Headers. Why?

[polara71]

FYI... I have a feeling many old guys like me still look at Honda, though made here is a foreign company of which I have no respect for

 

[Big_John]

Ferrari. Countach. Lambo. Porsche. Not American.
Still want to check out the Mustang tho.

Max Wedge and Hemi

America.... **** yea!

 

[furyus 67]

Ya know come to think of it, my 99 jeep cherokee had a factory header. Yup factory. Jeep at that!!! Merican made. Dont know why, i just know the other jeep guys where jealous!!

 

[bajajoaquin]

Totally. I get that. It was more for effect.

No bones about an R-Code Galaxie, though!

(that was to Polara 71, but I didn't post it until two others had come in)

 

[bajajoaquin]

Max Wedge and Hemi

America.... **** yea!

So, I'm not fully up on the exact years for everything, but it looks like the Max Wedge was a '64 offering in the Sport Fury, is that right? So have we found a factory C-Body with headers?

 

[Big blubber]

:yes_no:

**** off you sorry piece of ****.

 

[Big blubber]

Joey's probably gonna give me some vacation time now.
See you, whenever. :sigh:

Your new forum place

 

[72Fury]

Probably the reason why so many US cars had cast iron manifolds, is that it was easy to add cubic inches, and we could cast something probably faster than bend tubes. Producing the metal was never a problem as well. Another thought is some of Europe had displacement tax rules and a tighter or poor economy, so they were forced into more volumetrically efficient designs.

 

[65Fury440]

So, I'm not fully up on the exact years for everything, but it looks like the Max Wedge was a '64 offering in the Sport Fury, is that right? So have we found a factory C-Body with headers?

A 64 Fury was a B body, but, shows Ma used headers to some level when performance counted.

 

[bajajoaquin]

(Darn! Took too long to respond again! This is in reply to Big Blubber's post) I hope that's not the case. I like to poke at Stan when he makes ridiculous assertions, but that doesn't mean I think he should be banned, or that I don't think that he doesn't have a lot to offer and most of it constructive. Probably a higher percentage than me.

Probably the best comment I've ever read on this form came from him. Basically, when someone new comes on and asks about some gee-whiz mod, he says, "is your headliner torn? Fix that first." Right-friggin-on.

But back to headers.

I was looking up articles on dyno tests between manifolds, shorty headers, and long-tube headers because of the post above that said there was "documented" evidence that Shorty headers don't work. I didn't find that. In fact, most of the tests I read showed significant increases in torque over manifolds with both shorty and long-tube headers, but it was tough to tease out how those would work on heavy cars with torque-biased engines. (The closest I found was on a Chevy Tahoe, but they didn't do pulls below about 3200 rpm.)

Smaller-diameter head pipes favor high velocity exhaust gasses at lower RPM. That favors low-rpm torque. Long-tube headers tend to have scavenging effects at lower RPM, also favoring torque. That implies that, fitment issues aside, a small-diameter header with long tubes would be the most torque-producing design. Small shorties should be an improvement over HP manifolds. And obviously HP manifolds are an improvement because the gasses have longer-radius corners to turn than logs.

So if anyone has links to or scans of dyno tests between manifolds, shorties and long tubes?

 

[tallhair]

Not factory but a C body with headers

 

[70bigblockdodge]

There was a thread on fbbo done by IQ52, he uses hey old guy on here, runs a engine shop has a dyno. Ran a super low compression 440 (like 7.7:1) only gained 5 horsepower with HP manifolds over stock 64 logs, then gained another 26 over HP manifolds with headers all before 5000 rpm. Maybe Brian can find and post a link, I am terrible at that and can't do it from my phone.

 

[tallhair]

Yeah I know that thread .. I'll post a link

 

[tallhair]

Here it is. I think it's the one you are talking about


Here it is http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?58687-Iron-head-test-starting-on-78-440

This one is a subsequent post

Pop's 440 is near ready to dyno.
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?64775-Pop-s-440-is-near-ready-to-dyno

 

[70bigblockdodge]

No that's not it it was his about head testing, I'll go look

Yeah the first one.

 

[tallhair]

So, here is our first dyno pull with a 1972 440, .040" overbore for 448 ci, cast pistons 7.45:1 compression, cast crankshaft, stock 906 iron heads, 1967 600 cfm Carter 4bbl, 1972 factory cast iron intake, Summit Racing SUM-6400 camshaft 214/224 @ .050 .444"/.466" lift 112 LS 106 ICL, 1964 factory cast iron exhaust manifolds.

