - do you happen to have a graphic of that bridge kit? I just wonder if I could fabricate something, if need be.

Yes, I will get one in the next day or two.

 

[MonacoBlue]

What is the cfm rating on the Holley? I am curious. I’ve looked online, I see numbers ranging from 350-500 cfm.

 

[saforwardlook]

What is the cfm rating on the Holley? I am curious. I’ve looked online, I see numbers ranging from 350-500 cfm.

Its been a long time but my recollection is that the 2210 Holley 2 bbl carburetor was rated at 350 CFM. Plenty of folks think that higher CFM carburetors for a given engine size application deliver better performance but that is only the reality under high output situations. When driving around town or at lower speeds, one wants a carb sized to deliver the best performance under most driving conditions. The 2210 2 bbl used on the 360s were sized really nicely for very crisp and responsive lower speed acceleration and off the line performance. That is where the Holley's were at their best compared to the BBDs of that period that lacked that nice feel comparatively especially at non-WOT accelerations.

 

[Loadrunner]

I drove one that worked for a while about 20 years ago, here it is now. Had an awful gutless/gas guzzling 360 transplant, not Chrysler's best work all the way around. Got tired of it, parked it next to the barn and started cannibalizing it. Has a good 4:10 DANA locking diff. The engine is actually a better early 360 from the good years, '71-73.

 

[Gerald Morris]

RD Autoline has a lot of employee turnover from what I gleaned from talking with their tech representative many times. The 2210 carburetor problem is well known to their chief tech guy but many of the new techs often miss flatening the air horn during "rebuilding" and that is why when I send mine to them to be fixed, I include a note with the carburetor to be sure the air horn is made flat again or they may well miss it and have in a couple of cases. When rebuilt correctly they run as designed.

The reality is that the 2210 is a good running carburetor when it is serviced right and the wing nut issue is not forgotten. I have that carburetor on 2 of my vehicles and they run very well when rebuilt correctly.

I believe the "accepted procedure" for flattening air horns involves placing them in an oven, and pressing them back true. Given my Stromberg WWC collection, I might get ambitious and try this with one some day.

Not sure of Autoline's employee literacy theze daze. Better include a USB thumb drive w an audio recording of some body loudly shouting to attend to that air horn.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Damn! I didn't think of that before mine went into county metal recycling.

Get a Bigger Hammer.....

 

[Gerald Morris]

View attachment 586103
I can fix everything that's annoying about this carburator with one well aimed blow ;[]

Bigger Hammer, more satisfaction here.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Just wanted to post about a stall out problem I’d been having on a 73 Monaco 400 v8 2bbl (rebuilt from Autoline). Car would start fine and run for about 5 minutes, but as soon as it was warmed up, it would stall out.

I swapped out the carb with a $50 eBay replacement carb today, and amazingly it fixed the problem. Got rid of flat spot under acceleration also, and it idles great now. I suspect either there is dirt in the old Autoline carb or, as one member has suggested, the air horn is warped and was not drawing adequate vacuum to pull fuel through the venturi’s. I will likely take it apart and see if anything obvious is visible. I’ll post pics, if anything interesting.

I've been blessed with this approach a few times. eBay is a crap shoot, for sure, but on carbs it has gone better than not for me. Happy you won a throw here too.

 

[MonacoBlue]

I've been blessed with this approach a few times. eBay is a crap shoot, for sure, but on carbs it has gone better than not for me. Happy you won a throw here too.

Yes. More often than not when I venture into parts unknown like a carb rebuild, Mr. Murphy is my companion and I find a way to mess up. I’m learning when to stop and not go forth where angels fear to tread. All the little bits and pieces came together on this activity however. I am trying to drive the car more frequently now to keep the gas fresh and flowing.

 

[MonacoBlue]

I drove one that worked for a while about 20 years ago, here it is now. Had an awful gutless/gas guzzling 360 transplant, not Chrysler's best work all the way around. Got tired of it, parked it next to the barn and started cannibalizing it. Has a good 4:10 DANA locking diff. The engine is actually a better early 360 from the good years, '71-73.

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That’s a cool looking - pickup? - got a better shot of it?

 

[saforwardlook]

Yes, I will get one in the next day or two.

Here are some photos of the bridge kit. I think it is pretty straightforward how this kit provided extra support for the stud holding the air cleaner by adding the two new, longer screws to firmly hold the air cleaner to the base of the carburetor via the bridge instead that is much stronger than using the airhorn for the mounting the air cleaner stud (note that the threaded stud that holds the air cleaner in place is part of the "bridge" that goes across the body of the carburetor and secures the air cleaner rather than such a stud mounted on the weaker air horn as in the original design). I did not tighten the screws of the bridge kit in these photos since I will be taking the bridge off again when I rebuild this carburetor for use on one of my 360s.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

 

[Loadrunner]

That’s a cool looking - pickup? - got a better shot of it?

'66 D200 possibly ex Great Northern railroad rig, brass inventory tag on the core support.

And the '66 Monaco 383 w/AC rad that came out of that truck, which I had rebuilt, and then almost a year later realized it would fit my truck with missing rad correctly if I switched ears from a truck big block rad, and I just happened to have that rad, and a swap at the rad shop and this is after nearly 2 years without a rad under the hood of this truck, and it started up on at 1st touch of the key. Rebuilt 318, shuts off just as a fast, tight.

Now with proper hoses, make that a 3 year project.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Here are some photos of the bridge kit. I think it is pretty straightforward how this kit provided extra support for the stud holding the air cleaner by adding the two new, longer screws to firmly hold the air cleaner to the base of the carburetor via the bridge instead that is much stronger than using the airhorn for the mounting the air cleaner stud (note that the threaded stud that holds the air cleaner in place is part of the "bridge" that goes across the body of the carburetor and secures the air cleaner rather than such a stud mounted on the weaker air horn as in the original design). I did not tighten the screws of the bridge kit in these photos since I will be taking the bridge off again when I rebuild this carburetor for use on one of my 360s.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

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That's a handy FIX! I like this as much as I do the steering pot wire clamp.