Anyone find installing MSD unit worthwhile?

H

Henrius

Active Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
257
Reaction score
87
Location
Atlanta
I upgraded my B block 400 cu inch Newport to electronic ignition a long time ago.

A 4-banger hop-up book recommended MSD units. I installed one in my Pinto, but it is hard to sort out where the gains came from as I did so many things to the engine.

Anyone tried MSD on the big block cars? Did it do anything worthwhile- like increase HP or improve cold idle?
 
I would not run anything else. The 6AL is good for a street car. It can be piggy backed if you want to add things like a retard, or one of their digital dizzys. Changeable RPM pills & direct tach feed. Yes it keeps the plugs clean on low RPM. I ran my Champions 3 straight years with no ET loss. I pulled them out a couple of times & they looked good. If you have a hood scoop & a fat tune the MSD will be your friend.
 
I've run them on several cars and have had no issues. I usually put them on right after I get a car so I couldn't tell you any gains.
 
I've had them (MSD) on a few cars now and I've loved them. I truly think they are the best ignition out there....

But... It's overkill for most street cars. It has some great advantages... You can run a big gap in your spark plugs and it will definitely fire a fouled plug.

There's some disadvantages.. They aren't cheap and if you break it, the parts store that you can walk to isn't going to have one on the shelf.

The Mopar electronic ignition is pretty reliable, inexpensive and easy to get new parts. It works just fine and is a logical choice for most street cars. I've had that system in many cars and always had good luck.. It's nothing special, but a lot of guys use them.

The HEI conversion caught my eye a few years ago and I really think that's got a ton of potential. Again, the plug gaps can be widened. Inexpensive components and you can use an E-core coil. I've been thinking about doing this one myself.

More HEI info: Slant Six Forum, :: View topic - HEI Electronic Ignition Retrofit How-To
 
Henrius said:
I upgraded my B block 400 cu inch Newport to electronic ignition a long time ago.

A 4-banger hop-up book recommended MSD units. I installed one in my Pinto, but it is hard to sort out where the gains came from as I did so many things to the engine.

Anyone tried MSD on the big block cars? Did it do anything worthwhile- like increase HP or improve cold idle?
Click to expand...
I think MSD's offerings are good quality ( save the fakes coming out of China ) but I also think they're a bit of overkill on some cars. Read "The Counterfeit Report" .They have that mystique like i-Phones in that you just have to have one or you're not cool or a serious car fanatic. They claim to "double spark" the plugs but only to 3000 rpms. Other units like Pertronics Second Stike will do this across the entire rpm range and MSD's units are hellishly expensive. "Keep it simple, keep it reliable." is my moto on so many of these new technological insperations but when they break down who ya gonna call, Ghostbusters? You can pick up plugs, alternators and v-belts any day of the week at any parts store, but an MSD cap, rotor or ignition box not so much so. I run a Firecore CD distributor with an electronic coil, about as simple as they come. Plugs gap at .045, no misfires, and they look like brand new after 1000 miles. Pickup and relucter are Chrysler ( can be had anywere )and the e-coil about $50. I have a spare coil by the way. If you like to drink Coke, eat at Mcdonald's or drag race every weekend treat yourself to an AL6. Then you'll be part of the "in crowd" if not you could really put the cash you saved to a more needy cause. Like plugs, new v-belts and hoses and maybe a cosmetic fix-up.
 
Funny thing is my Mopar electronic ignition which I retrofitted to the Newport went bad after a while. It gave intermittent firing at high RPM. What a bear to diagnose that problem was. Finally remedied it with new magnets inside the distributor. In the Pinto I have got a Malloy Unilite that does not look original but seems like a more reliable solution.

Did not know you widened the gap with multi-spark or other units. Maybe I will try it.

Bought the MSD unit for the Pinto twenty years ago. Glad I did, as it seems the price has gone up!

Had not considered HEI. That is what modern cars have with the coil pack on the plug?
 
I glanced over the HEI article. It looks harder to install than the Pertronics second strike box. So what does HEI give you that Pertronics doesn't?

Seems to me HEI gives you a longer spark (reference the oscilloscope) while the MSD or Pertronics give you more than one spark. Why would HEI be better?
 
The Pertronix unit claims:
IGNITION BOX PERFORMANCE WITHOUT THE BOX!
  • Multiple sparks thru the entire RPM range.
  • Integrated digital REV limiter with LED feedback for precise RPM setting.
  • Adaptive dwell maintains peak energy throughout the entire RPM range, reducing misfires while improving engine performance.
  • Peak current level is reached just prior to spark for maximum energy without the heat build-up, increasing coil performance and module reliability.
  • Adjusts spark timing at higher RPMs to compensate for the inherent
    electronic delay.
  • Senses startup and increases energy for quicker, easier starting.
  • Legal in all 50 states and Canada.(C.A.R.B. E.O. #D-57-22)

Flame-Thrower® HEI III 4-Pin Module
 
My 440 is still points with no problems. I don't drag race though .
 
