Crown vs LeBaron ?

moper

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So what's the differences between an Imperial Crown 4dr sedan and an Imperial LeBaron 4dr sedan? Mines a LeBaron, but I don't know enough about them to know what that represents... All help is appreciated.
 
4 dr. SEDAN has frame around the door glass and a center post floor to roof...

L1.jpg

4 dr. HARDTOP is totally open..

L11.jpg

There are no LeBaron sedans..
The LeBaron has a smaller rear window...

L111.jpg
 
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The Crown was originally the mid level imperial- Imperial- Crown- LeBaron, toward the end it was the base model with the premium LeBaron at the top, the price differential was minimal so folks opted to pay that little bit more for the LeBaron and the Crown was dropped.

Hope this helps.
 
OK. SO pretty much the same car and options? I know mine's a LeBaron hardtop, and has the smaller rear window. But are there any other parts special to it aside from the window and badges? Seems like the LeBaron's lower production too?
 
OK. SO pretty much the same car and options? I know mine's a LeBaron hardtop, and has the smaller rear window. But are there any other parts special to it aside from the window and badges? Seems like the LeBaron's lower production too?

If we knew the year of your car that question could be better answered......
 
From about '64, the LeBaron was the premium Imperial, "top model". The Crown was the "entry level" Imperial. Crowns came in 2-dr ht, 4-dr ht, 4-dr sedan, and convertible. LeBarons were generally 4-dr hardtop only, with the exclusive smaller rear window and vinyl top.

LeBarons had the most opulent interiors, whereas Crowns were nice and usually had cloth seating surfaces as standard. More standard equipment in the LeBaron, which could be optional on the Crowns.

You can find some Imperial brochures online and you can compare the "std" and "optional" equipment for both cars. The VIN also reflected which version it was.

This is for the "Y" Imperials, not the later '70s smaller LeBaron models, based on the Aspen-Volare platform.

CBODY67
 
Got any pics? We love them!
I've got a '67 LeBaron loaded except for AC, northern PA car, and the light sentinel. Other than that every option was ticked off.
I love it. Drive's second only to my former '73 LeBaron, which Doc McNeedy now owns. The craftsmanship in these earlier Imperial's was awesome.
 
I posted some a while ago - but they're not on this PC. I'll get more as I progress through the repairs. It's white with a red interior, needs a lot of cleaning, some stuff replaced, the engine's out getting repaired, and I'm doing rust repairs. So there's plenty of opportunities to document...lol.
Wish I could find the washer bottle, and a headliner for it!
 
From about '64, the LeBaron was the premium Imperial, "top model". The Crown was the "entry level" Imperial. Crowns came in 2-dr ht, 4-dr ht, 4-dr sedan, and convertible. LeBarons were generally 4-dr hardtop only, with the exclusive smaller rear window and vinyl top.

LeBarons had the most opulent interiors, whereas Crowns were nice and usually had cloth seating surfaces as standard. More standard equipment in the LeBaron, which could be optional on the Crowns.

You can find some Imperial brochures online and you can compare the "std" and "optional" equipment for both cars. The VIN also reflected which version it was.

This is for the "Y" Imperials, not the later '70s smaller LeBaron models, based on the Aspen-Volare platform.

CBODY67

The LeBaron became the top of the line with the 1957 models. The small rear window was adopted for 1960. No 4 door sedans from 1961 to 1966.
For 1957 and 1958 the base series had no name, but became Custom for 1959. It lasted through 1963. Middle series (1957-1963) was the Crown, and became the base series for 1964 and was dropped after 1970.

The 1977 and up LeBaron models were Chryslers, not Imperials. So they definitely do not count.
 
  • The LeBaron became the top of the line with the 1957 models. The small rear window was adopted for 1960. No 4 door sedans from 1961 to 1966.
For 1957 and 1958 the base series had no name, but became Custom for 1959. It lasted through 1963. Middle series (1957-1963) was the Crown, and became the base series for 1964 and was dropped after 1970.

The 1977 and up LeBaron models were Chryslers, not Imperials. So they definitely do not count.

Top of the line, by any other name, is still the top.

The problem with Imperials as I see it was just plain bad marketing and overall business plan ... like Lincoln was for Ford, it just was not supported properly in the marketplace....

