E-brake hanging up

[furyfever]

Hi guys...Just wondering if any of you have had issues like this with your e-brake (cables) in the past and could shed some light on what I need to do. I have a very clean straight practically rust-free 54k original miles 1968 Fury III. I had issues first time out with the car as I bought it just a few weeks ago. Had to get a flatbed to bring the car home because I felt at the time that one or more of the brakes had locked up.

Now that I have it up on jack stands, I have a feeling my main problem was/is the rear passenger side e-brake (I had used the e-brake prior to the last ride home when I had to get a flatbed). I have replaced rear shoes/wheel cylinders/rear brake hose. With it still up on jack stands, I have been testing the e-brake...new shoes in place recently resurfaced drums on and adjusted out reasonably well (may be a little loose at the moment on purpose). Every time I depress the e-brake I can't turn the drums...which of course is good, but when I release the e-brake, the passenger rear always hangs up until I physically move/wiggle the e-brake cable. I've sprayed the whole length of the cable with penetrating oil several times. I've worked it in out from the junction point just in front of the driver rear wheel. I've even removed it from that junction point and brought it out to the passenger side and worked it in/out while it was physically "a straight shot" to the rear passenger brake. While it was in this position, I sprayed penetrating oil down inside the cable too. Both cables seem to be sliding in/out nicely. The passenger side may be a bit tighter and harder to move...but it has the same travel as the driver side. Now...I'm thinking of disassembling the passenger side brakes, removing the whole e-brake cable and submerging it in my parts washer (kerosene) and working in/out by hand...but I hate to if I don't have to. Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance, Bob

 

[Big_John]

Replace the cable.

 

[live4theking]

Replace the cable.

I'd replace it too. If you're having problems now they will probably never go away and just continue to be a hassle.

 

[furyfever]

I'm thinking maybe one of the strands on the cable broke inside the sheath and that's what's hanging up?

I failed to mention in my initial post...I have not bled the rear brakes yet...that wouldn't have anything to do with it...right?

Looked on-line as to where I can get them...called Auto Zone and Advance too. Looks like they're readily available. Getting parts for C-bodies is so much easier than for my Fin cars.

Bob

 

[65sporty]

I failed to mention in my initial post...I have not bled the rear brakes yet...that wouldn't have anything to do with it...right?
Bob

I agree with the suggestion about replacing the cable, and no bleeding the brakes wont have anything to do with it

 

[MYSINBIN]

I would also suggest that you replace all of the cables.

With all of the other brake work that you've done, it would be wise to replace them, bleed everything thoroughly, and then just drive.

I found them at Napa about 7 years ago.

This is a good place for brake parts:

Brake Lines - Inline Tube Home Page

They only list cables for '65-'66 C-body, but it may be worth calling them to confirm fitment/availability for your '68.

Hope the input helps.

John

 

[furyfever]

E-brake Still Hanging Up!

Even with new rear e-brake cables...passenger side still does not release properly...I've taken the rear passenger side shoes off again, deburred the e-brake arm and the horizontal center link, never-seized e-brake arm pivot point (it's nice and free), reassembled and still...when I release the e-brake...the rear passenger brake stays locked up. I have to fiddle with the e-brake cable to make it let go. I've swapped positions of the cables in the frame bracket (near adjustment stud). I've removed passenger e-brake cable from it's 2 restraints. Tried adjusting the brake shoes loose to snug...Tried adjusting e-brake cable loose to snug. Nothing makes a difference. It's almost like the spring on the passenger e-brake cable isn't doing it's job?...but it's brand new?

I've had brake shoe releasing problems in the past with other vehicles. Because of this, I'm aware of "wear grooves" in the stamped pads on the backing plates. When I replace brake shoes, I always touch up/clean off these resting pads with with a small grinder. Because this is a low mileage car, I didn't see hardly any wear grooves in these pads. Still, I touched them up/cleaned them off...so I can eliminate wear grooves as the culprit here. I'm at a loss why the passenger side e-brake won't release...

Bob

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

You mentioned that you haven't bled the brakes so I'm thinkin' that the pistonz in that R.R. brake cylinder are not releasing. After siting for a long time the Dot-3 with the help of some condensation getz real funky in those in those 40 year old brake cylinderz. And I'd get a replacement spring kit when you replace that cylinder too. Cheap 'n easy and will probably fix your problem. Jer

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

Check that the shoes can slide freely on the little stamped pads on the backing plate. Any rust or corrosion here will cause the shoes to hang up.

