Control Arm Cam Bolt Pre-Set?

[SF-66TC]

Installed my FF Tubular Control Arms. Any suggestions on a pre-set position of the cam?
I neglected to take pics before I removed the original arms, but I'm guessing if I set it as shown in the photo below camber would be at "0". With the cam hole toward the block (right) that should be +camber and toward the fender (left) -camber.

 

[Big_John]

Set it so you have as much caster as possible and use a level to get the camber close.
Then go have it done at your favorite front end shop. Ask if they know anything about old Mopars and take a copy of the front end pages of the FSM with you. Have them dial in as much caster as they can and the rest to spec.

 

[SF-66TC]

Big_John, don't known anything about these cams other than they either move the control arms in/out which I assume would be camber. Isn't caster a forward/back adjustment? These tubular arms give +4 caster, but as far as adjusting that I have no idea unless the cams have something to do with that too.

 

[CanCritter]

Big_John, don't known anything about these cams other than they either move the control arms in/out which I assume would be camber. Isn't caster a forward/back adjustment? These tubular arms give +4 caster, but as far as adjusting that I have no idea unless the cams have something to do with that too.

heck l didn't even know that...keep the info comein

 

[Big_John]

Big_John, don't known anything about these cams other than they either move the control arms in/out which I assume would be camber. Isn't caster a forward/back adjustment? These tubular arms give +4 caster, but as far as adjusting that I have no idea unless the cams have something to do with that too.

The cams adjust both.

Roughly, this is how it works. Turning both cams so they adjust the arms in/out gives you camber. Turning the cams in opposite directions tilts the control arm to give you more/less camber. Doing the actual alignment is a function of the tech turning both cams to get the caster/camber correct.

I didn't know that the tubular arms gave more caster. If it were me, using those arms, I would try to set the camber and keep both cams in the same orientation so there's a minimum amount of caster change and let the 4° of extra caster take care of itself. Again, this is a rough setting to get you to the alignment shop.

Check the toe in with a tape measure and just be sure that the wheels aren't toed out.

 

[saylor]

its in the book on how to set all this. somewhere i have a post up about it also i think.

but here in the driveway -
set your car somewhere level. really level. really. then chock the back wheel.
get 4 cheap $0.49 cent linoleum floor tiles from lowesdepot. take 2 and put grease on them and sandwich them together. put those under your front wheels. this is gonna let you move your wheel around later when you adjust.
measure where your ball joint knuckles are and stuff underneath from ground to a point on the ball. you need it all the same measurement. get all that flat parallel with the ground with the torsion bar adjustos. shake the front end up and down. adjust. measure. repeat until close to equal on each side.
now go to back to lowesdepot and get the husky digital level with degree measurement. strap that to a 2x4 wood piece that is big enough to touch the top and bottom of the tire. strap that vertically onto a wheel. with a bungee. this is for your in/out vertically.
now adjust.
measure your toe in across the tire face from point to point at the front of the wheel, and the back of the wheel. you want about a small 1/8" in on the front or something.
turning the top of your tires in / \ will make it turn quicker. you want a bit less than this | |. too much | vertical and it will feel floaty.

that gets you on the road and not scupping your tires.
i did this, then took it to a shop for final alignment.
i like where i had it better than where mechanic dude set it.

try not to die -

- saylor

 

[MrMoparCHP]

I just max the adjusters front one out, rear one in (as far as they will go), set the toe and you are done!

The old specs are for bias ply tires, with the radials everybody says to get as much caster as you can.

Alan

 

[commando1]

its in the book on how to set all this. somewhere i have a post up about it also i think.

but here in the driveway -
set your car somewhere level. really level. really. then chock the back wheel.
get 4 cheap $0.49 cent linoleum floor tiles from lowesdepot. take 2 and put grease on them and sandwich them together. put those under your front wheels. this is gonna let you move your wheel around later when you adjust.
measure where your ball joint knuckles are and stuff underneath from ground to a point on the ball. you need it all the same measurement. get all that flat parallel with the ground with the torsion bar adjustos. shake the front end up and down. adjust. measure. repeat until close to equal on each side.
now go to back to lowesdepot and get the husky digital level with degree measurement. strap that to a 2x4 wood piece that is big enough to touch the top and bottom of the tire. strap that vertically onto a wheel. with a bungee. this is for your in/out vertically.
now adjust.
measure your toe in across the tire face from point to point at the front of the wheel, and the back of the wheel. you want about a small 1/8" in on the front or something.
turning the top of your tires in / \ will make it turn quicker. you want a bit less than this | |. too much | vertical and it will feel floaty.

that gets you on the road and not scupping your tires.
i did this, then took it to a shop for final alignment.
i like where i had it better than where mechanic dude set it.

try not to die -

- saylor

I admire you.
But I'll go to the alignment shop.