  • No single dealers for the mark to help distinguish it from the rest of the company ( IE...dealers were Ford, Lincoln, Mercury and Chrysler, Plymouth, Imperial). Simple signage error IMO..... would it have killed them to have a separate rotating Imperial sign 150 feet from the whole dealership with a seperate show room area. Rather than forcing the comparison/difference with corporate cousins. Yes there were many paired Cadillac dealers but there were almost as many exclusive dealers with upgraded support areas that contributed to its distinction in the market IE... Imperial se Vice like me and waiting areas etc. consierge level support.
  • Lack of aftermarket support for custom limousine and other variants.
  • Lack of Consistent product placement with multiple celebrity ownership.... and advertising.
  • Lack of co-marketing with other visible high end exclusive brands.... think Gucci Cadillacs v Mark Cross.... very few people understood the cosmopolitan wasps high end of that pairing or much cared.
  • Diminishing stylistic distinctions within the mark Crown v LeBaron v base
  • Emphasis on exclusivity rather than atainabilty (reward and aspirational nature of the mark.... Never or weak “Step up to ““Imperial”” emphasis)
  • Stupidly (slightly) higher pricing over competitors worked to diminish demand.
  • Invisible, expensive, market reactionary, ill conceived, poorly executed, poorly promoted and often meaningless technological complexity that scared off customers.... IE.. 81 fuel injection, Bendix anti lock braking system in the fuselage, ‘74 4 wheel disk brakes without expansion to the rest of the line even as an option a few years later...into the R body C’s
  • Destroyed their own child by confusing and working against its own potential market.... Similarly to what happened between Dodge v Plymouth/ Oldsmobile v Buick / Pontiac v Chevrolet..... etc etc...
  • Bean counter management in good years and bad... no promoted internal projection of pride with their product.
Sorry if I’m offended anyone. But that’s how I see it. And that’s just the beginning of what I see.

76- 78 were still Imperials (if only by position in the overall line) and whose success proved much of what I’m saying above IMO...
 
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I'd agree with you '73. I've been pretty much bleeding Mopar since the mid 80s, and until I involved this website in my Imperial's journey I had no idea there were "Imperial" Imperials. I always called them Chryslers. Given my own collecting of memorabilia and exposure (with interest) in these models, one would have thought it would have been more clear.
 
As for "exclusiveness", Imperial was a separate franchise (from what I've seen) until about '62 or so, when "Tex" was booted out an Lynn T. came in to make things better. All Chrysler dealers were not automatically Imperial dealers. Imperial dealers were Chrysler dealers, though. There wasn't enough sales volume for stand-alone sales points.

For the '64-'66 cars, from what I read in a WPC News article on Imperials, Chyrsler set its aim squarely at Cadillac for those cars. Materials, assembly, etc. were all aimed at making more inroads into Cadillac sales. But it didn't work. Other than building a better car, there were OTHER side issues at play.

A few decades ago, I overheard an insurance salesman talk about his ONE Lincoln he bought in the '80s. He had driven Cadillacs for years and decided to get a Lincoln. He liked the car, but soon discovered that when he waved at his friends and business associates from behind the Lincoln windshield, they didn't wave back. When he later asked them about this, they said "We didn't see you. You were in a new Lincoln?" So after several similar responses, he went back to new Cadillacs. Everybody knew him in a Cadillac, but not in anything else. So he kept buying Cadillacs and everybody was waving at him again.

Exclusivity has always been an Imperial trait. Mainly for the lower sales volume. Seek out some of the '50s-'60s Imperial print ads on some of the epherma websites (as the old www.Plan59.com, which I think has been changed). Ball room gowns, pearls and diamond necklaces, etc. All there.

The "livery" industry has typically been Cadillac and Lincoln, possibly with Checker in some cases. "Livery" doesn't mean "taxi cabs", but "limos" operated by fleets and such. When there was a "weak point" in the Cadillac use by these people in the '90s, Cadillac wondered why? Seems their deck lid shape would not allow for the standing up of Pullman bags, so they couldn't use Cadillac sedans as a result. Lincolns would do that, although many operators stated a preference for Cadillacs. So when GM/Cadillac did their next body re-fresh, they raised that deck lid height and Cadillacs became dominant in that market again.

By the time that Chrysler got their dealer network running decently well again, they were significantly smaller than GM/Cadillac was, so fewer possible sales outlets. But after that deep foray into trying to make big in-roads into Cadillac sales, the corp apparently looked more into NOT trying to do a Cadillac clone, but doing something that was "competitive", not unlike why Toyota built their "big" Tundra, to keep existing customers buying their products rather than looking elsewhere.