 

[furyfever]

As previously mentioned, I've touched up all the stamped pads with a small grinder. There were no wear grooves to begin with. Not surprised as it's a low mileage car (54k). I've replaced the wheel cylinders, the brake shoes, the rear brake hose, had the drums resurfaced, and bled the brakes yesterday. The passenger rear does not hang up when the brakes are applied...only when the e-brake is applied.

Only thing(s) not replaced yet...are the springs. They look like new and seem to be fine and are retracting fine when hydraulic brakes are applied? I'm stumped...but I guess a spring kit is in order now...what else is there?

Does anyone use a lubricant on the back of the shoes where they rest on the stamped pads? I've never...always thought the brake dust would collect there and make matters worse in the long run...Hmmm.

Thanks guys...for taking the time to try to help me...I appreciate it. I'll keep you posted.

Bob

 

[MYSINBIN]

Blind speculation here:

Does it happen both with the drum on and off? Sticking with the drum off will eliminate the drum as an issue.

Does the backing plate have any dings/dents that could be catching the drum or shoes?

Have you tried swapping the rear drums?

Maybe recruit a helper to actuate the E-brake while you observe with the drum off?

Check to see if the shoes or brake material are too wide and catching on the inside of the drum. (tolerances can be all over the place with new or repro parts)

One way to check this is to lightly coat the outside edge of the shoes (meaning the opposite side of the edge that rests on the backing plate) with something that will transfer to the areas that are sticking or bottoming out. Like the stuff used to check rear end gear patterns or even borrow some lipstick from your SO.

Put the drum back on and snug the lug nuts, actuate the E-brake, then remove and look for the marking material on the inside of the drum. Be sure to not rotate the drum/wheel.

Another way is to stack a couple of washers on each stud between the axle and drum and then reassemble and test the E-brake again. If it doesn't stick, then the shoes may be too wide.

It sounds like one of those things that's staring right at you but just can't be seen yet.

If possible take some pics and post them, we might see something that you don't.

Sometimes a fresh set of eyes can find the issue quickly.

Hope the speculation helps.

John

 

[stubs300]

Does anyone use a lubricant on the back of the shoes where they rest on the stamped pads? I've never...always thought the brake dust would collect there and make matters worse in the long run...Hmmm.
Thanks guys...for taking the time to try to help me...I appreciate it. I'll keep you posted.
Bob

I think if you read the FSM, it will tell you to lube that pad. I always have. As for the dust issue, there's not enough accumulation of crap to cause problems between brake jobs if you do the required maintenance when needed. Besides, you do clean the backing plate with every job don't you? Good Luck

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

As previously mentioned, I've touched up all the stamped pads with a small grinder.........

Does anyone use a lubricant on the back of the shoes where they rest on the stamped pads? I've never...always thought the brake dust would collect there and make matters worse in the long run...Hmmm.

Terribly sorry, I missed that part.

Yes, always lube the backing plate pads. Very light dab of grease spread across the pad.

 

[furyfever]

John, I tried some of your recommendations today. Tried e-brake after swapping the rear brake drums and nothing changed...passenger side still does not release. Tried e-brake without drums on...passenger side still does not release. I had a helper today and he depressed e-brake slowly while I watched without drum on. On both sides, e-brake pushes top of right shoe upward and outward. I always thought both left and right shoe should push upward/outward. No dings, dents, grooves in stamped pads...still, before installing new shoes, I cleaned backing plates up with wire brush, vacuumed them clean and touched stamped pads up with a grinder but really didn't even need to. I should also note that the hydraulic brakes work well...all 4 wheels stop properly when brake pedal is depressed and release properly when brake pedal is released.

I took some photos today. I am stumped as to why passenger side e-brake does not release. Makes no sense.

e-brake foot brake depressed

E-brake foot brake released. Top cable is passenger side. Lower cable is driver side. As you can see, top cable is not pulling back as much as driver side

Passenger side shoes.

Passenger side. e-brake released...notice e-brake lever position

Passenger side. After I pushed back e-brake lever by hand.

