Ignition Switch?

[Fishfan]

A couple of weeks ago I had starting problems. Turned out the MSD distributor had gone bad. Was under warranty and the guys at the shop replaced it for free. Everything was running fine until today.

I keep the car at my office garage, two blocks from where I live. I started it and began to make my way toward the exit gate when I realized that I had left my wallet at home and without my card key I wouldn't be able to get out of the garage. So I parked the car and walked home to get the wallet.

When I returned, car would not start. No starter activity. No dimming of lights.

I had replaced the ignition switch when I was trying to eliminate possible causes for my last "non-starter" episode. I wonder if the new one failed. I'm sure I have the one I took out of the car somewhere but can't find it.

Any thoughts? What are symptoms of a faulty ignition switch? What works and doesn't work? Oil pressure lamp does light up and radio works. Just not a peep from the starter motor.

 

[Big_John]

Is the car in park?

 

[polara71]

Good point John, sounds like a silly response but SO many times that has happened to me, not quite in P or N enough

 

[Davea Lux]

Be sure you battery cables are clean. Next, rap the starter solenoid with a screwdriver or whatever you have handy, these solenoids were notorious for sticking.

Dave

 

[Fishfan]

Is the car in park?

In park and in neutral. Same result. Now what I find curious is that car is shifting with and without key in the ignition. I can't remember for sure but I thought it was supposed to stay locked in park without the key in ignition. I know that in later model cars with the ignition switch in the steering column sometimes the key would get captured and you had to jiggle the steering wheel a bit to get it out. Maybe something is going on here with my shifter?

 

[Fishfan]

Good point John, sounds like a silly response but SO many times that has happened to me, not quite in P or N enough

When I get back to it tomorrow I'll fiddle with the shifter again.

 

[Davea Lux]

In park and in neutral. Same result. Now what I find curious is that car is shifting with and without key in the ignition. I can't remember for sure but I thought it was supposed to stay locked in park without the key in ignition. I know that in later model cars with the ignition switch in the steering column sometimes the key would get captured and you had to jiggle the steering wheel a bit to get it out. Maybe something is going on here with my shifter?

You may have a bad neutral safety switch.

Dave

 

[Fishfan]

You may have a bad neutral safety switch.

Dave

Where on the car will I find it? And where in the world will I find a replacement?

 

[jct]

on the transmission with one wire going to it

 

[Wollfen]

You will find the switch right next to the gear selector on the transmission, I am assuming yours is a three pin switch, check the link.
Mopar 69 70 71 72 73 74 Charger / Roadrunner Neutral Safety Switch NEW | eBay

 

[CBODY67]

Earlier ones were single wire, later ones were three wire. There probably will be some atf behind the switch (below fluid level), so it can be a little messy and a suitable drain pan can be helpful (even some of the aluminum pans on the kitchen asile at the grocery store, possibly). You can strain and pour the fluid which comes out back into the trans with a suitable funnel (and holding your mouth right). Don't forget the floor jack and jackstands!

Keep us posted . . .
CBODY67

 

[Fishfan]

You will find the switch right next to the gear selector on the transmission, I am assuming yours is a three pin switch, check the link.
Mopar 69 70 71 72 73 74 Charger / Roadrunner Neutral Safety Switch NEW | eBay

It's gonna be the one wire kind. My car is a 66. Ugh. Doesn't seem like a simple job.

 

[polara71]

It is REAL easy

 

[Fishfan]

Is there an easy way to temporarily bypass for purposes of diagnosing and to buy time for part to get to me?

 

[Big_John]

I should not have said "park" as that is leading you down some other road that involves changing a neutral switch without doing any diagnostics.

First, to get it out of the way... Here's how to check the neutral switch... Put the car in park. It does not need any power. Look at the starter relay. There's a wire coming up from the transmission, it should be brown. Disconnect that from the relay (it pulls off) and using a DMM, see if it has continuity to ground. One probe in the end of the connector and one to a good ground (the battery is right there). If no continuity, the NSS is bad, but I doubt if that's the issue. If it checks OK, plug it back in and stop worrying about it for now. If not, you can make a jumper wire from ground to the starter relay and that will let you carefully start the car (foot firmly on brake etc.)

But... Let's do some other diagnostics before you start throwing parts at it.

There are 5 components left in the starting circuit to check. Battery, wiring, switch, starter, and starter relay.

Since you have the DMM, check the battery voltage.

Now look at the starter relay again. Ignition off. Using an old screwdriver or even just a quarter, you want to touch it to the 2 screw terminals. One is the battery connection and the other is the wire that runs to the starter solenoid. Expect a spark... If the starter turns over the engine, that eliminates the starter from the list. If it doesn't turn the enginne over, that points to the starter or the connection(s) to the starter being bad.

If the starter turns over, you now have one of 3 possibilities. A bad starter relay, bad wiring, or a bad ignition switch.

Usually, I would bet on the starter relay at this point, but since you installed a new ignition switch recently that may be the issue.

At the starter relay, disconnect the wire from the ignition switch. It should be yellow. Set your DMM to voltage and put one probe in the connector and one to ground. You should have voltage when you twist the key to "start". If you do, it's the starter relay and they do fail. If you don't, it's the wiring or the ignition switch.

At this point, since you have the old ignition switch, it's probably easiest to swap the switches and try it. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a matter of the connector on the switch not seated fully when it was swapped either.

Now you've gone through the starting system....

If the starter is bad, there's not much except to change the starter... The connections to the starter do loosen though... I've experienced the battery cable pulling apart a couple times and it's worth checking before you buy a starter. It does involve crawling under the car.

If the relay or something else is bad, and you are stuck in the garage again, you should be able to start the car. Turn the ignition on and jumper the relay with the quarter like before. Release the jumper as when it fires. You might need someone helping you to work the gas pedal to keep it running.

 

[Big_John]

And just to clarify... I suggested checking "park" because of the circumstances.... Forgot your wallet etc. It's something that could happen if you are rattled and in a hurry.

In a '66, the shifter doesn't lock with the ignition switch. 1970 was the first year for that.

 

[Fishfan]

And just to clarify... I suggested checking "park" because of the circumstances.... Forgot your wallet etc. It's something that could happen if you are rattled and in a hurry.

In a '66, the shifter doesn't lock with the ignition switch. 1970 was the first year for that.

Thanks Big John. Will do all of that testing tonight and report back tomorrow. You guys are the best.

 

[65sporty]

Go John Go, no other input needed, John gave a great lesson.

 

[Fishfan]

Turns out I had incorrectly installed the ignition switch. Long story. But Big_John's advice was crucial to discovering the problem. Everything is right with the world. Thanks.