You have to also understand that as good as Imperials were, they still needed some extensive measures to keep NVH lower than normal Chryslers. Hence, the isolated front K-frame on some years, which obviously cost a good bit to engineer and build. In short, Imperial was not a "cash cow" by any means, for Chrysler. But then neither was Cadillac for GM. In DeLorean's book on GM (in the earlier '80s), he noted that a Cadillac had a materials cost of not a whole lot more than a Chevy Caprice. Yet they only made modest profits with a MSRP that was $3-4K+ higher. Basic cast iron for the various castings would be about the same. Same cost for the THM400. Interior fabrics that were about $2.00/sq yd more and a few more sq yds of them. Tires, wheels, brakes, etc. would be the same cost as Oldsmobiles and Buicks. When you look at these things, it was more about volume than vehicle end-of-the-assembly line costs.

When Imperial became more "Chrysler" in '67 and again in '69, it was more about size and opulence while still maintaining traditional Chrysler handling and performance benchmarks. There's an "On The Test Track with the '57s" YouTube video of such things, which is highly surprising. Can't "fake" some of the vehicle performance when going over dips, humps, and unexpected railroad track crossings.

Look at and READ the '66 Imperial sales brochure. Pretty impressive, but things the typical Cadillac owner didn't care about back then, but Chrysler people usually understood.

One reason that Lincoln was able to keep going as long as they did was that the Town Car was partnered on the "Panther" platform with Crown Vics and Mercury Grand Marquis cars. That spread the cost very well, for them.

Over the years, Ford products have had much better luck teaming with noted fashion houses/designers with special editions (which generated additional money for Lincoln), but which also became "out of style" several years later, by observation. Still, it was there. There was a Greg Norman marketing partnership with a GM brand (Buick), as well as a Buick partnership with Joseph Aboud for a special-trimmed Buick Regal (remember that one?). IF Chrysler/Imperial had sought some of those things, back then, it would have come off as "Me too" rather than a reason to Buy Imperial.

In the '50s, there were MANY Hollywood starts that drove Chryslers and/or Chrysler-Ghia cars. Frank Sinatra for one. Pictures exist!! Of course, there was the Frank Sinatra Edition Imperial from the '80s! A special blue paint, matching interior, and a set of Sinatra tapes in the center console.

Also, in the later '50s and earlier '60s, there were MANY Chrysler products supplied to Hollywood studios for use in movies and television shows!! There's an Internet Movie Data Base for Cars! Searchable by make and model, typically. It was neat to see Milburn Drysdale in his Imperial convertible (even if the windshield had been removed as it was an indoor movie set)!

In one of the "Car Crash" channel vids on YouTube, there are several scenes from one foreign movie where a '65-'66 Imperial gets hammered, but keeps on going, big time. No wonder they were banned from the demo-derby circuits! That sheet metal just didn't bend very much!

Not unlike when an owner in the Imperial Club's blog mentioned that he'd bought a rh accessory mirror for his '65 Imperial. He got it out and placed the paper template on the door. Got a punch to make his first "mark". He hit the punch and it bounced out of his hand. Tried again, same result. Looked at no "punch mark hole" in the sheet metal, not even a small dent. He put it all back in the box and went inside. Try THAT with a Cadillac!

Imperials got a poor "rap" with the '57s. Water leaks from the new-design windshields. IF you look closely near the corners of the windshield, INSIDE the car, you'll see a small hole at each of the corners of the windshield. "Drain holes", which went to rubber hoses that went to the outside. You'll also find those on the back glasses of '56 Chevy's too! Just as the drain tubes for modern sun roofs!

ONE of Chrysler's traditional "issues with customers" was that "they did things differently". But then, EACH OEM had their own "feels" and "tactile touch" attributes. When Chrysler came along with something "to a higher degree of execution", people rejected it as it didn't "feel" like what GM or Ford had. Chrysler was just being Chrysler. Admittedly, the '57 model issues didn't help things, either. Quality control and assembly items were areas where Chrysler didn't seem to be as good as GM and especially Ford, back then. And then the dealers back then weren't always the best, unfortunately, especially the "big city" dealers.

