Age old question - Fuel or Spark?

Dobalovr

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So had a nice visit from Larry and his 77 NYB today. He was having issues with low speed drive ability and rough idle/miss stopped in drive. So i checked the usual timing/vacuum etc adjusted the idle speed up a bit from 675 to 770rpm in park blah blah blah. So here is what I found on test driving it

Part throttle miss
Rough idle in drive maintains 650rpm
Smooth idle in park
Good snap throttle and return to idle
Downshifts properly
No pinging under load
No get up and go

Specs
77 440 ELB car with non functional ATCII
Recent ELB delete with new dizzy orange box coil alternator voltage regulator ballast
Plug wires done 2000kms ago by PO
Manifold vacuum at 770 15”
Timing 15 degrees
Original ELB Thermobog with idle stop solenoid removed
I didn’t check all in timing

So yes the TQ needs replacing with a non ELB unit as it may be leaning out or accellerator pump worn running 91 octane non ethanol gas

Plug wires are unknown so thinking of starting there

What say you collective?

FFBDB47E-2D6E-45EF-A822-3380C7F0D9E5.jpeg
 

Mr C

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So my first question, since it's a LB TQ I presume you're not running ported vacuum?
 

thethee

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I've struggled for a long time with a similar issue on my TQ but eventually was able to fix it by richening up the metering rods, substantially. Unfamiliar with ELB TQ so unsure if you'd be able to do so.
 

Dobalovr

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So my first question, since it's a LB TQ I presume you're not running ported vacuum?
The garage that installed the electronic ignition ran the vacuum advance off a tee to the vacuum canister I checked and no vacuum at idle but full vacuum as throttle increases so yes its ported I considered switching to manifold vacuum
 

Dobalovr

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I've struggled for a long time with a similar issue on my TQ but eventually was able to fix it by richening up the metering rods, substantially. Unfamiliar with ELB TQ so unsure if you'd be able to do so.
This has been considered. Thinking of running a non LB TQ as Larry is trying to maintain originality so my usual swap to a AVS2 is not in the cards
 

CBODY67

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From what I discovered a while back, there is only ONE new or Reman TQ availabke, whcih is non-ELB and "one size fits all" 360-440. So even with that, some main mixture tweaking might be needed.

MIGHT a Street Demon with the phenolic bowl be an option? As it is a Holley clone of the TQ anyway, other than it has the Goggle Valve and will fit all intake manifolds. The SD metering rods even look like TQ items.

In a non-ELB car, the hot base idle should be closer to 700rpm in "P", and smoooooth. With base timing in the 12 degree BTDC range. Maybe 15 max Ported vacuum only.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 

1978 NYB

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This has been considered. Thinking of running a non LB TQ as Larry is trying to maintain originality so my usual swap to a AVS2 is not in the cards

An Eddie 1406 carb has an electric choke and will bolt right on and run great right out of the box without making any adjustments. Need the appropriate linkage adapter from Eddie that cost about $15. Many people on FCBO including me has put that carb on and I haven't heard any complaints.
 

Dobalovr

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An Eddie 1406 carb has an electric choke and will bolt right on and run great right out of the box without making any adjustments. Need the appropriate linkage adapter from Eddie that cost about $15. Many people on FCBO including me has put that carb on and I haven't heard any complaints.
So true Bob and on my cars this is what I always do as I hate TQ’s but Larry would like to keep it stock if possible
 

commando1

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Many people on FCBO including me has put that carb on and I haven't heard any complaints.
Fiddled with my TQ forever.
Sent it Washington state for a restoration.
Ran well for about two weeks.
Tossed on an Eddie.
Ran like a Lexus out of the box.
Don't even talk to me about a shitty running smog 440 without going the Eddy route first.
 

imperialman

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An Eddie 1406 carb has an electric choke and will bolt right on and run great right out of the box without making any adjustments. Need the appropriate linkage adapter from Eddie that cost about $15. Many people on FCBO including me has put that carb on and I haven't heard any complaints.
I'm one of them . 78 NYB with a 400 I switched over to the 1406 a couple of years ago. Works great!
 

71Newp

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Great looking car, good luck getting it running right...But still I thought the age old question was "Ginger or Mary Ann"??
 

70bigblockdodge

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Too much vacuum advance. Aftermarket vacuum advance seem to not have any tension on the spring in canister. They go to full advance very easy, usually at too low of rpm. Causes a surging or like a missing type situation, made worse by lean cruise LB, TQ.

My 2 cents.
 

Dobalovr

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Too much vacuum advance. Aftermarket vacuum advance seem to not have any tension on the spring in canister. They go to full advance very easy, usually at too low of rpm. Causes a surging or like a missing type situation, made worse by lean cruise LB, TQ.

My 2 cents.
Now this makes sense to me. It is a new distributor that was added when the LB was deleted recently. I will check that and get back to all
 

thethee

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I've struggled for a long time with a similar issue on my TQ but eventually was able to fix it by richening up the metering rods, substantially. Unfamiliar with ELB TQ so unsure if you'd be able to do so.
My first disagree, I will wear it as a badge of honour. But @mopar preferred, why though?
 

Mr C

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So a summary of my thoughts:

It may be a bit of both (fuel and spark).

The LB carb will be by its nature on the lean side which may be part of the issue...an easy check would be swapping to another known carb to see if things improve. If that narrows things down, then the TQ could be fattened up.

The LB swap kits have been known to have some quality issues in the past...I personally bought one new that came out of the box with a warped reluctor bracket that resulted in the reluctor striking the hall effect sensor...so maybe a "once over" wouldn't hurt.
 

Dobalovr

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Definitely going to swap out the LB carb and see if it helps. Larry had to replace the alternator for a second time after he left my place. Took two more “reman” alternators to finally get one that worked. So strange theory would a low voltage affect the operation of the ELB? Our modern cars are completely dependent on correct voltage to operate….stay tuned
 
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