Electronic ignition for 67 Newport

[Big_John]

I didn't know MSD had a Mopar specific box.

They sold the MSD-7C through Direct Connection. That was their race box.

I brushed against a plug wire with one hand while my other wrist was against a hood pin while timing the engine with an old style light. It lit me up like you would not believe... Every muscle in my chest and arms hurt. That was 45 years ago... I would bet if I did that today, it would kill me.

 

[Gerald Morris]

When I put the MP kit on my '67 Newport, I also bought a base-level MSD control box, the old MSD 5C. The "5" was their entry level multi-spark control box. The "C" meant it had the Chrysler-specific plug on it. I found an electrically-good mounting location behind the lh frt fender extension. Spliced-in wiring that ran with the OEM harness to the rear of the fender, past the voltage regulator, across the cowl, then down toward the distributor.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

I've been mulling over getting one of the old MSD 5 boxes and trying it on Gertrude. She's running VERY nicely with the simple stock ignition I have, BUT, to better burn off the CO and HC in my exhaust gasses, I might be compelled to adopt some CD ignition in the future. Gertie passed on the first, untuned run this summer though!

 

[Toolmanmike]

I've been mulling over getting one of the old MSD 5 boxes and trying it on Gertrude. She's running VERY nicely with the simple stock ignition I have, BUT, to better burn off the CO and HC in my exhaust gasses, I might be compelled to adopt some CD ignition in the future. Gertie passed on the first, untuned run this summer though!

I see Summit has a CD/Multi Spark ignition. Summit Racing SUM-850610 Summit Racing™ Multi-Spark Digital Capacitive Discharge Ignitions | Summit Racing They have the full MSD line as well.

 

[Turboomni]

I used to have a Heathkit CP-1060 capacitive discharge ignition I built back in the day. you could turn it on or off with the red button as I remember. I frankly didn't notice any difference when on or off.

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[Toolmanmike]

I used to have a Heathkit CP-1060 capacitive discharge ignition I built back in the day. you could turn it on or off with the red button as I remember. I frankly didn't notice any difference when on or off.

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CD isn't too much different than a good dual point but multispark makes a difference.

 

[Turboomni]

I would think multispark could really help with less than ideal fuel mixture ,but if the fuel mix was close to ideal would it still improve anything? Do they multispark at high rpms too or is there a rpm cutoff.

 

[Toolmanmike]

I would think multispark could really help with less than ideal fuel mixture ,but if the fuel mix was close to ideal would it still improve anything? Do they multispark at high rpms too or is there a rpm cutoff.

Usually multispark until 3000 rpm.

 

[CBODY67]

Seems iike I saw that answer in an old MSD FAQ somewhere? That past 3000rpm, the multi-spark was not needed or produced no benefits? Yet it also seems that Jacobs used to advertise their unit multi-sparked to 6000rpm?

It's one thing to have a multi-spark system, but nobody talks about the FREQUENCY of the multi-spark. Past 3000repm, how many sparks might occur in the stated 20 degrees of crank rotation, which could also mean that "combustion" is happening well after TDC?

David Vizard has some interesting comments on combustion dynamics. About how the "fire" spreads across the combustion chamber in milliseconds, with one igniting spark. If the MSD really cleaned up emissions as we perceive it might, might some OEM have incorporated that technology into their ignition systems by now? Or is their incorporation of the "fine wire electrode" spark plugs (from NGK) with a specific bore diameter limit a better contribution to combustion efficiency?

To me, where multi-strike ignitions would help is with an engine which is over-cammed with an intake manifold which is "too big" as to ports. Such that lower rpm (1000rpm or so) idle quality and power characteristics made it marginally-drivable on the street. As a former friend's '69 Z/28 302 with the optional Chevy cam in it and everything else stock. Drop the clutch at 2800rpm and it would pretty much kill the engine, but at 3000rpm, it would burn the back tires.

Recently, a purveyor of multi-strike ignition systems recommended that only normal-sized electrode spark plugs be used with their systems. Allegedly, the fine wire plugs can "overheat" more quickly and cause durability issues for themselves? BTAIM

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[halifaxhops]

Throw them here. I actually collect them.
Show us some odd ignitions from the past

 

[Toolmanmike]

It would be good to hear from some members that have installed a multi spark set up and noticed a difference in performance and/or mileage.

 

[Gerald Morris]

I would think multispark could really help with less than ideal fuel mixture ,but if the fuel mix was close to ideal would it still improve anything? Do they multispark at high rpms too or is there a rpm cutoff.

There is a decreasing benefit as rotational velocity increases, At 6000 rpm, there isn't time for more than 1 spark. This is when a high voltage for a larger spark gap becomes the dominant advantage to CD over inductive charge storage.

 

[Gerald Morris]

It would be good to hear from some members that have installed a multi spark set up and noticed a difference in performance and/or mileage.

Subsidize a system for moi and we'll happily try it, take data, and report on it for the Forum!

 

[Big_John]

It would be good to hear from some members that have installed a multi spark set up and noticed a difference in performance and/or mileage.

I installed one in my A12 Roadrunner years ago.

The issue was that I would have to move the car around in the driveway/garage often without taking it for a drive. It was jetted a little fat and that didn't help. I wouldn't say the plugs fouled, but they would get a little dark and the car was hard to start. I went to the MSD and those problems never happened again. I gapped the plugs to .055" and ran it with the stock dual point. When I sold the car, the next owner put in a Mopar Perf distributor and ECU and he asked me about the MSD. He came back to me saying how much better it ran with the MSD.