Chrysler products had their quirks that didn't exist with GM or Ford products. GM would not pay for the added cents to make something better, so long as it got the car to the end of the assembly line cheaper. Accountant-management was much worse at GM than at other OEMs, back then, by observation. AND as stated in the DeLorean book. When GM did best, it had top management who were "car people", lots of innovation in engineering and such. When they were "at their worst", they had financial people at the top. And it cycled back and forth.

Imperial, like Viper, was never designed OR meant to be a "mass market" vehicle. Especially Viper (read "GUTS" by Bob Lutz). Imperial by virtue of the smaller dealer network, typically. Regardless of how much "Chrysler" shown through, they were always distinctive and special. In that elevated status, "price" is not always a significant selling situation. Certainly, by '67, the Crown was competing with the Cadillac "entry level" Calis sedan. A Cadillac with a little less std equipment, less expensive cloth interior, but still a normal Cadillac underneath. A less expensive DeVille without besmirching the DeVille's status.

When Chrysler did the Imperial FI system, GM and Ford has less-sophisticated systems. FI was needed in that price class for Imperial to be a decent player. Like other Chrysler tech advances, it was not fully or well-understood. Nobody understood why that with the engine running, the air cleaner top (and band clamp!) was removed, and the engine died. Mass Air Flow sensors were not known about, back then, as they now are. The MAF on the Imperial was in the air cleaner snorkel, so when no air went through the snorkel, the sensor perceived the "engine stopped", so fuel injection stopped, too. If the band clamp was not fully in place and the top of the air cleaner was not fully correctly positioned, air leaks could happen, which also affected signals from the MAF, which affect engine performance, too.

The '74 Imperial Anti-Lock brake system was another tech high point. Other ABS had either "on" or "off" on brake pressure. The Imperial system was on ALL four wheels, not just the rear ones (as Cadillac and Ford had) AND had TWO different decal levels! Detailed in a "Popular Science" magazine article on it. So much better than what anybody else had, back then, PERIOD. But it was also at a time when "computer brakes" were first starting to be on OTR rigs. An advance for them, too. But when they didn't work right, on the trucks, many took a hammer to the computers and took them off so they could use the trucks. Having them parked didn't make any money for the owner/operators. So that OTR federal standard was quietly forgotten about for a good while. So, introduction of the Imperial system came at a generally bad time, in retrospect. PLUS, the GM and Ford two-wheel ABS was less expensive in parts and such, too. One sensor rather than four to worry about, for example. Their sensor was usually on the rear axle pinion shaft, as many later sensors were. At worst, two sensors which ran ONE ABS pump.

Again, the Imperial ABS was not a popular option, even as good as it might have been. People still knew to pump the brakes when a wheel locked-up, generally. Although for some, it was a fight between tires and pavement in a panic stop.

It's easy to armchair quarterback some of these things, especially now. When these things were new and happening, it was a different mind-set of sorts with many later-unknown historical facts. AND, on top of all of this, there was a huge "You've got to take it back to the dealer for that" orientation in the garage industry, by observation. It was claimed that much of this would put many smaller garages out of business, which, by observation, didn't really happen. NOR were some of these things the private garages had any business dealing with, back then. I heard the same things about electronic ignition, when it came out! Of course, that meant no point/condenser changes for the garages, any more, too. BUT, the private garages didn't flounder and normal vehicle growth kind of took up the slack. It was also observed that they build most of their business on GM and Ford brands! Not specifically Chrysler products.

And, if they had similar problems with a Chrysler and a GM, tried to use the same fixes on the Chrysler that worked on the GM, their success rate was low. Same with GM vs Ford, too. Many people didn't understand that, well in advance of the "they're all the same" orientation of years later.

Again, much of the problems were assembly-related, with those issues supposed to be found by the dealers' make ready employees. NOT all dealers required their techs to be aware of the Chrysler MasterTech program and filmstrip/videos. If they subscribed to the series, there was no industry-wide way to ensure that they all watched/understood them! In more current times, there is AND the dealership HAS to participate in order to get financial "points" for doing that.

Many of Chrysler's "bad rap", by observation, had to do with dealers not ordering their cars correctly. By that, I mean ordering cars that would be good cars, rather than just ordering what was on the order blank. Possibly trying to hit a low price point rather than a low-priced car that would be superior to what GM had, for example. Might not have been as critical with Imperials as with Plymouths or Chryslers, but knowing how it all worked together, what tended to give trouble and what didn't, and such, was very important for that "best ownership experience", in the long run.

