Bent Pushrod

The Heli-Coil shouldn't have pulled out. Once they are in, they don't bite in, but the spring pressure holds them in place. I've pulled them out, but you have to work at it.

That makes me wonder if the Heli-Coil was installed right. Geez... You'd really have to look at what you have there. You might be able to install a new Heli-Coil, I'd give it a try rather than messing too much with the block.

I'll stay in touch and let you know once I can look deeper at it this week.

Something makes me want to pull the water pump housing and just see if I can easy out that old bolt stud in the block. That would solve my overall issue altogether. Would just be a day of pulling the front end of the motor apart though.

Maybe i can get lucky?
 
Sorry you're getting to enjoy this. As I understand it, the prior person broke the bolt, then slipped in a helicoil without extracting the old bolt... they would have had to go up a size or two and cut threads into the water pump for that to hold at all... this sound like a shade tree JB weld "repair".

The only way to make it right, IMO, is to extract the bolt. You will probably have to strip everything back off the front of the engine and you need to be very careful not to get metal debris into the pan... because some amount of drilling is likely.

There are a ton of different bolt extractors available, but I'm going to say don't buy any of them... the cheaper ones, in a size you can use are brittle and break very easily...then you get to drill out the extractor. If it broke off clean, you can very carefully drill the center of the bolt... keep in mind that the last resort is to simply drill out the old bolt and re-tap the threads. If you start the hole with a smaller drill size, you might try a left handed drill bit a size or two up and hope that it catches the bolt and winds it out... do not break the bit... and do use plenty of oil to try to free the threads... I prefer ATF to most penetrating oils.

The most important thing is to take your time... do your best to center the bit and keep it straight. Now assuming you manage to screw that up as badly as I have in the past... once you have gotten through the bolt, the oil gets where it's needed and the bolt usually comes free... you could cut a slot with a hacksaw blade and use a screwdriver to help wind it out... or anything that works... the only rule is the try not to damage the threads in the block. If they get slightly nicked, the tap will clean them enough that they should seal with a little RTV gasket maker. Good chance the threads go into a coolant passage, so I like to seal the threads anyhow (tracing coolant or oil leaks to a bolt you just worked on sucks). Really stubborn bolts will come out once you've remove most of their metal... I have drilled them enough to use a dental pick to get them to wind out or weak enough to collapse enough the threads don't fully engage.

Get creative, be careful and be tenacious... you can do this. Once finished, you'll get to enjoy finding a correct replacement bolt... hopefully not as bad as getting the broken one out.
 
I'll stay in touch and let you know once I can look deeper at it this week.

Something makes me want to pull the water pump housing and just see if I can easy out that old bolt stud in the block. That would solve my overall issue altogether. Would just be a day of pulling the front end of the motor apart though.

Maybe i can get lucky?

DO NOT USE AN EASY-OUT! They almost never work; they usually break off in the bolt you are trying to remove enormously exacerbating the problem. Instead, I would pull off the water pump housing and clear away any brackets, other bolts, etc. that are in the way. Then, tap on a fine-point punch at an angle against the broken bolt and see if you can "persuade" the bolt to turn out. If this doesn't work, try and build up a spot of weld a little at a time, until you have a glob that is sufficient to get a pair of vise grips tight to it. Soak the heck out of the old bolt with PB Blaster (or ATF) before you attempt to turn out the bolt.
 
I gotta agree on the easy-out/extractor. They never work and a lot of people break them off.

But before any drilling etc., take a look at what you have there. The bolt may be gone.. That was speculation on my part that there may still be a broken bolt in there.

I'd take the water pump housing off to get a good look. It may be a matter of a new Heli-Coil with a longer bolt.

BTW, the ideal way to redrill the hole will involve making a sleeve with the OD the size of the water pump bolt hole and the ID the size of the tap drill. You bolt the water pump on and use it as a guide for the tap drill.
 
I just was thinking (which is dangerous, but I digress). If the water pump housing isn't leaking and all is OK there, maybe the easiest solution would be to eliminate the idler pulley. I did this on my car (70 300) and it worked out nicely.

I used one of these.
BPE Water Pump Pulley - Bouchillon Performance Engineering
bpe4016.jpg


Basically, it allows you to wrap the belt around the water pump pulley and the power steering pump. It cuts the belts down to two, rather than three and eliminates the sometimes troublesome idler pulley.

You only use one of the grooves of the pulley. If I get a chance, I'll snap a pic of mine later.
 
DO NOT USE AN EASY-OUT! They almost never work; they usually break off in the bolt you are trying to remove enormously exacerbating the problem. Instead, I would pull off the water pump housing and clear away any brackets, other bolts, etc. that are in the way. Then, tap on a fine-point punch at an angle against the broken bolt and see if you can "persuade" the bolt to turn out. If this doesn't work, try and build up a spot of weld a little at a time, until you have a glob that is sufficient to get a pair of vise grips tight to it. Soak the heck out of the old bolt with PB Blaster (or ATF) before you attempt to turn out the bolt.
My brother and I used the MIG welding trick successfully to extract a bolt that snapped off in the tailstock of my 727 when I was trying to replace the rubber mount once.
 
Sorry you're getting to enjoy this. As I understand it, the prior person broke the bolt, then slipped in a helicoil without extracting the old bolt... they would have had to go up a size or two and cut threads into the water pump for that to hold at all... this sound like a shade tree JB weld "repair".

The only way to make it right, IMO, is to extract the bolt. You will probably have to strip everything back off the front of the engine and you need to be very careful not to get metal debris into the pan... because some amount of drilling is likely.