The cool thing about using the dual point with the MSD, the points never burnt. I replaced them when I put the MSD in and drove that car thousands of miles and never had to change the points. I think I adjusted the gap once over that time. With the MSD, the points don't carry the amount of current that the conventional ignition does.

Mileage? Who knows? I was happy to get double digits. Drivability? Yep, much better starting.

Also used an MSD-7 with the car I dragged 40 years ago. We stopped needing to run warm up plugs once I started using the MSD.

Put an MSD on my AMC Jeep Wagoneer when the Ford based ignition crapped out. Again, great starting, although I never noted any improvement in mileage.

I have an MSD sitting on my shelf that was given to me. I was told it had an intermittent problem, but I suspect it was something else, like wiring or coil. I've been thinking about using with my 300L and again, using the dual point to trigger it.

 

[CBODY67]

When I did the MP kit on my '67 Newport back in the 1990s, with my then-NOS MSC-5C, I did it to get away from the worn breaker cam on the distributors I had had in the 383. The OEM distributor and one for a 440-6bbl (with the MP adapter) had differing lobe heights (which I measured with my dial indicator), so I wanted something more consistent (in all respects). So the MP kit happened.

Unfortunately, no really significant improvement, as to power, throttle response, or starting. Chrysler made no issues about the voltage regulator, nor did MSD, so the OEM Chrysler unit is what's on it. Now, I was not driving the car daily or driving it far enough to get things up to temp for an hour or so, so no testing of the "hot re-start" situation.

In reality, it might not have made a lot of difference, BUT knowing it's as good as it can be counts for something, to me. Plus that the apparent variances of the breaker cam dwell on each cylinder is gone, although we never worried about those things in earlier times. Just picked one and that's what was used to set the points.

The car already had NGK V-Power plugs gapped to about .040", so no experimentation there. OEM coil, too.

The way I installed the MSD box, not an easy way to remove it or put something else in its place, all things considered. But using the factory Chrysler connection, I might change it to a normal control box, at some undetermined time in the future. I can upgrade the voltage regulator easily, though.

 

[Gerald Morris]

....
Recently, a purveyor of multi-strike ignition systems recommended that only normal-sized electrode spark plugs be used with their systems. Allegedly, the fine wire plugs can "overheat" more quickly and cause durability issues for themselves? BTAIM

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

This is very credible. Prolonged discharge over a fine conductor may well oxidize it. While I'm very happy with my primitive ignition most of the time, a prolonged spark likely WOULD do my ride good, given how 90% of the time, that engine runs under 3000 rpm. Am searching for NOS CD units now. Found an old Mallory still in wraps.....

I installed one in my A12 Roadrunner years ago.

The issue was that I would have to move the car around in the driveway/garage often without taking it for a drive. It was jetted a little fat and that didn't help. I wouldn't say the plugs fouled, but they would get a little dark and the car was hard to start. I went to the MSD and those problems never happened again. I gapped the plugs to .055" and ran it with the stock dual point. When I sold the car, the next owner put in a Mopar Perf distributor and ECU and he asked me about the MSD. He came back to me saying how much better it ran with the MSD.

The cool thing about using the dual point with the MSD, the points never burnt. I replaced them when I put the MSD in and drove that car thousands of miles and never had to change the points. I think I adjusted the gap once over that time. With the MSD, the points don't carry the amount of current that the conventional ignition does.

Mileage? Who knows? I was happy to get double digits. Drivability? Yep, much better starting.

Also used an MSD-7 with the car I dragged 40 years ago. We stopped needing to run warm up plugs once I started using the MSD.

Put an MSD on my AMC Jeep Wagoneer when the Ford based ignition crapped out. Again, great starting, although I never noted any improvement in mileage.

I have an MSD sitting on my shelf that was given to me. I was told it had an intermittent problem, but I suspect it was something else, like wiring or coil. I've been thinking about using with my 300L and again, using the dual point to trigger it.

MSD looks VERY appealing, if I can score a good deal on one. I see on the older stuff dual BJ power transistors, which is what I would expect of 50 yr old electronics. The crap shoot on such would be the capacitors. Are all the modern units MOSFET powered?

 

[CBODY67]

Good heavens, I used to know what MOSFET meant, when it first came out on stereo equipment. AND why it was better.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Good heavens, I used to know what MOSFET meant, when it first came out on stereo equipment. AND why it was better.

Metallic Oxide Semiconductive Field Effect Transistor. Better because no actual current FLOWS directly through it! One uses voltage and charge deposition to control and induce currents. The Bipolar Junction actually relies on current FLOW, being controlled by the potential of the base, which controls how much charge flows from the collector out the emitter. BJTs can age and die too, but FETs are more prone to it under adverse conditions. BUT, one can make them a LOT smaller, then cascade them in gigantic circuits to assure redundancy and performance! This, and greater efficiency from not requiring any actual flow, makes the FET vastly more efficient.

 

[Darter6]

I see Summit has a CD/Multi Spark ignition.

I used one of the summit boxes in a 63 valiant slant six.
It retained the points distributor as it carried no current and only was a switching devise. Worked of me !

 

[Scoopy G]

Check parts for sale on this forum, there's a kit for sale.

 

[carrman]

FBO Ignition - Home of the HRR688

Been using this ignition and a custom curved distributor from these follks in the Newport. Love it.