Find some of the YouTube videos of various "How To Sell _______ against Cadiilac and Lincoln", for example. It makes it look easy, until you consider the thing I mentioned earlier, but the insurance man who bought a Lincoln instead of a Cadillac. Imperial usually bested Cadillac in everything except sales, from my observations. Check out these videos and similar things in the MasterTech series (one place to find them is the ImperialClub.com website).

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
As for "exclusiveness", Imperial was a separate franchise (from what I've seen) until about '62 or so, when "Tex" was booted out an Lynn T. came in to make things better. All Chrysler dealers were not automatically Imperial dealers. Imperial dealers were Chrysler dealers, though. There wasn't enough sales volume for stand-alone sales points.

For the '64-'66 cars, from what I read in a WPC News article on Imperials, Chyrsler set its aim squarely at Cadillac for those cars. Materials, assembly, etc. were all aimed at making more inroads into Cadillac sales. But it didn't work. Other than building a better car, there were OTHER side issues at play.

A few decades ago, I overheard an insurance salesman talk about his ONE Lincoln he bought in the '80s. He had driven Cadillacs for years and decided to get a Lincoln. He liked the car, but soon discovered that when he waved at his friends and business associates from behind the Lincoln windshield, they didn't wave back. When he later asked them about this, they said "We didn't see you. You were in a new Lincoln?" So after several similar responses, he went back to new Cadillacs. Everybody knew him in a Cadillac, but not in anything else. So he kept buying Cadillacs and everybody was waving at him again.

Exclusivity has always been an Imperial trait. Mainly for the lower sales volume. Seek out some of the '50s-'60s Imperial print ads on some of the epherma websites (as the old www.Plan59.com, which I think has been changed). Ball room gowns, pearls and diamond necklaces, etc. All there.

The "livery" industry has typically been Cadillac and Lincoln, possibly with Checker in some cases. "Livery" doesn't mean "taxi cabs", but "limos" operated by fleets and such. When there was a "weak point" in the Cadillac use by these people in the '90s, Cadillac wondered why? Seems their deck lid shape would not allow for the standing up of Pullman bags, so they couldn't use Cadillac sedans as a result. Lincolns would do that, although many operators stated a preference for Cadillacs. So when GM/Cadillac did their next body re-fresh, they raised that deck lid height and Cadillacs became dominant in that market again.

By the time that Chrysler got their dealer network running decently well again, they were significantly smaller than GM/Cadillac was, so fewer possible sales outlets. But after that deep foray into trying to make big in-roads into Cadillac sales, the corp apparently looked more into NOT trying to do a Cadillac clone, but doing something that was "competitive", not unlike why Toyota built their "big" Tundra, to keep existing customers buying their products rather than looking elsewhere.

You have to also understand that as good as Imperials were, they still needed some extensive measures to keep NVH lower than normal Chryslers. Hence, the isolated front K-frame on some years, which obviously cost a good bit to engineer and build. In short, Imperial was not a "cash cow" by any means, for Chrysler. But then neither was Cadillac for GM. In DeLorean's book on GM (in the earlier '80s), he noted that a Cadillac had a materials cost of not a whole lot more than a Chevy Caprice. Yet they only made modest profits with a MSRP that was $3-4K+ higher. Basic cast iron for the various castings would be about the same. Same cost for the THM400. Interior fabrics that were about $2.00/sq yd more and a few more sq yds of them. Tires, wheels, brakes, etc. would be the same cost as Oldsmobiles and Buicks. When you look at these things, it was more about volume than vehicle end-of-the-assembly line costs.

When Imperial became more "Chrysler" in '67 and again in '69, it was more about size and opulence while still maintaining traditional Chrysler handling and performance benchmarks. There's an "On The Test Track with the '57s" YouTube video of such things, which is highly surprising. Can't "fake" some of the vehicle performance when going over dips, humps, and unexpected railroad track crossings.

Look at and READ the '66 Imperial sales brochure. Pretty impressive, but things the typical Cadillac owner didn't care about back then, but Chrysler people usually understood.

One reason that Lincoln was able to keep going as long as they did was that the Town Car was partnered on the "Panther" platform with Crown Vics and Mercury Grand Marquis cars. That spread the cost very well, for them.