 

[SF-66TC]

I admire you.
But I'll go to the alignment shop.

Yeah saylor, thanks for the detailed write-up but I just wanted enough to get it to an alignment shop. I really like your idea of using the linoleum floor tiles!

 

[SF-66TC]

I just max the adjusters front one out, rear one in (as far as they will go), set the toe and you are done!

The old specs are for bias ply tires, with the radials everybody says to get as much caster as you can.

Alan

Thanks Alan. I actually found a photo before I tore everything down. As you mentioned the front adjuster is maxed out, but my rear is vertically straight. I'll just set it the same and bring it to the shop.

 

[SF-66TC]

The cams adjust both.

Roughly, this is how it works. Turning both cams so they adjust the arms in/out gives you camber. Turning the cams in opposite directions tilts the control arm to give you more/less camber. Doing the actual alignment is a function of the tech turning both cams to get the caster/camber correct.

I didn't know that the tubular arms gave more caster. If it were me, using those arms, I would try to set the camber and keep both cams in the same orientation so there's a minimum amount of caster change and let the 4° of extra caster take care of itself. Again, this is a rough setting to get you to the alignment shop.

Check the toe in with a tape measure and just be sure that the wheels aren't toed out.

Big_John - Yes, the tubular arms are specifically designed for the extra caster which will give the car new car steering. As you probably know positive caster is achieved when the steering axis is tilted towards the rear of the car. Thus, the longer leg of the upper control arm goes to the front of the vehicle. Also, when setting the UCA with the top of the ball joint flat with the ground, one leg will be higher. Here's some pics to show what I mean.

 

[cantflip]

Big_John - Yes, the tubular arms are specifically designed for the extra caster which will give the car new car steering.

As a heads up... if you don't want the guy down at the tire store to try to reset your arms to factory specs, you'll have to make sure it's clear that you want him to maintain the extra caster. IMO the best bet is to find the alignment specs and just add your additional caster, Too many guys have been trained to simply make the computerized alignment screen "green". The computer software gives him the specs when he enters year/make/model and then he's playing a video game.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Rear in all the way, front out all the way. Turn the front one inward until the camber (top of the wheel/disc/drum) is about 1/2° inward/negative camber at ride height (jack under LCA), I use a level and lean the bubble to the outside line. That will get you to the alignment shop just try not to panic stop as your caster is probably not equal. I usually get you that with two vertical plumb Bob drops on a piece on paper taped to concrete and some math but you will already be sitting in waiting area of alignment shop I think.

 

[SF-66TC]

Rear in all the way, front out all the way. Turn the front one inward until the camber (top of the wheel/disc/drum) is about 1/2° inward/negative camber at ride height (jack under LCA), I use a level and lean the bubble to the outside line. That will get you to the alignment shop just try not to panic stop as your caster is probably not equal. I usually get you that with two vertical plumb Bob drops on a piece on paper taped to concrete and some math but you will already be sitting in waiting area of alignment shop I think.

You're actually right on the money 70bigblockdodge. I don't think I'll have to worry about caster since the tubulars will take care of most of that, so doing as you suggested should be sufficient. I don't know how I could have forgotten, but I just found an email from Rick Ehrenberg (July 2015) about the exact same setting.

"Steve - Use the B-body specs. The basic procedure is to adjust the rear of both UCAs as far inboard as possible, then adjust the front for a tad of neg. camber, then adjust whichever side has more pos. caster so that both side are equal. if you find an alignment shop with an OLD guy he'll do this in 10 minutes. Firm Feel's UCAs allow more positive caster and are a great upgrade, especially with modern tires. -Rick"

 

[70bigblockdodge]

My Challenger has never been to a alignment shop setting it this way.

 

[cantflip]

Dave, your the man... I started off in a little shop that had an old 50s/60s magnetic base gauge system with leveled pedestals... did a lot out of the book and math. My step father coveted and used his flashlight/wall target 70s system until he retired a few years ago. I still can get access to a modern system, even if it is like pulling teeth... My wussifed self is going to keep using the modern convenient way, but a smart guy willing to do the work can do this nicely.

I am amazed at how many guys here I would have confidence in, if they were touching my car. I hardly ever felt that good about most of my coworkers in the shops...

 

[Big_John]

 

[livininharrow]

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lmfao