Multi strike after 3K is pretty much useless for a couple of reasons.

One, the higher the engine revs, the less time the piston is in the firing range. This is a problem because the time between strikes is a fixed X milliseconds. At 6K the crank will have travelled considerably more degrees in those same milliseconds than it would have at less than 3K.

The second reason is the real kicker because now you are asking the capacitor and coil to be saturated and discharged twice in 20 degrees of crank rotation instead of 720 degrees for a conventional ignition. Same problem applies here as above, time.

Up to 3000 RPM there is enough time to pull this off and maintain good ignition energy. After 3K it will fall like a stone and 2 or 3 weak sparks do not equal 1 good one. This is why MSD goes single strike above 3K

As far as being worthwhile? On a stockish combo it can fire off a less than ideal mixture ie a little lean or rich when the engine is cold because it fires 2 or 3 times or more over 20 degrees. If the first match doesn't light the fire the second or third one likely will. On the stockish build that probably equals more of a driveability improvement than a seat of the pants performance improvement. It might improve mileage slightly too but I think you would need to be tracking that really tight to see it.

If there is a concern about having to replace one on a road trip, you can always carry a spare stock orange box with a temporary harness and plug the distributor into it

Kevin
 
Does anyone run one and use a distributor with a magnetic pick up?
I am having trouble getting spark, I know that there is power to the distributor (dont ask how) but nothing at the plugs. Everything is new too.
 
I am far from a electrical wizard or engineer so someone explain to me how they do this
Len Z said:
Peak current level is reached just prior to spark for maximum energy without the heat build-up, increasing coil performance and module reliability
Click to expand...

And this, isn't it already dumping full voltage through the coil?
Len Z said:
Senses startup and increases energy for quicker, easier starting
Click to expand...

I'm okay with the rest of thier claims
The MSD units were originally designed to help low speed drivability in engines with big overlap cams and low manifold vacuum (where most plug fouling occurs) it you have ignition problems above 5K MSD box is not your magic wand you have ignition problems, period.
 
Last edited:
Got the distributor in but had to relocate the GM module from under the distributor, My A/C brackets were in the way. It's running but i need to run
a better ground to the module. Have the rev-limit set to 5,000.
 
1BIGFISH68 said:
Does anyone run one and use a distributor with a magnetic pick up?
I am having trouble getting spark, I know that there is power to the distributor (dont ask how) but nothing at the plugs. Everything is new too.
Click to expand...

Not sure how you have power to the distributor as it doesn't use power, the pickup generates a pulse that triggers the box. Unless you are saying the coil is firing?

Make sure you have wired the box and all the components up EXACTLY per the instruction. The big + and - go DIRECTLY to the battery. There is a good chance it won't fire if you try to power it anywhere else and I have seen this personally. Also NO ballast resistor required.

If this is a stock Mopar or MP Performance distributor, check the reluctor air gap with a brass feeler gauge. IIRC it's .008". I've seen the MP distributor with the gap FUBAR wide right out of the box. No fire.

If you have another brand distributor with a mag pickup it could have the same problem. Not sure what the gap is for say an Accel or MSD distributor but I think .008" would be in the ballpark for it to fire.

Kevin
 
twostick said:
Not sure how you have power to the distributor as it doesn't use power, the pickup generates a pulse that triggers the box. Unless you are saying the coil is firing?

Make sure you have wired the box and all the components up EXACTLY per the instruction. The big + and - go DIRECTLY to the battery. There is a good chance it won't fire if you try to power it anywhere else and I have seen this personally. Also NO ballast resistor required.

If this is a stock Mopar or MP Performance distributor, check the reluctor air gap with a brass feeler gauge. IIRC it's .008". I've seen the MP distributor with the gap FUBAR wide right out of the box. No fire.

If you have another brand distributor with a mag pickup it could have the same problem. Not sure what the gap is for say an Accel or MSD distributor but I think .008" would be in the ballpark for it to fire.

Kevin
Click to expand...
I meant that my buddy had the key on and i didn't know it. I pulled the distributor to turn it 180 and got nailed!

The battery connections are correct and we are not using the ballast resistor. I distributor i am using is from 440 source. I will check the gap though, I feel like they should be about the same.

Thanks for the input!
 
I had a msd 6al. One day, it burned the terminal in the distributor cap and even after replacing the cap, the car was dead. Had to be towed home. Took the msd box out and without it, it fired right up. I did get a little better milage out of the car when the msd was in it I have to say... I'd like another one but to me it's not worth the money or the hassle when it takes a crap
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
FBO Ignition Box & Coil
Replies
14
Views
12K
PontiacJim
P
Gerald Morris
Fitment & performance Trial on MOP753A Radiator on 1966 Chrysler Newport
2 3
Replies
54
Views
22K
Gerald Morris
Gerald Morris
Back
Top