Over the years, Ford products have had much better luck teaming with noted fashion houses/designers with special editions (which generated additional money for Lincoln), but which also became "out of style" several years later, by observation. Still, it was there. There was a Greg Norman marketing partnership with a GM brand (Buick), as well as a Buick partnership with Joseph Aboud for a special-trimmed Buick Regal (remember that one?). IF Chrysler/Imperial had sought some of those things, back then, it would have come off as "Me too" rather than a reason to Buy Imperial.

In the '50s, there were MANY Hollywood starts that drove Chryslers and/or Chrysler-Ghia cars. Frank Sinatra for one. Pictures exist!! Of course, there was the Frank Sinatra Edition Imperial from the '80s! A special blue paint, matching interior, and a set of Sinatra tapes in the center console.

Also, in the later '50s and earlier '60s, there were MANY Chrysler products supplied to Hollywood studios for use in movies and television shows!! There's an Internet Movie Data Base for Cars! Searchable by make and model, typically. It was neat to see Milburn Drysdale in his Imperial convertible (even if the windshield had been removed as it was an indoor movie set)!

In one of the "Car Crash" channel vids on YouTube, there are several scenes from one foreign movie where a '65-'66 Imperial gets hammered, but keeps on going, big time. No wonder they were banned from the demo-derby circuits! That sheet metal just didn't bend very much!

Not unlike when an owner in the Imperial Club's blog mentioned that he'd bought a rh accessory mirror for his '65 Imperial. He got it out and placed the paper template on the door. Got a punch to make his first "mark". He hit the punch and it bounced out of his hand. Tried again, same result. Looked at no "punch mark hole" in the sheet metal, not even a small dent. He put it all back in the box and went inside. Try THAT with a Cadillac!

Imperials got a poor "rap" with the '57s. Water leaks from the new-design windshields. IF you look closely near the corners of the windshield, INSIDE the car, you'll see a small hole at each of the corners of the windshield. "Drain holes", which went to rubber hoses that went to the outside. You'll also find those on the back glasses of '56 Chevy's too! Just as the drain tubes for modern sun roofs!

ONE of Chrysler's traditional "issues with customers" was that "they did things differently". But then, EACH OEM had their own "feels" and "tactile touch" attributes. When Chrysler came along with something "to a higher degree of execution", people rejected it as it didn't "feel" like what GM or Ford had. Chrysler was just being Chrysler. Admittedly, the '57 model issues didn't help things, either. Quality control and assembly items were areas where Chrysler didn't seem to be as good as GM and especially Ford, back then. And then the dealers back then weren't always the best, unfortunately, especially the "big city" dealers.

Chrysler products had their quirks that didn't exist with GM or Ford products. GM would not pay for the added cents to make something better, so long as it got the car to the end of the assembly line cheaper. Accountant-management was much worse at GM than at other OEMs, back then, by observation. AND as stated in the DeLorean book. When GM did best, it had top management who were "car people", lots of innovation in engineering and such. When they were "at their worst", they had financial people at the top. And it cycled back and forth.

Imperial, like Viper, was never designed OR meant to be a "mass market" vehicle. Especially Viper (read "GUTS" by Bob Lutz). Imperial by virtue of the smaller dealer network, typically. Regardless of how much "Chrysler" shown through, they were always distinctive and special. In that elevated status, "price" is not always a significant selling situation. Certainly, by '67, the Crown was competing with the Cadillac "entry level" Calis sedan. A Cadillac with a little less std equipment, less expensive cloth interior, but still a normal Cadillac underneath. A less expensive DeVille without besmirching the DeVille's status.

When Chrysler did the Imperial FI system, GM and Ford has less-sophisticated systems. FI was needed in that price class for Imperial to be a decent player. Like other Chrysler tech advances, it was not fully or well-understood. Nobody understood why that with the engine running, the air cleaner top (and band clamp!) was removed, and the engine died. Mass Air Flow sensors were not known about, back then, as they now are. The MAF on the Imperial was in the air cleaner snorkel, so when no air went through the snorkel, the sensor perceived the "engine stopped", so fuel injection stopped, too. If the band clamp was not fully in place and the top of the air cleaner was not fully correctly positioned, air leaks could happen, which also affected signals from the MAF, which affect engine performance, too.