After I pushed e-brake lever by hand...notice upper and lower cables are even now.

 

[Big_John]

Lower spring to the adjuster is in the wrong hole. It should be moved up to the hole in the shoe nearer to the retainer.

 

[furyfever]

Lower spring to the adjuster is in the wrong hole. It should be moved up to the hole in the shoe nearer to the retainer.

I just checked all my "before" photos for both sides. That's the way the previous mechanic assembled it, so I repeated it. "Monkey see monkey do!" Not sure if that will make any difference in the way the passenger side e-brake cable will retract but I'll certainly give it a try. Thanks John...

 

[MYSINBIN]

Lower spring to the adjuster is in the wrong hole. It should be moved up to the hole in the shoe nearer to the retainer.

furyfever, check this against the service manual to be sure everything is correctly located. Or at least check the other side for comparison.

Your description of the shoe actuation sounds correct. The E-brake arm pivots on the rear shoe at the top, so there's no actuating force there.

To clarify for me, have you disconnected the pass. cable from the main cable connection and actuated it by hand? A pair of vise grips on the cable end will work, just be careful not to scar the end with the tool. You will probably need a helper for this. And it may uncover the binding point.

My speculation at this point is that there is something obstructing the E-brake arm. Maybe getting caught on part of the self adjusting parts?

Have you tried pushing on the shoe to get it to release instead of manipulating the cable? Is it possible that the shoe is traveling out past the pad it rests on and then the E-brake cable spring is not strong enough to get it to release? (It's been awhile since I actually looked at this area, so I'm guessing if this is even possible here)

Another test idea that requires yet another disassembly/reassembly:

Eliminate the cable from the equation. Remove the pass. cable and substitute a piece of wire or even use just the old cable with the spring and sheath removed. Then actuate by hand with the vise grips and see if it still binds. If it doesn't, then closer inspection is needed at all of the cable mounting points on the backing plate and E-brake parts.

The fact that both the original cable and the new one bind/hang up, would lead me to believe that the issue is somewhere on the backing plate and actuating arm.

Whatever you do, don't give up. We will figure it out.

And when we do, it will seem like it was screaming at you the whole time.

John

 

[Big_John]

furyfever, check this against the service manual to be sure everything is correctly located.

I agree 100% and that is the best advice you can get. Here's a pic from a FSM.

I don't know if this will make a difference or not. It couldn't hurt and it will increase the tension a bit.

 

[furyfever]

Lower spring to the adjuster is in the wrong hole. It should be moved up to the hole in the shoe nearer to the retainer.

I 'd agree with you if I had the parts shown in the FSM...but after doing some research in my Chilton's manual (1968-1975) I have Ford parts in my brakes...Hmm

 

[furyfever]

furyfever, check this against the service manual to be sure everything is correctly located. Or at least check the other side for comparison.

Your description of the shoe actuation sounds correct. The E-brake arm pivots on the rear shoe at the top, so there's no actuating force there.

To clarify for me, have you disconnected the pass. cable from the main cable connection and actuated it by hand? A pair of vise grips on the cable end will work, just be careful not to scar the end with the tool. You will probably need a helper for this. And it may uncover the binding point.

My speculation at this point is that there is something obstructing the E-brake arm. Maybe getting caught on part of the self adjusting parts?

Have you tried pushing on the shoe to get it to release instead of manipulating the cable? Is it possible that the shoe is traveling out past the pad it rests on and then the E-brake cable spring is not strong enough to get it to release? (It's been awhile since I actually looked at this area, so I'm guessing if this is even possible here)

Another test idea that requires yet another disassembly/reassembly:

Eliminate the cable from the equation. Remove the pass. cable and substitute a piece of wire or even use just the old cable with the spring and sheath removed. Then actuate by hand with the vise grips and see if it still binds. If it doesn't, then closer inspection is needed at all of the cable mounting points on the backing plate and E-brake parts.

The fact that both the original cable and the new one bind/hang up, would lead me to believe that the issue is somewhere on the backing plate and actuating arm.

Whatever you do, don't give up. We will figure it out.

And when we do, it will seem like it was screaming at you the whole time.

John

You given me quite a lot to think about thanks so much John...it's looking like I have Ford parts in my brakes...Hmmm