There are a ton of different bolt extractors available, but I'm going to say don't buy any of them... the cheaper ones, in a size you can use are brittle and break very easily...then you get to drill out the extractor. If it broke off clean, you can very carefully drill the center of the bolt... keep in mind that the last resort is to simply drill out the old bolt and re-tap the threads. If you start the hole with a smaller drill size, you might try a left handed drill bit a size or two up and hope that it catches the bolt and winds it out... do not break the bit... and do use plenty of oil to try to free the threads... I prefer ATF to most penetrating oils.

The most important thing is to take your time... do your best to center the bit and keep it straight. Now assuming you manage to screw that up as badly as I have in the past... once you have gotten through the bolt, the oil gets where it's needed and the bolt usually comes free... you could cut a slot with a hacksaw blade and use a screwdriver to help wind it out... or anything that works... the only rule is the try not to damage the threads in the block. If they get slightly nicked, the tap will clean them enough that they should seal with a little RTV gasket maker. Good chance the threads go into a coolant passage, so I like to seal the threads anyhow (tracing coolant or oil leaks to a bolt you just worked on sucks). Really stubborn bolts will come out once you've remove most of their metal... I have drilled them enough to use a dental pick to get them to wind out or weak enough to collapse enough the threads don't fully engage.

Get creative, be careful and be tenacious... you can do this. Once finished, you'll get to enjoy finding a correct replacement bolt... hopefully not as bad as getting the broken one out.
Thanks cantflip. What I believe happened is someone broke the OEM bolt off flush in the front of the block. The passenger side lower bolt A/C 383 car that slides through the idler pulley/spacer/water pump housing (unthreaded) then into the block (threaded). They put a helicoil into the unthreaded water pump housing with a shorter bolt.

I 100% agree that extracting the bolt is the best course of action. I am working this week to pull the water pump housing off to see for sure. A lot of disassembly just to get that housing off unfortunately. Radiator, shroud, fan, PS pump, Alternator etc....

Thanks for the advice in getting the broken bolt out. My hope is that it is not a flush break with the block. I'll keep you updated.

I really appreciate the thought process about taking my time and being patient with it. Going to take everything I have to calm down and get it out. Though i wont let it beat me!
 
DO NOT USE AN EASY-OUT! They almost never work; they usually break off in the bolt you are trying to remove enormously exacerbating the problem. Instead, I would pull off the water pump housing and clear away any brackets, other bolts, etc. that are in the way. Then, tap on a fine-point punch at an angle against the broken bolt and see if you can "persuade" the bolt to turn out. If this doesn't work, try and build up a spot of weld a little at a time, until you have a glob that is sufficient to get a pair of vise grips tight to it. Soak the heck out of the old bolt with PB Blaster (or ATF) before you attempt to turn out the bolt.

Appreciate the advice Rip. I am a bit hesitant at the Easy Out, but I have been successful with them before. Agreed they break off easily. I am going to soak it 1st probably overnight. Just gotta get it all torn apart first to see what I'm dealing with.

New gas tank was in, car was ready for a drive. I had even fired it off already.

Always one more thing. If I didn't love the car so much it wouldn't be so hard, if it were a woman we'd of been divorced by now.

Love the MIG welder idea. If I only had one. I could borrow one though.

I'll keep you updated.
 
I gotta agree on the easy-out/extractor. They never work and a lot of people break them off.

But before any drilling etc., take a look at what you have there. The bolt may be gone.. That was speculation on my part that there may still be a broken bolt in there.

I'd take the water pump housing off to get a good look. It may be a matter of a new Heli-Coil with a longer bolt.

BTW, the ideal way to redrill the hole will involve making a sleeve with the OD the size of the water pump bolt hole and the ID the size of the tap drill. You bolt the water pump on and use it as a guide for the tap drill.
Thanks Big_John. I will take some pictures once I get the water pump housing off. I'm a little shakey on the Easy out idea myself. I'm hoping for the best and praying it is sticking out enough to get ahold of.
 
I just was thinking (which is dangerous, but I digress). If the water pump housing isn't leaking and all is OK there, maybe the easiest solution would be to eliminate the idler pulley. I did this on my car (70 300) and it worked out nicely.

I used one of these.
BPE Water Pump Pulley - Bouchillon Performance Engineering
View attachment 201182

Basically, it allows you to wrap the belt around the water pump pulley and the power steering pump. It cuts the belts down to two, rather than three and eliminates the sometimes troublesome idler pulley.

You only use one of the grooves of the pulley. If I get a chance, I'll snap a pic of mine later.
Big_John I really like this idea from BPE with the double pulley setup. I'll keep it as a back up in my hip pocket. Is the idler pulley only an A/C car exclusive item?
 
My brother and I used the MIG welding trick successfully to extract a bolt that snapped off in the tailstock of my 727 when I was trying to replace the rubber mount once.
I like this idea a lot like Rip and yourseld mentioned. Just wish I had a MIG Welder. Next item on the bucket list!
 
BTW, the ideal way to redrill the hole will involve making a sleeve with the OD the size of the water pump bolt hole and the ID the size of the tap drill. You bolt the water pump on and use it as a guide for the tap drill.
Yep, you're right... I even bought some plastic guides somewhere once... good for a pilot hole, if you have a drill long enough to use them. I've used leftover steel tubing for that before, too... but I always seem to hope the smaller hole and drill out with a lefty will get the stupid thing to jump out in my hand...:rolleyes:

I feel like a genius when it works :realcrazy:
 
Gents, any idea how hard the water pump housing to block gaskets are going to be to get sealed? They look extremely funny shaped and small.
 
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