The '74 Imperial Anti-Lock brake system was another tech high point. Other ABS had either "on" or "off" on brake pressure. The Imperial system was on ALL four wheels, not just the rear ones (as Cadillac and Ford had) AND had TWO different decal levels! Detailed in a "Popular Science" magazine article on it. So much better than what anybody else had, back then, PERIOD. But it was also at a time when "computer brakes" were first starting to be on OTR rigs. An advance for them, too. But when they didn't work right, on the trucks, many took a hammer to the computers and took them off so they could use the trucks. Having them parked didn't make any money for the owner/operators. So that OTR federal standard was quietly forgotten about for a good while. So, introduction of the Imperial system came at a generally bad time, in retrospect. PLUS, the GM and Ford two-wheel ABS was less expensive in parts and such, too. One sensor rather than four to worry about, for example. Their sensor was usually on the rear axle pinion shaft, as many later sensors were. At worst, two sensors which ran ONE ABS pump.

Again, the Imperial ABS was not a popular option, even as good as it might have been. People still knew to pump the brakes when a wheel locked-up, generally. Although for some, it was a fight between tires and pavement in a panic stop.

It's easy to armchair quarterback some of these things, especially now. When these things were new and happening, it was a different mind-set of sorts with many later-unknown historical facts. AND, on top of all of this, there was a huge "You've got to take it back to the dealer for that" orientation in the garage industry, by observation. It was claimed that much of this would put many smaller garages out of business, which, by observation, didn't really happen. NOR were some of these things the private garages had any business dealing with, back then. I heard the same things about electronic ignition, when it came out! Of course, that meant no point/condenser changes for the garages, any more, too. BUT, the private garages didn't flounder and normal vehicle growth kind of took up the slack. It was also observed that they build most of their business on GM and Ford brands! Not specifically Chrysler products.

And, if they had similar problems with a Chrysler and a GM, tried to use the same fixes on the Chrysler that worked on the GM, their success rate was low. Same with GM vs Ford, too. Many people didn't understand that, well in advance of the "they're all the same" orientation of years later.

Again, much of the problems were assembly-related, with those issues supposed to be found by the dealers' make ready employees. NOT all dealers required their techs to be aware of the Chrysler MasterTech program and filmstrip/videos. If they subscribed to the series, there was no industry-wide way to ensure that they all watched/understood them! In more current times, there is AND the dealership HAS to participate in order to get financial "points" for doing that.

Many of Chrysler's "bad rap", by observation, had to do with dealers not ordering their cars correctly. By that, I mean ordering cars that would be good cars, rather than just ordering what was on the order blank. Possibly trying to hit a low price point rather than a low-priced car that would be superior to what GM had, for example. Might not have been as critical with Imperials as with Plymouths or Chryslers, but knowing how it all worked together, what tended to give trouble and what didn't, and such, was very important for that "best ownership experience", in the long run.

Find some of the YouTube videos of various "How To Sell _______ against Cadiilac and Lincoln", for example. It makes it look easy, until you consider the thing I mentioned earlier, but the insurance man who bought a Lincoln instead of a Cadillac. Imperial usually bested Cadillac in everything except sales, from my observations. Check out these videos and similar things in the MasterTech series (one place to find them is the ImperialClub.com website).

Enjoy!
CBODY67
Great post! Great read.

But nothing you said takes away from the basic premise of failure due to bad marketing.

It was a phenomenally well built and designed car (with rare exceptions) but it was always a “Chrysler” Imperial even when it was almost stand alone.

No matter how many times Chrysler tried to bring it back, it was always a Chrysler salesman that you delt with, Chrysler service right next to Chrysler, Plymouth, desoto, Jeep, eagle, and now dodge it was forced to work with even if at times (50’s 60’s) it didn’t, and always co-marketed with the rest of the Chrysler product line.

I’ve seen it before with other makes... the same failure... $80k VW Pheatons come to mind..... Sold next to jettas and bugs. Citroën (Maserati) SM’s sold right next to clap trap deuce cheveaus.... even Mercedes with their Maybachs suffered and are suffering a similar fate.

The hubris to think that you can just because you can without knowing the why and for who.

There are successes. Look at Lexus... nobody calls them Toyota Lexus...

That’s all I’m saying.

Javier
 
Nice reads all, guys. Like I said - learning curve here...lol.
My plan of fixing a few things has changed to doing repairs on the body, a full repaint, and some interior work before I try and unload it. It's not as nice as I thought, but still well worthsaving for someone. So looks like it's my summer project instead of my flipper Chevelle...
 
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