Are you laughing at the exhaust choice? You haven't seen what the factory HP manifolds do! They come next.

RPM..................TQ.................HP

2500................414...............197
2600................402...............199
2700................403...............207
2800................402...............215
2900................399...............220
3000................403...............230
3100................397...............235
3200................399...............243
3300................399...............251
3400................391...............253
3500................385...............257
3600................380...............261
3700................371...............262
3800................365...............264
3900................358...............266
4000................350...............266
4100................348...............271
4200................336...............268
4300................332...............272
4400................323...............271
4500................313...............268
4600................304...............266
4700................295...............264
4800................283...............259
4900................267...............249
5000................260...............248
5100................249...............241
5200................231...............229
5300................225...............227
5400................214...............220
5500................204...............214

Mind you, this is with a fresh valve job and new rings. So now you know, roughly, what your power would be like if you bought a low mile motorhome or Chrysler New Yorker 440 from 1972-1978 and plunked it in your B Body.

IS there ANYTHING I can bolt on to help this pig? What difference will it really make?

Hold on, as I said, the first thing we try is HP exhaust manifolds.

HP, thats High Performance you know, they gotta be good! Right?

 

[tallhair]

Originally Posted by 67Satty
I'm guessing the "HP" manifolds didn't help at all?



Lets put them on.

RPM......................TQ...................HP

2500....................413.................196
2600....................405.................200
2700....................398.................205
2800....................403.................215
2900....................400.................221
3000....................402.................230
3100....................401.................236
3200....................401.................244
3300....................401.................252
3400....................394.................255
3500....................386.................257
3600....................386.................265
3700....................374.................264
3800....................372.................269
3900....................360.................267
4000....................354.................269
4100....................353.................276
4200....................344.................275
4300....................337.................276
4400....................323.................270
4500....................310.................265
4600....................301.................264
4700....................289.................258
4800....................274.................250
4900....................268.................250
5000....................250.................238
5100....................249.................241
5200....................236.................233
5300....................220.................222
5400....................210.................216
5500....................198.................207

You judge.

Me, I'm buying headers, even a $150 pair will give way more performance. We have a cheap set but weren't able to set up the dyno this time for the ball connectors they have. So the next pull will be with our dyno headers. Step headers, 1-3/4 X 1-7/8 X 2 X 3" collector.

 

[tallhair]

No that's not it it was his about head testing, I'll go look

I edited it's above

 

[tallhair]

Let me see if I can line the up

[TABLE="width: 512"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]LOGS[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]HP manifolds[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]RPM..................TQ.................HP[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]RPM......................TQ...................HP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]2500................414...............197[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]2500....................413.................196[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]2600................402...............199[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]2600....................405.................200[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]2700................403...............207[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]2700....................398.................205[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]2800................402...............215[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]2800....................403.................215[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]2900................399...............220[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]2900....................400.................221[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3000................403...............230[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3000....................402.................230[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3100................397...............235[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3100....................401.................236[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3200................399...............243[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3200....................401.................244[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3300................399...............251[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3300....................401.................252[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3400................391...............253[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3400....................394.................255[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3500................385...............257[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3500....................386.................257[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3600................380...............261[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3600....................386.................265[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3700................371...............262[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3700....................374.................264[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3800................365...............264[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3800....................372.................269[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3900................358...............266[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]3900....................360.................267[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4000................350...............266[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4000....................354.................269[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4100................348...............271[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4100....................353.................276[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4200................336...............268[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4200....................344.................275[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4300................332...............272[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4300....................337.................276[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4400................323...............271[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4400....................323.................270[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4500................313...............268[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4500....................310.................265[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4600................304...............266[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4600....................301.................264[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4700................295...............264[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4700....................289.................258[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4800................283...............259[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4800....................274.................250[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4900................267...............249[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]4900....................268.................250[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]5000................260...............248[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]5000....................250.................238[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]5100................249...............241[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]5100....................249.................241[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]5200................231...............229[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]5200....................236.................233[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]5300................225...............227[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]5300....................220.................222[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]5400................214...............220[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]5400....................210.................216[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]5500................204...............214[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]5500....................198.................207[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[bajajoaquin]

Well shee-it. Maybe Schumacker tri-ys are the way to go!